[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by sreejith.j

We never but a Harley with logic but always with a loyalty

What is this loyalty about? You've eaten some of Harley's chromed namak? It almost sounds like you owe them something mate.

A motorcycle, whatever motorcycle should be bought because it makes you happy and you enjoy it. What does loyalty, brotherhood (you did not say it but this word comes up a LOT whenever Harleys are being discussed. Dunno what it is in reference to though) or whatever else has to do with you buying a bike

I have nothing against Harley. But its the culture that is bred by some of the Harley owners that I find very strange. On the Street thread itself IIRC, there was some gentleman asking some other Harley (Sportster?) owner if he would be "allowed" to ride with him and his posse if he bought a Street. I for one found that very lame.

Never, NEVER (for example) would you find a Ninjette 250 owner asking the 650 guy, "Saarrr, please will you let me ride next to you". I mean - they just dont care .... and they shouldn't

Let motorcycles be about motorcycles. All else is just some made up badassery put on by some very corporate type folks to play an alternate pirate lifestyle and "invest" a whole lot on getting the most amount of skull and crossbones accessories to look to the part too. Trust me, no badass criminal / thug can afford these machines. Its well heeled, very civilized corporate folks that can afford to buy and maintain these machines.

But whats weirder is that so many people buy into this "culture". In fact, they would slit throats to get into the thick of it. I for one feel we are at that certain age where we should stop playing dress up.

Again, nothing against Harley as a motorcycle. There are some true enthusiasts who ride Harleys for the sake of riding it and because it makes them happy. But lets get this out of the way my friend, you dont owe Harley anything. Definitely not your loyalty.

Get what your heart wants and be happy. God bless!

Rant over...... Urban out

[sreejith.j]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

What is this loyalty about? You've eaten some of Harley's chromed namak? It almost sounds like you owe them something mate.

Well its not a loyalty like the owe something to them. i guess it was a wrong term to use. My bad. I meant more like a fan or follower of a brand. Like I am fan of Honda cars, and I don't like Hyundai much even though they make some amazing cars. I guess its affinity towards some brands or rather a personal choice. No offence meant.

And about culture its an over-hyped thing, but the fact is that its a marketing gimmick from HD to survive as a brand. Else they would have ended with that bankruptcy back in the 70's. its a way they portray it. If you observe their ads, there is hardly anything that showcases their motorcycles but its more to do with lifestyle events and others.

And, also I don't think their is discrimination for the street owners. I never faced it. Road does not belong to any bike club.

No offence Taken bro.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by sreejith.j

And, also I don't think their is discrimination for the street owners. I never faced it. Road does not belong to any bike club.

Thanks for taking it in the right spirit mate.

Just to clarify, I did not mean that you faced discrimination or were looking for some sort of approval from other owners. I just remembered that someone did (in so many words) ask if he could join the Sporsters and above Harleys for rides. Was not directed at you, apologies if it came across like that

[abhimanyu_singh]

Originally Posted by sreejith.j

Like I am fan of Honda cars, and I don't like Hyundai much even though they make some amazing cars. I guess its affinity towards some brands or rather a personal choice.

I think we have much in common now that you have mentioned Honda. I for a one am a big fan of Honda and it is a personal choice like the Harley.

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

I just remembered that someone did (in so many words) ask if he could join the Sporsters and above Harleys for rides.

If remember it correctly it was something about a particular club(not a HOG club, but other bike club) which didn't accept bikes below 800cc, which might have created this worry in the minds of street buyers. There could have been 1-2 arrogant riders, i know 1 for a fact though, but this cant be generalized based on a single data point. AFAIK there is no discrimination within the Harley group, not even in the US where leave street aside, sporsters are considered girls bikes..

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

What is this loyalty about?

Not trying to defend anything here but this is my take on it - I guess its a brand and image affinity mate...its how they imagine themselves with the ride (which i'm sure that most of them aren't trying to pose as a criminal or a thug, but part of a group). Another thing that appeals most of them is the "exclusivity" with the HOG and the being part of the "club" and you are right they market it like that. I've seen pubs in gurgaon with Harley "HOG parking only" and special booths for them. Another thing is customization and the option of creating yours "unique" bike and they make a big hole in your pocket in the process. Looking at the price, I guess they must earn as much through customization as they do by selling bikes. SO it all boils down to the lifestyle that you buy along with a good machine.

