[Nilesh5417]

Are these BigWing outlets HMSI owned or dealer owned? I don't think dealers will be willing to put in this kind of money unless Honda shows some business case. And with no roadmap given of how many outlets and in what time frame, let's hope it's an experiment that works. Ducati Pune recently broke their 3S facility into sales and service. Both having moved to way cheaper and smaller locations with the service facility actually moving out of city limits in a warehouse with corrugated roof. So am just wondering what would HMSIs strategy be when overall SBK sales are falling.

[payeng]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

Are these BigWing outlets HMSI owned or dealer owned? I don't think dealers will be willing to put in this kind of money unless Honda shows some business case.

The BigWing site says for the Gurugram Dealership as: Big Wing (Dhingra Automobiles), which means its Dealer Owned.

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

And with no roadmap given of how many outlets and in what time frame, let's hope it's an experiment that works.

The site has mentioned 23 Locations:

1 Delhi NCR Gurugram - Honda BigWing
2 Tamil Nadu Coimbatore - Suryabala Motors
3 Tamil Nadu Chennai - SVM Motors
4 Kerala Cochin - EVM Automobiles
5 Telangana Hyderabad - JSP Automotive
6 Karnataka Bangalore - Silicon Motors
7 Maharashtra Mumbai - Hem Agencies
8 Maharashtra Mumbai - Honda Wing World
9 Maharashtra Pune - Pashankar Auto Pvt. Ltd.
10 Maharashtra Kolhapur - Dreams Mobility LLP
11 Maharashtra Nagpur - Sudarshan Motors
12 Gujarat Ahmedabad - Punjab Automobiles
13 Gujarat Surat - Navjivan Automobiles
14 Gujarat Rajkot - Punjab Automobiles
15 Chandigarh Chandigarh - Krishna Auto Sales
16 Rajasthan Jaipur - Advent Automobiles Pvt. Ltd.
17 Punjab Jalandhar - Cargo Motors Punjab Pvt Ltd
18 Madhya Pradesh Indore - Kasliwal Automobiles Pvt. Ltd.
19 Uttar Pradesh Lucknow - Envision Motors
20 Uttarakhand Dehradun - Ess Ell Motors
21 Odisha Bhubaneswar - PGL Ramji Motors Pvt. Ltd.
22 West Bengal Kolkata - Dugar Automotives Pvt. Ltd.
23 Assam Guwahati - Bimal Motors Pvt. Ltd.



Been to the Gurugram BigWing Showroom yesterday at around 6: 30 PM.. it was CLOSED.

Could see from out side that there were a couple of GoldWings, a CBR1000RR, a CB1000R, a CB300R and surprisingly a FORZA Scooter on Display.

Was no Africa Twin or CBR650R on display. But found it surprising as to why was the showroom closed at 6:30 PM

Originally Posted by GTO

Question to bikers = Are big bike volumes enough to bring a return on the investment?

The BIG bikes would be there just to lend HALO.

What Honda is really after is currently the entry level Lifestyle model the CB300R.

The Success / Response of the CB300R would determine the fate of this venture. Also comparision with NEXA is not valid since NEXA products are still MASS Market products.

[timuseravan]

Originally Posted by GTO

Question to bikers = Are big bike volumes enough to bring a return on the investment?

Doubtful. And especially since Honda refuses to sell bikes like NC750x or CB500x or Rebel series which actually have potential to sell in big numbers.

[Madhu_Bengaluru]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

Doubtful. And especially since Honda refuses to sell bikes like NC750x or CB500x or Rebel series which actually have potential to sell in big numbers.

Fully agree, I have been waiting to see the CB500X for such a long time now. Launch it and price it around 5 lakhs and it should sell pretty well. The only capable tourers that I can think under 10 lakhs is Versys and V-Storm and the CB500X can undercut these two. I would have loved to see CB500X being launched here in India instead of the puny CB300R.

[payeng]

HONDA CB400 Super Four | My Dream Bike | Launch it at 4-5 Lakhs

[neil.jericho]

The big giant is finally flexing its muscles! I smell some new launches coming up in the next year or two. Honda has followed a two step process so far

1. Wing World network
These were selected dealerships across India that dealt with their big bikes while also catering to the other motorcycles and scooters in the same dealership floor space. The near zero investment in additional infrastructure (in Bangalore for example they have cordoned off and built a special service room with air conditioning IIRC below the showroom) meant that labour costs could be very low compared to the other players. Also Honda has played their parts pricing cards very well and that is very reasonable from what Ive been told. Owners on the forum can provide actual details of the same.

