[audioholic]

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

So, what is the real issue?

• Is there a regulation on colour temperature allowed? If so, don't think it is being followed by manufacturers.
• Are the cut offs for low beams proper?
• Does "cool white" really helping even the one who is driving the car?

Here are my thoughts

• LEDs, by default produce more light per watt. So, a 60W LED would be way more brighter than a regular halogen. Government should refine/update the rules to limit the light emitted, than limit the wattage.
• High wavelength light disperse less, hence gives more visibility to driver. This is the reason to have 3500K-4000K colour temperature (yellowish) for headlights. Anything above, due to dispersion, creates blinding effect to onlookers and is a hazard. This needs to be regulated by government, if not done already. I tend to think there could be rules that are getting violated.

Then the question is why LEDs seem to light the road ahead. It is purely because of the reason # 1 above- more light per watt.

I would like to add a few points:

1. With respect to wattage, it is not true that a 55W halogen bulb will be replaced by a 55W LED. Thats practically impossible if you know how much of a heat dissipation problem it is to use an LED at that power output. The LED headlights of cars are usually around 15-20w depending on the setup. Hence, as you say, more power per watt is true, but what isnt is using same wattage of LED/HID v/s Halogen. It is true for HID as well, since HID bulbs dont cross 35w in OE setup.
2. Cutoff for LED and HID is far superior compared to an equivalent halogen setup in low beam. Since they use either projector with cutoff shield or a TIR reflector, the cutoff pattern is anyday sharper than a halogen headlight. You should experience it from the drivers seat if you havent, and you will fall in love with the sharpness of the cutoff.
3. Regulations focus on the maximum luminosity of a single headlight source. It is true for international as well as Indian regulations. Thats the sole reason a manufacturer cannot put a 55W LED bulb in place of a 55W halogen. There are also regulations which mention the handling of light scattering in case of an arc based lamp like HID. The AIS/CMVR mandates the use of headlight washers for HID assemblies greater than a certain luminosity - Exactly why Maruti used 25W HID instead of 35W to prevent the use of headlight washer.
4. Even in case of two wheeler lights, the headlight of the Activa is rated at less than 10w while its halogen equivalent was 35W.

Even though the problem exists, its not because of the above reasons.

First, we should understand the nature of the light sources. With a halogen bulb, you never stare right at the filament of the bulb. The filament is axial to the reflector and lots of reflecting planes direct the light from the filament to the road, and your first contact with the light source is these many planes inside the headlight. If you remember optics in college, depending on where your face is wrt the headlight, you will not be glancing at all the planes at once.


Now when we consider a projector, the headlight source is concentrated into a much smaller area of reflector and a perfectly parallel beam of light is thrown on the road. Which means if you as an oncoming vehicle falls in the path of this parallel light, its definitely blinding. Thats exactly why a very sharp cutoff is provided which is actually very pleasant for the oncoming vehicle.


Now enter LEDs, they are either driven by a reflector or a projector. In case of the latter, the above applies. But for a reflector based LED, what we have is a Total Internal Reflector. The LED sit perpendicular to the TIR and within a small reflector size, the entire light is reflected which is again a perfectly parallel beam.


Source: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=...AAAAAdAAAAABAL

After all this, lets come to the bigger issue, that is in the usage. The low beams of HID and LED are never bothersome. Including the Activas or whatever. The real problem lies in the high beams since like I explained, it is always a small, focussed, bright beam that hits the face of the other users. It is a characteristic of white light to not be bounced off nicely from the road, even though it works perfectly against obstacles and lane markings. Due to this, people have the bad habit of switching to high beam all the time, which is the real irritant. I have cars with all three setups, and I know how bad the high beams are if I drive against my own car. This is irrespective of halogen, HID or LED. It is just that the latter two are sources where light is concentrated to a smaller area, that it is more of a problem than a HID high beam.

In the same way, a halogen high beam of a car with a small reflector bowl such as XUV, Innova crysta is equally bad. Unless road manners improve, the type of headlight technology would not be the one to blame.

[gopaneel]

I've recently got a Glanza aka Baleno. Just wanted to share the experience from the other side of the windshield, since the Baleno headlights are getting a lot of attention. I was very excited about the projector lights when I got the car, particularly that the base variant had them. But my last few night drives have been bad and this is just within the city. I've had a few close misses with the divider. The unmarked beginnings of dividers are just not visible. And with someone shining a high beam, I feel totally helpless. My default mode is the low beam and flash high beam when somebody blinds me with theirs or when the opposite lanes are empty. But visibility is really bad.

I've had a Unicorn with 35W halogens for 14 years now and extensively driven the 3rd gen Honda City with stock headlights. While neither had great headlights, it's never been this bad and it's been only a week with the Glanza. I really love the car except for the headlamps and I'm really worried about getting on a divider.

[dksv]

I’ve replaced halogens with 6000K HID in my Seltos’ projectors. My default usage is low beam but I throw a high-beam flash to those who try to blind me. Most of the time they oblige by lowering their beams - so its purpose is served. I’m aware these are not street legal but I do my best to not cause trouble to drivers with good road manners

The other truth is that on the lower variants of the Seltos the headlight setup is underwhelming. So had to fix it.

[Abhineet Singh]

I have personally found the Honda City’s light to be blinding. Soon, I found a lot many cars have joined this infamous club.

As I drive a sedan, many times the low cutoff lights of Fortuner and Endeavour have proven to deliver the same effect.