[sreejith.j]

Originally Posted by abhimanyu_singh

Not trying to defend anything here but this is my take on it - I guess its a brand and image affinity mate...its how they imagine themselves with the ride (which i'm sure that most of them aren't trying to pose as a criminal or a thug, but part of a group). Another thing that appeals most of them is the "exclusivity" with the HOG and the being part of the "club" and you are right they market it like that. I've seen pubs in gurgaon with Harley "HOG parking only" and special booths for them. Another thing is customization and the option of creating yours "unique" bike and they make a big hole in your pocket in the process. Looking at the price, I guess they must earn as much through customization as they do by selling bikes. SO it all boils down to the lifestyle that you buy along with a good machine.

Oh, yes they do. They make a lot of money just from endorsements also. The accessories is again a big chunk of money. Even the merchandise.

Harley-Davidson sustains a large brand community which keeps active through clubs, events and a museum. Licensing of the Harley-Davidson brand and logo accounted for $40 million (0.8%) of the company's net revenue in 2010

From HD's Website

Revenue from motorcycles during the fourth quarter of 2012 of $771.1 million was down 2.6% compared to the year-ago period. The Company shipped 47,067 motorcycles to dealers and distributors worldwide during the quarter. In the year-ago period, the Company shipped 50,730 motorcycles. Fourth-quarter shipments were in line with guidance and consistent with the Company's previously announced plans for lower shipments in the quarter related to the implementation of seasonal surge production at York in the first half of 2013. The Company believes surge production will provide the flexibility to produce more motorcycles closer to customer demand during the prime selling season.

Revenue from motorcycle parts and accessories totaled $161.6 million during the quarter, up 0.2%, and revenue from general merchandise, which includes MotorClothes® apparel and accessories, was $74.0 million, up 6.8%, compared to the year-ago period

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by abhimanyu_singh

If remember it correctly it was something about a particular club(not a HOG club, but other bike club) which didn't accept bikes below 800cc, which might have created this worry in the minds of street buyers.

I hope you dont mind my friend but I actually went through the comments on the old 750 thread and here's what I could dig out:

"I am up for performance and my comfort while riding a cruiser, which according to my test ride was more than satisfactory. Having said that, HOC membership, club rides and a fraternity is also a bit important to me, which remains unique to HD owners.

So please correct me if I’m wrong, I expect fair attitude and treatment by fellow HOG riders for my street 750. Frankly speaking I can’t go beyond the street at this point of my life; maybe later I can even upgrade to a fatboy, who knows.
"

So you are fine with how it rides, performance et al, BUT want some random people's opinion and IF they will treat you fairly???? I dont get it. And what would unfair treatment mean? "Chalo, hato yahaan se you street 750 waala" type thing?

This is not about cc or HP or whatever being the parameter or the cause for worry, its about Respect

Why should this be a concern? And I am gonna go back to my previous example - Ninja 250 vs 650. Talk to owners, go through the numerous wonderful ownership reviews we have here. Not 1 owner cares two hoots about what the "Bigger Ninja waala" thinks. I will happily quote more examples if you want me to my friend.

But this is the 1st thing that concerns you, with actually a disclaimer like "this is stop gap-ish, I might actually get a big Harley later so please dont worry. Whats all that about mate? Who cares what others think about what you ride? And if someone does, tell them to go fly a kite where the sun dont shine

I ride a Duke 390, dont think of the 200 as a "lesser" bike (was seriously considering buying one not too long ago) or the rider a lesser whatever. Even if I did, I can tell you this - That 200 rider doesnt give a rat's After Sales Service

And you dont find the "typical" Harley-wear dipped in a bucket of Pirate goo mixed with badass criminal sweat? Skulls-crossbones, ragged sleeveless T-shirts, torn jeans, Nazi helmets, doesnt ring a bell? If not, do search for a thread on some Bike fest held in Goa recently.

I hope you enjoy riding whatever you decide to get yourself mate. Do invest in some good riding gear and be safe. Hope to see you on the streets of Delhi soon (if you let me ride next to you with my puny 375 cc's.... pretty please)

Originally Posted by sreejith.j

Oh, yes they do. They make a lot of money just from endorsements also. The accessories is again a big chunk of money. Even the merchandise.

I was reading somewhere about Harley and its rich racing heritage on some other forum. A member there mentioned something about Harley having the potential to become something like a Honda, Kwacker (performance wise) etc but decided to become a fashion clothing company instead.