With the restrained sales volumes that have been manageable within their service capacity constraints, Honda has played it smart and done a good job of keeping their customers happy. Look at other manufacturers who are selling big bikes in plenty but leaving their customers annoyed at service time. Ive had Kawasaki owners tell me not to buy a Kawasaki because of the way the service levels have dropped. The Triumph SVC here in Cochin told me that they are now getting customers from other states riding down to Cochin to get their bikes serviced because service levels have dropped have dropped there. At the end of the day, a happy customer is quite likely to be a repeat customer and Honda gets it. Triumph did as well (so many Triple customers upgraded to the Tigers) until recently but rumblings are that the same focus in now not as sharp as before leading to some unhappiness among owners.

As a potential Honda customer, the big challenge so far was the lack of test ride bikes of all their big bike offerings. Now this is a debatable topic but I feel the company needs to
- have at least one TR bike of each model at a national level, which can get rotated between dealerships at worst
- ensure each dealership has one TR bike of each model at a dealer level at best.

In Kerala for example, there was no TR bike of the 650 or any other model, to my knowledge. When I was on the hunt for a litre class motorcycle, I was checking with HMSI and I couldnt get a test ride anywhere in the country. Had Honda been able to arrange one, I probably would have had a Blade in my garage.

2. Big Wing network
Now that Honda has built its reputation and credibility in the big bike space in India (easily #1 in customer satisfaction), it is now pushing its dealers to invest a lot more by taking up dedicated space focussed only on big bikes. Honda will surely move into the volumes game now that the new sales and service infrastructure is set up. The good thing is that Honda has a fabulous line up of vehicles that can be perfect for India such as the
- CB500s , all 3 bikes can do very well in India and will slot in between the CB300R and the CBR650R
- NC750X with DCT could be the perfect do it all bike for buyers who want true all rounders
- CB1100 for those who drool over real modern classics
- VFR800F cause of the VFR lineage

Coming to ownership, I feel Honda will continue to keep spare parts reasonably priced. Labour costs should expectedly go up but as long as its in line with the others, its shouldnt really matter. In fact, for the perceived superior service quality that Honda offers, they can get away with a slight premium over other manufacturers. Who knows, the way things are going, maybe a Blade is destined to join my garage in the years to come!

[Neo18]

A split up of labor costs versus spare parts cost will tell us whether it is the economies of scale that is working in favor of Honda when it comes to low cost of Honda super-bike ownership.

Given that they sell truckloads of Activa and the same facility/personnel/Administration was/were involved for all Honda Vehicle services till date, it will be interesting to see by how much the service costs go up with these new premium outlets for Big bikes.

Also, Honda bikes are already pricey vis-a-vis other Japanese Big bikes, hence offsetting a part of that service cost hike by hiking the price of the bikes also doesn't look like a smart move.

[raj981]

In my honest opinion......I don't think people would care what Honda calls these dealerships; Wing World or Big Wing or some other Wingy name or for that matter how the swanky the place is.
The biggest problem that Honda will face in moving their big bikes would be the fact that they just offer a standard 2 years factory warranty. No option given to extend the warranty and no service option packs.
Triumph, in comparison does 5 years and I guess BMW Motorrad does so too.

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by raj981

In my honest opinion......I don't think people would care what Honda calls these dealerships; Wing World or Big Wing or some other Wingy name or for that matter how the swanky the place is.
The biggest problem that Honda will face in moving their big bikes would be the fact that they just offer a standard 2 years factory warranty. No option given to extend the warranty and no service option packs.
Triumph, in comparison does 5 years and I guess BMW Motorrad does so too.

You seem to be misinformed. Most of us have purchased the 2+3 years extended warranty (At ~ INR 2500 IIRC). Also, the first three services (1k, 6k and 12k) were free services for my 650. These are not just namesake services but involve regular oil and filter changes. Don't think any other brand offers true free services in this segment.

[raj981]

Originally Posted by Added_flavor

You seem to be misinformed. Most of us have purchased the 2+3 years extended warranty (At ~ INR 2500 IIRC). Also, the first three services (1k, 6k and 12k) were free services for my 650. These are not just namesake services but involve regular oil and filter changes. Don't think any other brand offers true free services in this segment.

