Public apathy kills 25 yr old Kolkata biker. EDIT: A bill GOI introduced in RS Nov'06

planet_rocker · 15th September 2007, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaybiz

Why not start a thread about having contact numbers of all team-bhp members city wise for any kind of emergency?I hope all bhpians are more then happy to help atleast their bhp pals.

the Kolkata gang maintains an MS Excel sheet - details about their mobile numbers, emails, organizations they work with, residence location, real name & TBHP avatar - we keep on updating the sheet from time to time and send it across to all @ their respective emails.

amit · 15th September 2007, 12:51

People from Kolkatta shouldn't take this personally. This is not about Kolkatta. This could have happened in any city of India. A few days back there was a sick naked woman found lying in a ladies first class compartment in a Mumbai suburban train. The passengers didn't bother. The railway staff threw a cloth over her at Titwala station and let the train proceed to CST which is almost 2 hours away. Thats where I think she got off and was found dead on the platform 2 days later.

Indians are insensitive. For whatever reason, the fact is we are a country full of insensitive, rude people. Have any of you seen how the railway staff handle dead bodies of people who fall of trains or are run over? Many times I have seen dead bodies lying on the floor of the platform half covered with a bloody bed sheet.

Yes, mob violence and the cops attitude makes people wanting to help think twice.

rocksterraghu · 15th September 2007, 13:13

Something was terribly wrong, otherwise someone or the other would have tried the least extent possible. Now, I can't think of someone who was at the scene and seen the poor man bleeding his life out for hours and has done nothing about it. If no one stepped in to help, I suspect one more thing. The bus may be private player's or a vehicle which has a very big union, a dangerous one in a way. Otherwise people would have done something or the other. Just a guess.

It is indeed a very sad story. May his soul rest in peace and let God bless his family and friends with the strength to bear this loss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaybiz

Why not start a thread about having contact numbers of all team-bhp members city wise for any kind of emergency?I hope all bhpians are more then happy to help atleast their bhp pals.

A good idea, but making phone numbers public on a forum is not advisible.

razor4077 · 24th September 2007, 23:44

I came across this thread today, quite a few days after the accident happened. Bejoy was a colleague of mine in PwC. I had never had the opportunity to interact with him in person and now I never will.
There were a few theories about this accident, some of which have been mentioned in this thread. Some say he was lying there for 40 mins with no one stopping to help, while some reports say that he passed away instantly. His helmet was not strapped on, and did not protect him when he hit the road. No one will really know what transpired exactly, so let's take all the theories with a pinch of salt.

Now the biggest shock that most of us have felt is the apathy shown by the people who passed him that day. He did lie there for a long time with no one stopping to help. A minimum of 30 cars pass any point of that road at 10am in the morning. So more than a 1000 cars (30*30+) passed by. If no. of occupants/vehicle is on avg. 3, that would make over 3000 people. These include policemen who were in patrol cars (this hit me the most).
The maths makes it even more brutal.

Having lived most of my life in Kolkata, I know this is not typical of the city. It is also not typical of Salt Lake, where I have grown up and seen many an accident - always followed by a group of people pitching in to help out. Sector 5 is a little different though, since it has only offices, and hence lacks the warmth that characterises most of the city.

IMHO, these are the contributing factors to people not stopping:

1. Police. Getting involved in such accidents, even with the intention of saving someone's life, could make you the prime suspect in the eyes of the cops. Most of the policemen have a disgusting reaction to such emergencies - the most common ones being: "Did you hit him?" and "That's not in my jurisdiction so I cannot help you". Even if they do deign to follow up, the samaritan who reports it will be grilled and hassled for wanting to do the right thing.

2. Apathy & indifference. This is sadly becoming part of us now. And, as someone pointed out, it is not restricted to Kolkata. We go past the injured party assuming that someone else will stop and help him. I've heard some drivers comment that transporting a bleeding man to the hospital will spoil their upholstery. I am not kidding.

3. Mob fury. This is again common all over the country. Stone and set on fire the vehicle that committed the accident and any other vehicles in the vicinity. Something that anyone would try to avoid.

Road accidents are becoming the norm in Kolkata these days. Local newspapers and radio stations have started campaigns to try and curb this menace, and one can only hope that they succeed.
We do not want any more Bejoy De's. Rest in peace Bejoy.

Zappo · 28th September 2007, 18:03

Thought will update you people with this... particularly since this thread has seen a lot of debate on this very issue.

Right to Emergency Care:
Date of Judgment: 23/02/2007.
Case No.: Appeal (civil) 919 of 2007.

