[CrAzY dRiVeR]

EICMA 2019: KTM has unveiled the new 2020 Duke 890 R

KTM have beefed up their potency in the midweight segment with the new KTM 890 DUKE R. Foregoing some of the excellent daily capabilities of its younger brother – the KTM 790 DUKE – the KTM 890 DUKE R is a sportier and edgier naked bike for hard riding. More power and more torque come from the new engine, which has been teamed with ‘racier’ ergonomics, better brakes, and fully adjustable WP APEX suspension. The KTM 890 DUKE R is ideal for the motorcyclist wanting a more extreme experience or searching for bigger thrills and ‘flickability’ compared to a larger capacity model.

Highlights -

• Will co-exist with the 790 Duke.
• Engine capacity has increased from 799cc to 889cc.
• Produces a peak power output of 121bhp & 99 Nm of torque. (+18hp, +12Nm)

• Brembo Stylema Monobloc four-piston, radially mounted caliper for front duties.
• Brembo single-piston floating calliper, brake disc for rear.

• WP APEX front forks with split function damping, compression and rebound settings
• WP APEX rear shock, with high and low-speed compression settings, as well as rebound adjustment. With a hydraulically adjustable preload adjuster.

• MICHELIN Powercup II hypersport tires
• Handlebars are positioned flatter, lower and further forward
• Aluminium steering stem instead of steel on the 790.

• 840mm (+15mm) seat height.
• Weight reduced by 3kg compared to the 790!

[imp!]

I wasn't expecting the weight reduction, bit wow, what great specs. The 790 R/RS model is the 890. The Striple RS may finally have some competition. Wonder when its coming to our shores.

[timuseravan]

Originally Posted by imp!

I wasn't expecting the weight reduction, bit wow, what great specs. The 790 R/RS model is the 890. The Striple RS may finally have some competition. Wonder when its coming to our shores.

Whenever they launch, KTM would need to price it better. They are having a tough time selling even the 100units of Duke 790.

[imp!]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

Whenever they launch, KTM would need to price it better. They are having a tough time selling even the 100units of Duke 790.

Don't see how they're going to do that. I'd be highly surprised if it is less than
12-13 lakhs on road in Bangalore. You are completely correct by saying that they aren't going to be price competitive in that segment. Most users would rather have the Striple S or reach for the RS given how well they work at soft touring, commuting, fun rides and tracking while being extremely refined machines.
The new Z900 is expected to be the same price as the old one, albeit with a 6 axis (9 axis?) IMU and TFT screen. As someone who loves European bikes, that bit of news had me sit up and ensure that I'll take a long look at it when the time to buy comes.

[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

Whenever they launch, KTM would need to price it better. They are having a tough time selling even the 100units of Duke 790.

After being a VFM proposition for so many years, KTM seems to be re-positioning itself in the Indian market. The 790 pricing was not something everyone was hoping for and that to me was an indication of the things to come. The Adv 390 will be significantly more expensive than the Duke 390 (as suggested by online reviews) and I'm pretty sure the next-gen Duke 390 will up the ante with the pricing. I'm not completely sure but the current Duke 390 retails at almost INR 3.2L OTR in Bangalore? That is a lac more than what the original 390 cost! The 890, on similar lines will be on par if not more expensive than the Striple RS.

I could be wrong with this but I expect the future "vfm" KTMs to be significantly downgraded models of their more expensive peers or highly restyled Pulsar NSs or Dominars.

As for the audiences, I'm not sure if this strategy will be well received or not. Would I shell out INR 4L for an Adv 390 or INR 14L for a Duke 890? At this point, no.

[GoBlue]

Originally Posted by timuseravan

Whenever they launch, KTM would need to price it better. They are having a tough time selling even the 100units of Duke 790.

KTM should target to be competitive on price as the street/track naked segment has quite a bit of options.

On the other hand if they wish to retain premium pricing, perhaps they should bring their entire product range here and demonstrate seriousness in intent. KTM India should look at how well entrenched Kawasaki is in the market and learn from that approach. Very few would consider a premium priced KTM over the European competition. The Japs are a class ahead in terms of competition (pricing as well as features).

Originally Posted by imp!

The new Z900 is expected to be the same price as the old one, albeit with a 6 axis (9 axis?) IMU and TFT screen.

The Z900 has been given riding/power modes, traction control and a color display. An IMU is not part of the upgrade.

Also the Z900 and Duke 790/890 are machines with an entirely different character and use-case. A parallel twin cylinder engine will have vastly different feel from a inline 4-cylinder equipped machine.

The Duke 790/890 has the Street Triple S/RS and the Monster 821 as direct competition. Even the Triumph Speed Twin is extremely well priced in the segment, although not a direct equivalent due to the retro looks, but a competitor on price nevertheless with a stonking 1200cc twin engine.

[ethanhunt123]

This looks like another bonkers bike by KTM looking at the spec sheet. Pricing however will remain KTM's achiles heel in India.

They clearly dont trust their Indian suppliers enough to localise it ... and they dont have a plant in Thailand to bring it via CBU route at a cheaper cost.

I agree with other folks that selling this against Striple / Z900 etc is not going to be easy - but i hope they do succeed because then we might see the really big boys from KTM lineup coming to India - the Super Duke and 1290 Adevnture range.

[giri1.8]

Power increase equivalent of our little R15, must be a cracker of an machine! KTM is surely keeping the tradition of making mad machines alive. They should surely make RC version of this machine, makes more sense for the power being put on the road (wind-blast).

[imp!]

Originally Posted by GoBlue

The Z900 has been given riding/power modes, traction control and a color display. An IMU is not part of the upgrade.

Also the Z900 and Duke 790/890 are machines with an entirely different character and use-case. A parallel twin cylinder engine will have vastly different feel from a inline 4-cylinder equipped machine.