And owners buy "off-the-shelf customization" ....... an oxymoron IMO, to make the bike "One of a kind"? So hundreds of people buy the same things from the Harley store and this makes their bikes stand out. Leaves me thoroughly confused

[rjun04]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

So you are fine with how it rides, performance et al, BUT want some random people's opinion and IF they will treat you fairly???? I dont get it. And what would unfair treatment mean? "Chalo, hato yahaan se you street 750 waala" type thing?

This is not about cc or HP or whatever being the parameter or the cause for worry, its about Respect

Why should this be a concern? And I am gonna go back to my previous example - Ninja 250 vs 650. Talk to owners, go through the numerous wonderful ownership reviews we have here. Not 1 owner cares two hoots about what the "Bigger Ninja waala" thinks. I will happily quote more examples if you want me to my friend.

Totally agree with you. I think people have completely lost the plot. Enjoying the bike and ride should be first. Brotherhood, group rides, et al should be bye-products at best. But definitely not the main course!! I was really amazed the other day during a discussion with someone I know who owns a Continental GT. Discussion on Fb - he posted some pictures of a ride and they were really good. So I commented saying "in a few months I'll join you." He asked me what I had booked and I told him I booked a Street. His response was "why would you ride with us if you own a Harley?" Kinda ended the conversation for me because I didn't know how to even respond to that. Not like I'll grow a pair of horns on my head if I own a Harley!

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

And owners buy "off-the-shelf customization" ....... an oxymoron IMO, to make the bike "One of a kind"? So hundreds of people buy the same things from the Harley store and this makes their bikes stand out. Leaves me thoroughly confused

Striking resembles to Apple phones and their customization available. In a world where everyone wants to be unique you go and buy the same phone because it's the "in thing" to do and accessorize it to make it unique!! I know this can open a can of worms so I'll stop!

[gthang]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Leaves me thoroughly confused

Sounds like Harleys are not for you.

If it has to be explained, you probably won't understand it.

Cheers

Ride Safe

[WeHonda]

"What I like

1. Looks of the bike. Though low Harley has designed the beast tastefully
2. Initial Torque of the bike. The first two gears are mind blowing
3. Comfortable Ride. Rides well on bad patches of road
4. Ease of handling.
5. The HOG community"

That's a lot to like! From the pictures you supplied I can see the ergos aren't perfect for you. It would help if the controls were moved forward a bit, including the bar. Otherwise, it doesn't look bad at all. You seem to be enjoying it.

I haven't seen a new Street in person, but from what I've YouTubed, etc. it seems that the engine is quite nice, but they need to learn from the Japanese how to hide the cheap parts. I ride a Hornet 900, and it's a parts-bin "price point" bike as well (the parts bin is the Honda Fireblade one, so this is nothing to be ashamed of). Same deal with cost-saving bits on mine as with the Street, but Honda disguises its miserly moves better than Harley does.

That front brake would greatly benefit from a braided hose, and probably some better pads IMO.

Overall, that Harley Street is a nice bike, and you seem to enjoy it. All this talk about Harleys and the "lifestyle brand" needs to be put aside as you simply assess the bike itself. Harley must be the most talked-about motorcycle on the planet. What do Ducati, Honda and BMW riders all have in common? They can't shut up about Harleys. Mostly they complain, and sneer about middle aged pirate wanna be, TV show 1 percenters. Call it "Harley therapy" for other riders.

Hey, I complain, too: those Harley riders never wave to me on my Honda. But when I was on a Road King they all loved me.

I decided years ago never to hold any of it against the bikes. I've ridden just about every type of bike out there, and loved most of them. (I never agree when people say a particular bike has no "character." Give it yours, brother!). However, an old 883 Sporty with a clunky 4 speed can still put a stupid grin on my face like nothing else can.

[LTAutoMad]

Urban_Nomad: There are Harley riders and there are Harley riders and there are Harley riders - you can't simplistically put millions of people around the world in the same category! I agree that there are many who buy Harleys as a style statement, be a "bad boy", to pose etc, but you find that their bikes quickly hit the used bike market.

Buying a Harley (or a Hayabusa or a Mini etc) is not something logical, its done from the heart. Unfortunately, like every group, there will be a small minority who spoil for the majority. Some, I repeat, some people who buy a 20L bike will turn up their noses at a 10L bike owner who might then turn up his nose at a 5L bike owner etc. Same way between some S-E-C class or 7-5-3 series owners. Its just human nature that some people are nasty & mean.

As for HOG rides, if it is a company sponsored ride, obviously, other makes won't be welcome. When Mercedes do a track day for AMG owners, do you think they will allow M owners also to attend?