Glad to know about the factory warranty extended for you and others you know. This is the conversation snap shot with one senior wing world executive.....

[MaheshY1]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

- CB500s , all 3 bikes can do very well in India and will slot in between the CB300R and the CBR650R
- NC750X with DCT could be the perfect do it all bike for buyers who want true all rounders
- CB1100 for those who drool over real modern classics
- VFR800F cause of the VFR lineage

Can I add the CRF 250 L/Rally to the list? Even at ~4.5 lakhs, I'd not call it overpriced like the Versys 300. It anyways shares the powertrain with the CBR 250. So they can probably bring it down to Rs. ~3 lakh and pit it against the 310 GS.

I also learned at a dealership-organized ride event of the Africa, that the service and accessories costs are dirt cheap. Some Rs. 4-5K for a Rs. 15 lakh OTR motorcycle is like peanuts.

For test rides, the idea of rotation is phenomenal. Instead of the dealer investing in a bunch of expensive motorcycles, rotation is a great alternative. Each dealer can keep 1-2 test ride models at a time. And keep switching every 2-3 weeks or so. This way, the potential buyers know when they can expect a ride. They anyway don't jump out of the bed and decide to buy a motorcycle.

[Nithesh_M]

Most dealers/manufacturers are apprehensive of TR/demo bikes because a lot of dumb kids with 2 wheeler license get their hands on them, thrash them or crash them and let dealers take the fall for any mishaps. Even after dealerships started the "Pay x amount as security deposit" there have been instances of rich kids crashing demo bikes and giving dealers a big headache.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

Can I add the CRF 250 L/Rally to the list? Even at ~4.5 lakhs, I'd not call it overpriced like the Versys 300. It anyways shares the powertrain with the CBR 250. So they can probably bring it down to Rs. ~3 lakh and pit it against the 310 GS.

The CRF 250L is a lovely little motorcycle as well but for the Indian market it could be a bit of an acquired taste. Honda might want to keep the CBR 300 as the entry level premium motorcycle though, so the CRF 250L may not fit into their Big Wing plans.

Originally Posted by MaheshY1

For test rides, the idea of rotation is phenomenal. Instead of the dealer investing in a bunch of expensive motorcycles, rotation is a great alternative. Each dealer can keep 1-2 test ride models at a time. And keep switching every 2-3 weeks or so. This way, the potential buyers know when they can expect a ride. They anyway don't jump out of the bed and decide to buy a motorcycle.

The secondary problem to this test ride rotation system is that most dealerships roll out the red carpet depending on whether or not you pass the eye test i.e. whether you look rich enough to afford it. BMW and Ducati in Bangalore were / are some dealerships that indulged in this, I speak from first hand experience. So even if the test ride motorcycle was eventually available, the dealership would not be keen on letting many potential customers have a go. I remember I was chasing the Ducati Bangalore sales guy for the 959 test ride and kept hearing ridiculous stories on how the bike was unavailable every weekend. Eventually I realized they werent going to arrange the ride for me.

Originally Posted by Nithesh_M

Most dealers/manufacturers are apprehensive of TR/demo bikes because a lot of dumb kids with 2 wheeler license get their hands on them, thrash them or crash them and let dealers take the fall for any mishaps. Even after dealerships started the "Pay x amount as security deposit" there have been instances of rich kids crashing demo bikes and giving dealers a big headache.

The problem is most premium motorcycle dealerships dont know how to correctly identify potential customers and manage them. Buying and maintaining a test ride bike is a basic cost of doing business in this day and age. Paying security deposit for test rides is the worst possible solution because for every 9 time passers that you keep away, you will also ensure you drive away the few genuine potential customers as well.

[timuseravan]

In Europe/USA, there is a concept of demo bike truck managed by the manufacturer. Essentially, they have truck or two of test bikes which they move from city to city.
Could be a good solution for India with almost no cost to dealers

[samyD]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

Doubtful. And especially since Honda refuses to sell bikes like NC750x or CB500x or Rebel series which actually have potential to sell in big numbers.

100% agreed.

I fail to understand how HMSI has missed the demand for CB500x in India.
I am genuinely interested in knowing what HMSI thinks of our market and how it decides the strategy.