The Supreme Court has ruled that all injured persons especially in the case of road traffic accidents, assaults, etc., when brought to a hospital / medical centre, have to be offered first aid, stabilized and shifted to a higher centre / government centre if required. It is only after this that the hospital can demand payment or complete police formalities. In case you are a bystander and wish to help someone in an accident, please go ahead and do so. Your responsibility ends as soon as you leave the person at the hospital.

The hospital bears the responsibility of informing the police, first aid, etc.

Please do inform your family and friends about these basic rights so that we all know what to expect and what to do in the hour of need. If the hospital refuses to cooperate or the police tries to unnecessarily drag you into some mess tell them that SC allows you to just drop a line and that can be taken up by the honourable SC as a contempt of Court. That should get them all in line.

rr_zen · 1st October 2007, 19:42

@Zappo: Can you give me some authentic source from where you got this info ? Am not sure if we have the real picture of what the judgement says. Please see the link below:

The Judgement Information System

tsk1979 · 1st October 2007, 23:36

Does it really matter what the SC says.
All these judgements are useless when there is no enforcement.
The problem is not lack of laws, but lack of enforcement.

Few years ago, we we going on a local city road, and saw a scooterist cross the main road without looking, and a 407 could not brake in time and hit the scooterist.
He was bleeing quite a bit and was in a bad shape. We stopped the car and took him to hospital.
Most people including hospital staff tried to blame up. They offered care etc., of course but asked us to wait, as its a police case. We called up his relatives and they also assumed that we hit him.
Luckily for us, the truck driver came forward and said that he had hit the guy. So we were saved from having a case booked on us.
So next time I would be very scared in picking up somebody from the road. I know I may sound emotionless etc., but at that time we both were in our early twenties, and when a good deed done starts to turn on you you make opinions and assumptions.
A couple of month back in noida, we saw a few bikers standing and a guy lying on the road.
Instead of picking him up, I just raced to the nearest police checkpost in about 2 minutes, got the cops to the scene and they took the guy to the hospital. Luckily not much injury to him.
That said I would call an ambulance, or even drive to the hospital to get one, but picking someone on the road? I would be scared.

vebmetal · 2nd October 2007, 02:18

It does matter what the SC says, such as in the case that the police arrests you when you help someone. But anyway, as rr_zen points out, civil appeal 919 of 2007 does not contain any such judgment. You can look it up yourself in The Judgment Information System. Most probably it's a hoax as reported here.

Kindly do remove the words "KNOW THIS-An important SC judgement" from the Title, unless someone can provide a credible source.

Nitin · 2nd October 2007, 02:57

Its a good thing that such a rule exists,which would let a person (trying to help the injured) not get into any legal issues. The only issue is that this information should be spread,so that everyone involved- ie, cops, hospital management,doctors etc..all are aware of this. Specifically hospitals, since their action relates to either life or death of an accident victim. Cops, who need to acertian who was at fault need to get a 1st hand report of the incident from witnesses,and only then proceed with the investigation instead of catching the pious soul and framing him/her for the incident.

Above all,I feel that the best way out would be for the general public to be aware of these rules,so that when the need arises, they'd be able to stand together and save a life,and help in punishing the culprits. If such a state were to be achieved, no one would be scared to help save a life after an accident has taken place.
Well..I don't have much hope on the general public nor the Govt services..
God help everyone!

rr_zen · 2nd October 2007, 07:30

The best part is that the same information has spread like wild fire by means of blogs, email forwards, et al. I would only be too glad if this were true !

At the moment though, am afraid we have no choice but to take it with a pinch of salt !

1100D · 2nd October 2007, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitin

so that everyone involved- ie, cops, hospital management,doctors etc..all are aware of this.

Most of these people dont go online for being aware, there are other motivations.

It will take a few years, however with rate of spread of communications network the future doesn't look bleak.

However Zappo has already mentioned, that those authorities may not know, but when you know and inform what you can charge them with, things start lookig different. Believe me it works. It always helps to build up a diverse friendlist not limited to your own domain and make sure some of them can get you out of legal tangles.

Zappo · 3rd October 2007, 00:37

Hmmm... could be that there is an error in that case number mentioned. I also recieved it via mail. However it is also possible that the entire thing is a hoax. But I am skeptical whether the whole thing is concocted as there was already something afoot on this front during the end of 2006.

Hindu covered the story here. And then something as a followup was being done in Nov 2006 as government introduced a bill in Rajyasabha to make it a law.

vebmetal · 3rd October 2007, 02:50

^ perhaps. I checked all judgments and orders numbered 919 of 2007 - no luck. But I certainly am not going to go through each judgment of 2007! Besides your links talk about contemplations of the legislature, not decisions of the judiciary. It's hard to say whether this is an honest error, or purposeful mischief. But as of know it looks spurious.

I think till there is some credible source, it is imperative for the title to be altered for the sake of not spreading misinformation.