Groupism or tribalism is also part of human nature - so you will find some fullsize Harley owners making fun of the Sportsters (commonly called skirtsters in Australia, implying that the riders are not "man enough" to ride a big bike, remember these are usually 6 foot++ beefy westerners, not the typical scrawny Indian riders) while the Sportster owners will laugh right back at them and tell them they are the faster riders and challenge them for a run around a twisty road etc etc. All good natured ribbing like that happens between friends.

[Dust_Harl]

Originally Posted by LTAutoMad

Urban_Nomad:
As for HOG rides, if it is a company sponsored ride, obviously, other makes won't be welcome. When Mercedes do a track day for AMG owners, do you think they will allow M owners also to attend?

Agree with many fellow riders on HOG being marketing strategy of Harley and there are in there to make serious business and establish themselves better. Here is what I see happening:

1. All Sportster friends envy dyna bikes riding along and they eventually want to be there.
2. All Dyna riders want to be on Fat Boy or Classic and eventually upgrade
3. And all street friends want to upgrade in sometime and get into Sportster

Street is number one selling bike (numbers) in Harley stable and definitely they would want more and more of them to join and ride along with other HOGs and definitely there is no question of not including them there. Who wants to restrict on the healthy marketing funnel? They are here to stay and capture upmarket share.

People who are not so fascinated with the upgrades don't bother with whom they ride and what bikes they ride along. For me I ride along KTM, Triumph, Honda, Yamaha , Bullet, and all. We ride together based on our convenience and enjoy the ride.

As my good friend always says "it's a meditation at high speed that gives you peace of mind and you need this meditation at least once a week". So don't bother how you look on the bike or what you ride. What matters is enjoying the ride.

As far as accepting Street in HOG rides, I don't think there is any discrimination. Harley would welcome more and more to join and feel the experience. It is a way to sell their upgrades / accessories and of course the apparels.

This is my view. Ride Safe.

Enjoy your ride

[Oreen]

fuel sensor conking off at less than 1000 km is bad news. What's the point then? People could have stuck to the unreliability of bullets.

[LTAutoMad]

Originally Posted by Dust_Harl

Here is what I see happening:

1. All Sportster friends envy dyna bikes riding along and they eventually want to be there.
2. All Dyna riders want to be on Fat Boy or Classic and eventually upgrade
3. And all street friends want to upgrade in sometime and get into Sportster

Agreed. What you say is generally true for HD all around the world, but there are heaps of exceptions:

- There are many people (including the hardcore 1% club members) who have been riding Sportsters for decades because of their agility & usable performance compared to the bigger bikes. Of course, most of them will be riding the 1200 / turbocharge it / even swap for a larger engine like the 88ci (1450cc). Essentially, the Sportsters have always been meant for the person who rides without a pillion.

- Many people, especially if they like to tour frequently / are very heavily built / ride with their partner / have bad backs etc prefer the Dyna over the Softails (Fatboy, Deluxe etc) since it has a "proper" rear suspension that can be changed easily to cater for their unique needs as against the hidden, small rear shocks of the Softails. Not to mention the twin front discs on the Dynas!

- The Softails are big, beautiful cruisers with an undeniable presence. You can do long trips happily on them too. You love them or hate them. Lots of people seem to be in the first camp as the Fatboy has been one of HD's all time top sellers worldwide. You never do a value proposition of a Dyna vs Fatboy - the Dyna will always come out ahead. But, when you buy a very expensive bike with passion (even in Australia, a full size Harley costing $30,000 @Rs.17L - barebones, add $5-10,000 for the usual Harley tax! - remains a dream for many), many HD riders eventually end up,as you said, with a Softail.

- Some people "graduate" to a fully dressed cruiser, but in crowded cities, it is really like driving a bus! Absolutely great if you tour 20-30,000 kms per year, meaning you must be at that stage of life where you are able to do that! Kids left home, (nearly) retired etc - hence their reputation as an old man's bike. In India, of course, when you ride by with the stereo pumping loud music, some bystanders will wonder "Wow, India is indeed shining, when I was young, lottery ticket sellers used to go around in bicycles"!

[abhimanyu_singh]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

I hope you dont mind my friend but I actually went through the comments on the old 750 thread and here's what I could dig out:

"I am up for performance and my comfort while riding a cruiser, which according to my test ride was more than satisfactory. Having said that, HOC membership, club rides and a fraternity is also a bit important to me, which remains unique to HD owners.