Aah the lack of the IMU is a bummer.
Sure the nature of the bikes are very different, and, even without riding the Z900, I can already say that I'd most likely prefer the Striple to it, however, a lot of people will cross shop between these, atleast just to confirm what their hear is telling them.

Originally Posted by GoBlue

The Duke 790/890 has the Street Triple S/RS and the Monster 821 as direct competition. Even the Triumph Speed Twin is extremely well priced in the segment, although not a direct equivalent due to the retro looks, but a competitor on price nevertheless with a stonking 1200cc twin engine.

I find the current Monster rather anemic when compared to the Triumph. The Speed Twin is a fantastic bike, but you really need to like classics to chose it over the other options as an only bike. As a second or third bike, it is definitely something that would be on the shortlist for me.

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

They clearly dont trust their Indian suppliers enough to localise it ... and they dont have a plant in Thailand to bring it via CBU route at a cheaper cost.

I agree with other folks that selling this against Striple / Z900 etc is not going to be easy - but i hope they do succeed because then we might see the really big boys from KTM lineup coming to India - the Super Duke and 1290 Adevnture range.

If they don't trust their Indian suppliers, then they are in bed with the wrong people. I think it may be more a matter of whether or not they can generate enough volumes. Shame really, if they can price their premium offerings on par with what they do in the US/Europe (OTR, net price to customer) they can knock their direct competitors out of the park.

If they can manage to sell the 790 at 8-9 and 890 at 10-11 OTR in Bangalore, they will rule the roost for years to come.

Give me a 1290 Super Duke/Adv at 13-15L on road in Bangalore with KTMs service network any day over the BMW 1250GS/Tiger/Multistradas; However, price it at 20L and then I'd just buy something else, like the Aprilia Factory Tuono over the Super Duke R.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by imp!

Give me a 1290 Super Duke/Adv at 13-15L on road in Bangalore with KTMs service network any day over the BMW 1250GS/Tiger/Multistradas; However, price it at 20L and then I'd just buy something else, like the Aprilia Factory Tuono over the Super Duke R.

This is like saying give me a Porsche 911 at 30L anyday in Blr :-) Heck even i would buy one

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Sharp just got sharper. TVC for the 890 Duke R -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0pUOlQM13M

[imp!]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

This is like saying give me a Porsche 911 at 30L anyday in Blr :-) Heck even i would buy one

Sad part is it's not out of the realm of possibility. It's only a question of greed that prevents it from happening. KTM (not counting RE for obvious reasons, but the too) have shown with the Duke 390 that they can make and sell an international spec bike at the same price in India as they do in the West.

What do you feel would happen if Tata takes true advantage of JLR tech and brings in Value Tata cars south of 30L and JLR vehicles at UK prices? They can do it, but they don't All of a sudden you'll find the entire industry in India adjusting for this.

I had hoped that Tesla cars and KTM bikes would do this. Elon Musk has the personality and the long term vision to pull it off while KTM had the intent with the Duke 390 pricing. Sadly they've all lost their way now.

[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by imp!

Sad part is it's not out of the realm of possibility. It's only a question of greed that prevents it from happening. KTM (not counting RE for obvious reasons, but the too) have shown with the Duke 390 that they can make and sell an international spec bike at the same price in India as they do in the West.

What do you feel would happen if Tata takes true advantage of JLR tech and brings in Value Tata cars south of 30L and JLR vehicles at UK prices? They can do it, but they don't All of a sudden you'll find the entire industry in India adjusting for this.

Oh my god, why would Tata bring JLR tech at those prices!!?? Are they stupid enough to lose their JLR clientele? And why would KTM localize the 1290 series and sell them at the prices you want them to!!??
You become market leaders with your bread and butter models (Duke 200/250/390, Tiago/Tigor in Tata's case) and not by diluting your premium products into a lower price range!

I will admit that the D790 was a tricky one. Even I was hoping for a pricing miracle but it turned out the opposite. With the 790, you can sort of understand KTM's intent for it's future in India.

[Slick]

Originally Posted by imp!

Sad part is it's not out of the realm of possibility. It's only a question of greed that prevents it from happening. KTM (not counting RE for obvious reasons, but the too) have shown with the Duke 390 that they can make and sell an international spec bike at the same price in India as they do in the West.

What do you feel would happen if Tata takes true advantage of JLR tech and brings in Value Tata cars south of 30L and JLR vehicles at UK prices? They can do it, but they don't All of a sudden you'll find the entire industry in India adjusting for this.

I had hoped that Tesla cars and KTM bikes would do this. Elon Musk has the personality and the long term vision to pull it off while KTM had the intent with the Duke 390 pricing. Sadly they've all lost their way now.

I think the price has more to do with taxation and localization.
From the looks of it, Bajaj and KTM have an understanding that the premium products get produced in Austria as earlier and the price sensitive products get made here.

KTM cannot move the manufacturing of one product here and maintain the parity between the two bases, they would effectively have to reduce costs in their home Austrian base while also investing in the Indian base.

All these sacrifices for a market which might not really buy a lot of these 790s/ 890s seems bad business sense.

Though I think every Indian biker would just love if KTM did it .

Same goes for Tata, though Tata exerts much more control on JLR than Bajaj does on KTM.

- Slick

[ethanhunt123]

From what i know from a friend who works in KTM - they did have plans to manufacture Duke 790 from India. But they had to change plans once they realised that they they cant get the same quality bike produced in India as a cost much lower than in Austria - if they localize too much then quality was being affected. This is OK for a budget bike like D390 but not in a segment like D790.

PS: Even for Ninja 300 - you can easily make out the difference in quality between earlier CKD model and new localized model