There is an urgent need for government regulations and informing the drivers/taxi owners, about the need to NOT drive on a high beam in the city. Or to be accommodating of the other drivers while on the highway. But, I reckon, the government will take a long time to look into this issue (I hope I am wrong about this).

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by audioholic

After all this, lets come to the bigger issue, that is in the usage. The low beams of HID and LED are never bothersome. Including the Activas or whatever. The real problem lies in the high beams since like I explained, it is always a small, focussed, bright beam that hits the face of the other users.

Agreed, the main culprit is not LED/HID, rather it is usage of high beam at all time.

Apart from few ignorant people on road, most of the people use high beam because low beam is insufficient to light up the road ahead and even markings are not clearly visible in this light (as user Gopaneel also mentioned in his post quoted below) and the case worsen if someone in front of you using high beam. It is like a chain reaction - one person start using high beam because of oncoming vehicle is using high beam (or low beam is insufficient) and he is blinded by light, then other person also does same and this goes on and on. Later, people get tired of frequently switching low/high beam, hence use high beam all the time as habit.

The simpler solution might be use of strong low beam light in vehicles. I switched to LEDs in my KTM RC 390 after the OEM bulb got fused (although the OEM light is good enough in the segment but upgraded due to frequent highway night rides). The projector set up has perfect hard cut off so it doesn't cause problem for oncoming traffic/pedestrians ever. The low beam has excellent light throw and sufficient for most of the rides. I never felt need to switch to high beam within city or even highways for that matter and use high beam mostly on empty roads with lots of curves.

So if more people have strong low beam in their vehicles (LED/HID/Halogen), then maybe, they will not switch to high beam frequently. And more the people use low beam, their opposite traffic will also not feel the need to turn on high beam as there are no blinding lights and they can clearly see roads with their lights as well as oncoming vehicles' low beam lights. End result - significant improvement in highway drives.

Originally Posted by gopaneel

I've recently got a Glanza aka Baleno.
I've had a few close misses with the divider. The unmarked beginnings of dividers are just not visible. And with someone shining a high beam, I feel totally helpless. My default mode is the low beam and flash high beam when somebody blinds me with theirs or when the opposite lanes are empty. But visibility is really bad.

[anandhsub]

I haven't had significant issues with car LEDs, at least not more than halogen high beams.

However the Activa LEDs are annoying. It is terrible design IMO, even the low beams are bad even in daylight given they are always on.

[DeathPig]

Originally Posted by dksv

The other truth is that on the lower variants of the Seltos the headlight setup is underwhelming. So had to fix it.

The Sonet is a culprit as well. The throw of the halogens in the HTK+ is alarmingly bad. I'm not sure how good the LEDs of the HTX will be, but I'm excited nonetheless.

[NaXal]

Cars aren't causing any issue but scooty & bikes are just intolerable !!

They don't have any level adjustment & most of them adjust their beam level for single rider but in road they ride with double or even triple so even with their low beam, its straight on your face :(

Thanks.

[Mafia]

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use a spell-checker.

[neelkumar]

We should add Brezza as well to this list of abnormalities. And LED + high beam is a dangerous combination for oncoming traffic.

We do have regulations against usage of high beams, but it is not strictly enforced.

One example which is even more dangerous is when we are driving in a 2 lane road and you are blinded by the LED/high beam lights and you have no judgement of the road ahead. Does the road become narrow? Is there any pothole? Sometimes, you may even find people walking and you panic break/turn at the last moment.

I have had quite a lot of near misses this way and it's my only complaint against driving at night.

We seriously need regulations against high wattage LED setups and strict enforcement of rules against high beam usage.

[TrackDay]

There was a doctor who lived in my neighborhood sometime back. The fellow would only drive with his headlights in high beam. Whenever I approached him on this topic, he would say, he can only drive with high beam, else he can't see the road. Imagine this coming from an educated professional !

Although this thread is pertaining to OEM LED/HID headlights, I feel every source of blinding lights should be fined immediately. Many a times I have had to stop/slow down my car/scooter due to such oncoming lights. Cops should also bring out some light meter device or procedures to fine such folks.

This is indeed a very serious issue and should be addressed immediately. Meanwhile is there any solution to prevent our eyes from being blinded ? Some film etc. which could be cut into a small rectangular strip that could be placed just ahead of the driver on the windshield ?

[gupta_chd]

Originally Posted by TrackDay

There was a doctor who lived in my neighborhood sometime back. The fellow would only drive with his headlights in high beam. Whenever I approached him on this topic, he would say, he can only drive with high beam, else he can't see the road. Imagine this coming from an educated pro

If cops do not allow high beam in first place, such people will learn themselves. You cannot drive for 5 minutes in Chandigarh on high beam without getting caught. It is blessing in disguise for everyone on road. But Activas are still a menace even on low beam

[ADI7YAK]

On a lighter note.

[agbenny]

Factory-fitted LED headlamps in Activa 5G/6G are certainly more and unnecessarily brighter, looks after-market and an annoyance. Anybody got the same feel?

[pkulkarni.2106]

Originally Posted by gupta_chd

You cannot drive for 5 minutes in Chandigarh on high beam without getting caught. It is blessing in disguise for everyone on road.

Is it for real? How I wish Maharashtra police did this too.
I don't drive much at nights, but whenever I do, there are many idiots driving with their high beams always on. No matter what you do, they don't budge.

On a lighter note, I also wish manufacturers enforce a timeout for high beams. After a certain time limit (let's say 2 minutes), the high beams should automatically switch to low beams