[atul.sxna]

Banning a business is not a solution unless established that the business in-principle is promoting misdeeds.

Uber's mistake is that it did not run thorough background checks. A very harsh penalty should be imposed, no doubt. However, banning the service altogether and thinking that the roads will be safer now is childish.

The moot issue is not the web based cab services, it's the harsh penalty for rapists which seem to be lacking in our current system. There is no deterrent for people to even think twice before committing such heinous crimes.

Meru for example, has GPS in-built into their cars and is not dependent on the driver's cellphones to track the cabs. Lets make measures like these along with stricter background checks mandatory rather than banning services.

[vasudeva]

How pompous and arrogant of Uber.
Earlier they blamed RBI for forcing them to implement payment authentication system.
Then after this case, they started blaming the Govt's commercial transportation licensing program.

Now we get an email where one part says:

Third, we will also bring in our global best practices where it would enhance our India safety efforts.

Does that mean that these best practices were not there earlier in India.

[Turbo_Charger]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

An organization mades a lapse. A serious lapse. It should be fined. Fine it 10,000 crorers.
But you don't ban an idea itself.

Fine Uber, Fina Ola, Fine all those who are breaking rules. But if you believe that this ban on all app based services is going to help in the safety of people.

No one is banning the idea itself. Don't think the government is keen on banning the app based/aggregator model itself, if the companies are willing to follow the rules and not try to circumvent them why would the government ban these companies ? The ban is temporary in nature because the firm(s) were not following the rules and laws (both for cab regulations and tax rules). The Delhi Transport Commissioner has been on record to say that the ban is not because of the incident. As far as fines are concerned, Uber was not even registered in India and was operating through the Netherlands subsidiary, so how can you fine someone who is not even registered in India ? I don't think India has jurisdiction to fine a company in Netherlands and I think Uber has shown by their past record that they are not eager to pay any fine imposed on them anywhere in the world. So what should the government had done : beg Uber to listen to them & follow the rules and the law or request them to pay the fine ?

Uber offers cab services to nearly 1,200 cab operators in top 10 Indian cities. Uber does not have any presence in India and lends only tech support to its US based parent company but it has till date not paid a single penny by way of service tax in India when cab services in India are supposed to be taxed at the rate of 12%.

“We have sent a tax enquiry to Uber Inc. So far, they have not paid us a single penny in taxes. We have not sent them a demand notice as they don’t have an office in the country, but are operating through their Netherlands arm,” Mumbai service tax commissioner S.K. Solanki said.

I just want to reiterate that I'm not against Uber, Ola or any other Company per se, but they should follow all the guidelines, pay the taxes and work under the law of India. Uber instead is behaving like a MNC which thinks India is a banana republic and does not want to follow the rules & law or wants to pay the taxes. Earlier they were blaming the RBI, now they are blaming the government, yet this mess that they find themselves in, is of their own making. Their whole operation has been shown to be very opaque and shadowy in nature, they need to be more transparent for the benefit of consumers, government and other stakeholders. By avoiding paying the taxes they get an unjust benefit which warps the level playing field putting the competition at an undue disadvantage. Just because they are self claimed technology company doesn't give them or anyone a right to not pay taxes or not follow the rules/law. I hope Uber/Ola/others comply with the rules, pay their taxes and we see them zipping on our roads soon.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

However, if a cabbie clears all these checks and then still commits a crime, uber has limited culpability in that case. Here they clearly messed up.

Fully agree.

Edit :

Also I want to add that Uber have admitted that they have not done verification of a single driver out of the 4000 that they employed, so that could be also the reason for suspension of operations. Imagine an airline saying that they have not verified a single pilot that they hired ! The whole airplane fleet will be grounded pending investigation for preventing any risk to any passenger.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Also, very soon you may have the cabbies of these organisations up in arms since they will be out of work.

As predicted on the 10th by me (post 421) it happened today.

Also, new thing has emerged. It seems that Delhi is not part of India, otherwise why do operators with an All India Permit need another one (from Delhi authorities) to operate in Delhi.

[masin4]

Looks like the services are on hold in Bangalore cant see a single cab on taxi for sure or uber ,ola autos are available but no cars

[Captain Slow]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

These lines sum up the entire debacle!

The structure by which Uber, Ola operated was never bad. And any day the app based would be safer than the black/yellow top cabbies. Do they even have GPS fitted on them??

And your last line nailed the whole fiasco. It's infact the opposite. The govt. was never getting any tax % out of Uber, Ola or Taxi4sure. Since the laws were archaic, the app based firms were able to bypass the tax levy. All the more reason to find another way to throw the book at them

very true! Sad way things work here.
If you under the scanner and caught doing something wrong they will find everything wrong with you.
Else its business as usual. 1000s of Autos and cabbies run around the country there was no mention of any taxes ? Meru has been here for a while have they paid any tax? Other than the RTO road tax ?

[i74js]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

As predicted on the 10th by me (post 421) it happened today.

Also, new thing has emerged. It seems that Delhi is not part of India, otherwise why do operators with an All India Permit need another one (from Delhi authorities) to operate in Delhi.

The transport department of NCT mandates usage of CNG for commercial vehicles. Thus for all commercial travel with point or origin and destination being Delhi should be operated by CNG.

Uber and several other App based operators are defaulting on this rule by letting public board diesel cabs for travel within Delhi.