Whenever I receive any such chain e-mails, the first thing I do is to use Google and sites like Urban Legends Reference Pages to check if it's a hoax or not. It takes 2 seconds each time, and so far 99% of such e-mails have proved to be hoaxes - proving to be an exercise in mass misinformation by callous, albeit well-meaning, people. I am usually quick to hit "Reply-All" in these cases and give them a piece of my mind.

What is really atrocious is when newspapers report these fake stories!!!

Mods, please do edit the title, and let this thread get back to it's topic.

15th September 2007, 12:51	#32
amit Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 3,712 Thanked: 451 Times	People from Kolkatta shouldn't take this personally. This is not about Kolkatta. This could have happened in any city of India. A few days back there was a sick naked woman found lying in a ladies first class compartment in a Mumbai suburban train. The passengers didn't bother. The railway staff threw a cloth over her at Titwala station and let the train proceed to CST which is almost 2 hours away. Thats where I think she got off and was found dead on the platform 2 days later. Indians are insensitive. For whatever reason, the fact is we are a country full of insensitive, rude people. Have any of you seen how the railway staff handle dead bodies of people who fall of trains or are run over? Many times I have seen dead bodies lying on the floor of the platform half covered with a bloody bed sheet. Yes, mob violence and the cops attitude makes people wanting to help think twice. Last edited by amit : 15th September 2007 at 12:53.
	() Thanks

24th September 2007, 23:44	#34
razor4077 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,881 Thanked: 300 Times View My Garage	I came across this thread today, quite a few days after the accident happened. Bejoy was a colleague of mine in PwC. I had never had the opportunity to interact with him in person and now I never will. There were a few theories about this accident, some of which have been mentioned in this thread. Some say he was lying there for 40 mins with no one stopping to help, while some reports say that he passed away instantly. His helmet was not strapped on, and did not protect him when he hit the road. No one will really know what transpired exactly, so let's take all the theories with a pinch of salt. Now the biggest shock that most of us have felt is the apathy shown by the people who passed him that day. He did lie there for a long time with no one stopping to help. A minimum of 30 cars pass any point of that road at 10am in the morning. So more than a 1000 cars (30*30+) passed by. If no. of occupants/vehicle is on avg. 3, that would make over 3000 people. These include policemen who were in patrol cars (this hit me the most). The maths makes it even more brutal. Having lived most of my life in Kolkata, I know this is not typical of the city. It is also not typical of Salt Lake, where I have grown up and seen many an accident - always followed by a group of people pitching in to help out. Sector 5 is a little different though, since it has only offices, and hence lacks the warmth that characterises most of the city. IMHO, these are the contributing factors to people not stopping: 1. Police. Getting involved in such accidents, even with the intention of saving someone's life, could make you the prime suspect in the eyes of the cops. Most of the policemen have a disgusting reaction to such emergencies - the most common ones being: "Did you hit him?" and "That's not in my jurisdiction so I cannot help you". Even if they do deign to follow up, the samaritan who reports it will be grilled and hassled for wanting to do the right thing. 2. Apathy & indifference. This is sadly becoming part of us now. And, as someone pointed out, it is not restricted to Kolkata. We go past the injured party assuming that someone else will stop and help him. I've heard some drivers comment that transporting a bleeding man to the hospital will spoil their upholstery. I am not kidding. 3. Mob fury. This is again common all over the country. Stone and set on fire the vehicle that committed the accident and any other vehicles in the vicinity. Something that anyone would try to avoid. Road accidents are becoming the norm in Kolkata these days. Local newspapers and radio stations have started campaigns to try and curb this menace, and one can only hope that they succeed. We do not want any more Bejoy De's. Rest in peace Bejoy.
	() Thanks

28th September 2007, 18:03	#35
Zappo Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 5,908 Thanked: 2,746 Times	Supreme court judgement : Right to care in emergencies Thought will update you people with this... particularly since this thread has seen a lot of debate on this very issue. Right to Emergency Care: Date of Judgment: 23/02/2007. Case No.: Appeal (civil) 919 of 2007. The Supreme Court has ruled that all injured persons especially in the case of road traffic accidents, assaults, etc., when brought to a hospital / medical centre, have to be offered first aid, stabilized and shifted to a higher centre / government centre if required. It is only after this that the hospital can demand payment or complete police formalities. In case you are a bystander and wish to help someone in an accident, please go ahead and do so. Your responsibility ends as soon as you leave the person at the hospital. The hospital bears the responsibility of informing the police, first aid, etc. Please do inform your family and friends about these basic rights so that we all know what to expect and what to do in the hour of need. If the hospital refuses to cooperate or the police tries to unnecessarily drag you into some mess tell them that SC allows you to just drop a line and that can be taken up by the honourable SC as a contempt of Court. That should get them all in line. Last edited by Zappo : 28th September 2007 at 18:06.
	() Thanks