So you are fine with how it rides, performance et al, BUT want some random people's opinion and IF they will treat you fairly???? I dont get it.

I hope you enjoy riding whatever you decide to get yourself mate. Do invest in some good riding gear and be safe. Hope to see you on the streets of Delhi soon (if you let me ride next to you with my puny 375 cc's.... pretty please)



And owners buy "off-the-shelf customization" ....... an oxymoron IMO, to make the bike "One of a kind"?

Not at all brother, I stand by what ever I said. So if you have seen my entire post I'd written 1-2 examples shouldn't be generalized, right? So even before getting one, i had tasted the "unfair treatment" by one of the my friends, that's when i clarified and as i said, it shouldnt be generalised. Yes, its about "respect" and why would you like to be part of a group which acts like that? Which is not the case by the way.
If you look at Dheeraj sir's comments there was the 800cc+ club which had this rule, anyways that's off topic. For that matter I've had fun rides with my pulsar 180 back in the day with couple of high end groups and neither did I look down upon 150cc riders when I rode the bullet 500.

So having a concern about something doesn't make it the only thing, or the first thing, it just makes it a thing. Anyway, as I said, the thing about Harley is that you buy a lifestyle with a great machine, if not the best around. As I said earlier, performance sure matters the most, but these tiny things like HOG etc. also adds up to the complete package for me. Its a personal choice bro, you might have a different take on this and that's fine. People having skull patches and is all due to the Harley branding, there are so many Harley logos and custimisation options with typical Harley skulls. I wont call all the Iron maiden/Heavy metal fans dressed up in skulls and bones T-shirts posing as criminals, would you?

Wrt customisation, even with off the shelf, "19000 accessories" and who knows how many aftermarket ones (American and Indian), you sir do have plethora of choices to make your bike "unique", look at Josephpeters bike. Burning hole in the pocket is another thing altogether.



I'm assuming you haven't read my other threads so - I loved street after my TD and after looking at the solutions for some of the issues with street's braking, quality etc. I'd made up my mind to book the street. This time I took a longer ride with my wife(who btw has been my co-rider in all of my small and very long rides since college). We both were literally stuffed/cramped in there, and no we aren't that fat (lol) but yes a bit tall (5'11" & 5'8"). Moreover the two-up touring in the street could be a bit painful considering maximum weight allowed is 180kgs, that gives us no room for baggage if another person like me was travelling with me. This was when i started researching sportsters (iron i'd tried earlier but didnt fit well) and fell in love with the superlow, its ride, classic charecter etc. etc. So for me, its a great machine with a whole new lifestyle. Finally took my wife for a spin and booked it two months back. Expected delivery is Jan 2015 as the waiting was 8 months, street is at priority for them at the moment.

I look forward to riding with you in Delhi mate, just hoping to get a job switch soon and head back to Delhi from Hyderabad.

Originally Posted by rjun04

Totally agree with you. I think people have completely lost the plot. Enjoying the bike and ride should be first. Brotherhood, group rides, et al should be bye-products at best.

...because I didn't know how to even respond to that. Not like I'll grow a pair of horns on my head if I own a Harley!

Striking resembles to Apple phones and their customization available.

Yes it should be, and its a personal choice if other things also matters a bit.

wrt your friend's FB comment, Harley bashing is quite common, so you would get that from couple of people, maybe because of the exclusivity HD tries to maintain.

Comparing it to apple's, seriously!!! Leave street aside, coz its fairly new, but you have more than 19000 HD accessories to chose from for the Sportsters.

[sreejith.j]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

And owners buy "off-the-shelf customization" ....... an oxymoron IMO, to make the bike "One of a kind"? So hundreds of people buy the same things from the Harley store and this makes their bikes stand out. Leaves me thoroughly confused

Not true. There are lot of other brands that make accessories for Harley's and as Abhimanyu mentioned there are more than a lot to choose from right in the Harley. i doubt if any other brand would offer that. The customization is definitely more in HD's. There are even examples of guys who customize it a lot more. There is an example right here on our TBHP where dustom_99 is getting ready to get a turbo installed. The big bore kits are another example. I doubt is there is any other OEM who would support it, or even if any other OEM's do a tuners.

Also, about the fuel sensor, i guess HD didnt get it right when and perhaps they might need a recall. If I remember correctly there was a post on the official review thread where one of the members had mentioned that the the production was stopped due to fuel sensor issue. However it was ignored as a rumor.