Hope this helps !

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by i74js

The transport department of NCT mandates usage of CNG for commercial vehicles. Thus for all commercial travel with point or origin and destination being Delhi should be operated by CNG.

Uber and several other App based operators are defaulting on this rule by letting public board diesel cabs for travel within Delhi!

This is completely incorrect. I use hired cars (with Yellow Taxi Plates) whenever I am in Delhi from reputed agencies like Avis and Fab Cars. None of them use CNG. CNG is mandated only for Radio Taxis and Kali Peelis - not for hired cars. Uber connects to hired cars.

[i74js]

Originally Posted by Hayek

This is completely incorrect. I use hired cars (with Yellow Taxi Plates) whenever I am in Delhi from reputed agencies like Avis and Fab Cars. None of them use CNG. CNG is mandated only for Radio Taxis and Kali Peelis - not for hired cars. Uber connects to hired cars.

Apologies but FAB and AVIS got classified under luxury category with DLZ registration and not DLT or DLY. They can run on diesel as they have plying permits of a minimum of 3 neighboring states beyond Delhi. Even after obtaining a DLZ registration, it is not correct of such service providers to use these cabs for airport runs.

More so the transport department of NCT has to comply to the Supreme Court directive of usage of CNG for public transport within city limits.

Please wait and watch; the hole is too deep !

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by i74js

More so the transport department of NCT has to comply to the Supreme Court directive of usage of CNG for public transport within city limits.

Is it NCT or Delhi city. Ola and Uber connect Gurgaon as well, and I suspect NOIDA and maybe Faridabad may also be on the networks.

If they have an entry tax on commercial vehicles entering Delhi then they cannot force the same rules. Every Time a cab goes from Gurgaon to Delhi it has to pay this tax.

[rev_rohit]

Banning films, or a particular taxi service is just a knee jerk reaction by the government, and is just an eyewash, by doing so government just tries to show that they are serious about that particular incidence and have done enough to prevent such events in future.
Are these efforts effective in preventing or even reducing crime rates?

I would like to add different point to the discussion :
There is a very much ignored culprit "ALCOHOL" hidden behind all the major crimes (not particularly behind this uber case).
There is a direct relationship between alcohol and crime(for both victims and perpetrators). There have been lots and lots of studies relating crime and alcohol consumption.
For example : USA has reduced crime by increasing tax on alcohol, Brazil has reduced crime by banning pubs and bars after 8 pm, also Brazil has banned alcohol in stadiums to curb football related violence. Brazil has even banned alcohol related advertisements from 8 pm onwards.
All these studies and examples show that there is a relation between alcohol and crime.

Secondly : Punishment itself should be a strong deterrent for the potential criminals. Law enforcement should be strong that no one should take law for granted.
We need to go deep into the basics of crime psychology and implement measures to nip the crime in the bud only.

[noopster]

Took Uber for a long ride Mumbai yesterday. 36 km came to Rs 393 only. That is about 11/km. This was UberGo and I got a nice clean air conditioned Indica eV2 petrol/CNG vehicle.

Return was 614 by non AC black and yellow for exactly same route. I couldn't fire up the Uber app because of network issues. Rs 26/km.

Driver was saying lot of cabbies have stopped working with Uber since the controversy. Was lamenting that since Uber treats his ilk well and is a hit with the customer. I assured him that the model is here to stay and that sooner or later the govt would have to accept it and redraft laws to factor it in.

[drmohitg]

How is Uber able to keep there prices so drastically low compared to the regular black and yellow taxies? Is it just an attempt to accumulate losses in order to break the market or are the regular taxi wallahs fleecing us with such a huge margin ( almost more than double for the same journey).

[Hayek]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

How is Uber able to keep there prices so drastically low compared to the regular black and yellow taxies? Is it just an attempt to accumulate losses in order to break the market or are the regular taxi wallahs fleecing us with such a huge margin.

Uber is working with loss leader fares right now - it gives minimum guarantees to drivers and absorbs the various discounts in its fares as marketing cost.

But it is also an inherently more efficient model. The typical Bombay Kaali Peeli driver spends most of his day waiting at stands, and also goes in for several short haul routes. Because of the Rs. 200 minimum fare (on Uber Black, other variants are slightly cheaper), people call for Uber only for long haul routes. Also, because of the relatively small fleet and the use of technology to find the customer instead of roaming streets looking for her, utilisation is very high.The same applies for Radio Cabs like Meru, which are cheaper than the Kaali Peelis if you consider their air conditioned nature and superior fleet.

An added advantage is that most of the Uber cars are tourist taxis - they recover their base cost through full day hires and sign on to Uber on their downtime - so they are happy to work on a marginal cost basis. Uber (and its competitors like Ola and Taxi for Sure) are thus a Win Win Win proposition - better for customers, better for Cab Owners / Drivers, and good for Uber et al as well.

Just don't expect them to verify the character of each of their drivers - policing is a job for the police, not for the private sector. It's time the cops ensure that people with criminal records can't get or renew commercial driver's licenses, and all driver's licenses are linked to Aadhar.

[rajneeesh]

Hopefully better sense will prevail and the government will revoke the ban sooner rather than later. I have Used Taxi for Sure and Ola and found them to be good value for money. This will also promote public transport as a lot of people will not invest in 2nd and third cars when efficient and safe cab services are available.