1st October 2007, 19:42	#36
rr_zen Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 1,810 Thanked: 423 Times View My Garage	@Zappo: Can you give me some authentic source from where you got this info ? Am not sure if we have the real picture of what the judgement says. Please see the link below: The Judgement Information System
	() Thanks

1st October 2007, 23:36	#37
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,688 Thanked: 23,489 Times View My Garage	Does it really matter what the SC says. All these judgements are useless when there is no enforcement. The problem is not lack of laws, but lack of enforcement. Few years ago, we we going on a local city road, and saw a scooterist cross the main road without looking, and a 407 could not brake in time and hit the scooterist. He was bleeing quite a bit and was in a bad shape. We stopped the car and took him to hospital. Most people including hospital staff tried to blame up. They offered care etc., of course but asked us to wait, as its a police case. We called up his relatives and they also assumed that we hit him. Luckily for us, the truck driver came forward and said that he had hit the guy. So we were saved from having a case booked on us. So next time I would be very scared in picking up somebody from the road. I know I may sound emotionless etc., but at that time we both were in our early twenties, and when a good deed done starts to turn on you you make opinions and assumptions. A couple of month back in noida, we saw a few bikers standing and a guy lying on the road. Instead of picking him up, I just raced to the nearest police checkpost in about 2 minutes, got the cops to the scene and they took the guy to the hospital. Luckily not much injury to him. That said I would call an ambulance, or even drive to the hospital to get one, but picking someone on the road? I would be scared.
	(1) Thanks

2nd October 2007, 02:18	#38
vebmetal BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 800 Thanked: 21 Times	It does matter what the SC says, such as in the case that the police arrests you when you help someone. But anyway, as rr_zen points out, civil appeal 919 of 2007 does not contain any such judgment. You can look it up yourself in The Judgment Information System. Most probably it's a hoax as reported here. *Kindly do remove the words "KNOW THIS-An important SC judgement" from the Title*, unless someone can provide a credible source.
	() Thanks

2nd October 2007, 02:57	#39
Nitin Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,294 Thanked: 22 Times View My Garage	Its a good thing that such a rule exists,which would let a person (trying to help the injured) not get into any legal issues. The only issue is that this information should be spread,so that everyone involved- ie, cops, hospital management,doctors etc..all are aware of this. Specifically hospitals, since their action relates to either life or death of an accident victim. Cops, who need to acertian who was at fault need to get a 1st hand report of the incident from witnesses,and only then proceed with the investigation instead of catching the pious soul and framing him/her for the incident. Above all,I feel that the best way out would be for the general public to be aware of these rules,so that when the need arises, they'd be able to stand together and save a life,and help in punishing the culprits. If such a state were to be achieved, no one would be scared to help save a life after an accident has taken place. Well..I don't have much hope on the general public nor the Govt services.. God help everyone!
	() Thanks

2nd October 2007, 07:30	#40
rr_zen Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chennai, India Posts: 1,810 Thanked: 423 Times View My Garage	The best part is that the same information has spread like wild fire by means of blogs, email forwards, et al. I would only be too glad if this were true ! At the moment though, am afraid we have no choice but to take it with a pinch of salt !
	() Thanks

3rd October 2007, 00:37	#42
Zappo Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 5,908 Thanked: 2,746 Times	Hmmm... could be that there is an error in that case number mentioned. I also recieved it via mail. However it is also possible that the entire thing is a hoax. But I am skeptical whether the whole thing is concocted as there was already something afoot on this front during the end of 2006. Hindu covered the story here. And then something as a followup was being done in Nov 2006 as government introduced a bill in Rajyasabha to make it a law. Last edited by Zappo : 3rd October 2007 at 00:41.
	() Thanks

3rd October 2007, 02:50	#43
vebmetal BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 800 Thanked: 21 Times	^ perhaps. I checked all judgments and orders numbered 919 of 2007 - no luck. But I certainly am not going to go through each judgment of 2007! Besides your links talk about contemplations of the legislature, not decisions of the judiciary. It's hard to say whether this is an honest error, or purposeful mischief. But as of know it looks spurious. I think till there is some credible source, it is imperative for the title to be altered for the sake of not spreading misinformation. Whenever I receive any such chain e-mails, the first thing I do is to use Google and sites like Urban Legends Reference Pages to check if it's a hoax or not. It takes 2 seconds each time, and so far 99% of such e-mails have proved to be hoaxes - proving to be an exercise in mass misinformation by callous, albeit well-meaning, people. I am usually quick to hit "Reply-All" in these cases and give them a piece of my mind. What is really atrocious is when newspapers report these fake stories!!! Mods, please do edit the title, and let this thread get back to it's topic.
	() Thanks