[pratik_terni]

MODS: Please feel free to place it in the right thread if this does not deserve a separate one.

Hello All, This is Pratik and I currently am in Bangalore. Please be advised that this is a long and maybe a boring post, so please feel free to skip to the last paragraph. I have been a regular reader for a very long time (close to 12-13 years maybe) but this is my first post on the forum.

Background: I have owned a CBR 250R for the last 8 years and have done close to 33k kms on the bike mainly in the first 6 years of ownership (almost 0 rides in Covid). The 33k kms include city plus weekend rides to places close to Bangalore, farthest being Pondicherry (393 kms one way due to the lovely Vellore route that we chose). 99% of the trips are mainly me and my wife deciding a place and me riding there with wifey as pillion.

The only bigger bike that I rode slightly extensively was the rented Interceptor which we rode to Hampi and back. I have never ridden a super bike except this and the test rides but more on that a bit later.

Confusion: The CBR 250R is a beautiful bike and super reliable, I never really enjoyed riding it and I have still held on to it for 8 years cos it is that reliable, has alloys and is decently powered for long rides. I actually wanted to buy a Duke 390 but the horror stories of reliability issues back in 2014 were enough to keep me away from it.

Now I am looking for a middleweight upgrade (preferably naked) to my CBR 250r and the usage would primarily be city and weekend rides as mentioned earlier. This would mostly be a used bike cos I want to restrict the budget to 9 lakhs max. It would definitely not hurt to upgrade by not using that entire budget. I am thinking something in the 70-80 bhp range.

I don't think a 100+ bhp bike would really make sense because:
1. I may not have the skills for handling it
2. The engine heat and subjecting the bigger bike to Bangalore traffic would not be fair to the bike and me
3. I don't know where I'd even use that much power to really enjoy a 100 bhp bike without the right skills

My primary expectations from the bike are:
1. Pillion comfort because WIFE
1. Fun to ride bike which is manageable in city traffic and tight tip toeing spots. I am not fat but not skinny either, lazy with a height of 5' 10". And nowhere close to being fit.
2. Good ground clearance
3. I do not want an attention magnet

I know I have put 2 points up there as number 1 because my wife might read this.

Attempts to solve the above problem:
Kawasaki z 650: It was a good short test ride and was quick and comfortable. That twin cylinder engine does not sound that good and when you ride the triples, it's clear that you are never going to settle for the twin exhaust note.
Triumph Street Twin: This test ride was a big surprise as I did not expect the bike to be that easy to handle.Accessing and Ease of handling probably felt the best of the lot to us. It is decently powerful and sounded good too. But discarded it because the downers were low ground clearance, lack of sixth gear and chain maintenance every 500kms.
One other thing that could be an issue is lack of tyre options for the 18 inch front wheel.
Triumph Street Triple R/RS: I know this is not at all a sensible option but the R was not available. This is the only bike that does not satisfy the 70-80 bhp criteria, is expensive, my wife hated it in the first 10 mins. BUT, the way that bike rode, the engine note, the way it picked up speed, the effortless handling was just enough to forget the street twin I rode.

My wife cursed me the entire ride because she felt like she was holding on to dear life the first time. She was not at all prepared for the test ride (read Indian attire) because we just decided to go try it out.

Triumph Trident: We revisited the Triumph showroom this time better dressed and with very high expectations due to the videos that I had watched. We really liked the way the trident felt. It kind of felt that it was somewhat offering best of both Street Triple and Street Twin. It was comfortable, had a sweet sounding triple engine and has just the right amount of power on paper. I did feel that the throttle response was a bit delayed but as per the videos, traction control can be turned off to address it. We do feel this will be ideal for my use case.
We also retried the Street Triple RS but the response from home ministry was the same, though it is a better bike, it was not that comfortable.
Triumph Tiger Sport 660:
It had same engine characteristics, higher riding position with a screen to protect from the wind blasts for those weekend rides. So obviously better than the Trident right? Wrong. The seat was very good for me but the pillion seat is shaped so far away that it was wierd. Our helmets kept hitting each other and there was a gap between me and my wife. We quickly happily jumped back on the Trident that the Triumph rep was riding halfway through the test ride.
RE Interceptor: Nice and fun bike, most affordable and underpowered of the lot but i felt it could do with 20-25% more power. The seat was also uncomfortable and we took a couple of more breaks during our Hampi ride than we normally do. The lack of alloys has really stopped me from picking up this bike. This bike is really a fallback option for me since it is cheaper than the other options and i can surely save a good amount of money which i can then experiment with modifications. But again, this was not a bike that i loved, just liked it.

I know I should also be trying the Honda 650 siblings, CB500x and the V Strom 650 but the dealerships in Bangalore do not have test ride bikes, nor any clarity on when they'd be available.
I did not try inline 4s like Kawasaki z900 and Suzuki Gsxs 750 in this budget cos 100+ bhp, though I may test ride the z900 just for fun.

Busy members please read from here: Enough of my blabbering, I'll get to the point. I feel I'll be happy with a Trident but the Street Triple R has a lot more to offer for just 2 lakhs more. That may not necessarily mean that it makes it a better option for me because it will heat up more, will need seat modifications to make the pillion comfortable and i am assuming will grab some attention. But it will give me the best naked that there is in the market which is fun to ride. How to get these in the used market is another major concern for me but lets address that later. As a humble request to the forum members, please let me know your thoughts and please feel free to suggest alternatives/options.

[shancz]

Never ridden either of those but the Speed Triple is the best naked out there IMHO.

Your requirements seem to be fulfilled by the Trident not the Speed Triple.
Adding two lakhs more doesn't get you an upgrade of the Trident but a completely different motorcycle.
Adding a more comfortable seat isn't going to take away the brutal acceleration and the power to weight ratio.

Get a Speed Triple for yourself but for a pillion look elsewhere.
Something like a Z650RS would look good and a Versys 650 though bulky would score highly on pillion comfort.
But if it's the sound that moves you then look at inline 3 and 4 cylinders only.

GSX750/CB650R would sound good but do check on the weight and pillion comfort.

[neil.jericho]

pratik_terni, welcome to the forum. From your post, the problem statement (intended usage) is pretty clear. However, your solution (options considered) seem to diverge from the conventional choices in the motorcycle enthusiast community.

First things first, among the superbike dealerships in Bangalore, Triumph has by far the worst SVC. The horror stories that we get to know of, are simply mind boggling. Please do research on this before buying a new Triumph motorcycle in Bangalore. We have a dedicated thread on this forum that covers Triumph's SVCs. As a Triumph owner, I would strongly discourage anyone from buying a new bike or a used bike with warranty, in Bangalore and Cochin, where the quality of the SVCs is highly questionable.

Secondly, if you are going to be touring two-up, for 99% of the time, then you are looking at the wrong bikes.

Thirdly, if you are going to be using your next big bike in the city, again, you are looking at the wrong bikes.

Looking strictly at your stated usage criteria, the following bikes stand out for their all round usability
- Honda CB500X (new)
- Honda CB650R / CBR650R / CB650F (used)

I would suggest that you get the Honda CB500X. You will be able to tour in peace and ride around town, without a worry. Yes, test ride bikes arent available at the moment. You might have to wait for a month or so, before the latest generation bike gets launched. Several TBHPians own the current generation CB500X and have shared very positive feedback on its usability for our tough conditions.

In case you are wondering, Kawasaki and Honda offer the best after sales service in Bangalore.

Do remember that you will likely be buying a motorcycle that you will keep for several years. So, dont rush into a decision tomorrow, just because test rides of one or two bikes are readily available. Bide your time and test ride all the options in your budget. Happy shopping!

[SoumenD]

Agreed with Neil here. For your intended use-case Honda 500X seems tailor-made. Would be a great upgrade from your current Honda in terms of power as well as service backup. Do give it a serious thought & test ride

[pratik_terni]

Originally Posted by shancz

Never ridden either of those but the Speed Triple is the best naked out there IMHO.
..
Something like a Z650RS would look good and a Versys 650 though bulky would score highly on pillion comfort.

Thank you shancz for your reply. I agree that the Speed Triple could be the best naked out there but am not even considering it since it is a most probably a beast...on steroids. I should have been clearer that the Street triple is the best middleweight naked and that's what is being considered. Please ignore this comment if you indeed meant the street triple.

When i test rode the z650, I did hop on the Versys 650. That was enough for me to understand that the bike is not for me cos it did feel huge and heavy. It was enough to make me realize i will constantly be worried about its weight when i ride it, in case i drop it or in tight spots. That worry is one thing that i definitely do not want from my next bike...not that i will be careless with bikes.....but want to be free of a constant concern at the back of my head. I should have stated this earlier that my CBR has also strangely felt heavy at times when i was not paying attention.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

pratik_terni, welcome to the forum. From your post, the problem statement (intended usage) is pretty clear. However, your solution (options considered) seem to diverge from the conventional choices in the motorcycle enthusiast community.
...
Do remember that you will likely be buying a motorcycle that you will keep for several years. So, dont rush into a decision tomorrow, just because test rides of one or two bikes are readily available. Bide your time and test ride all the options in your budget. Happy shopping!

Thank you very much Neil for the welcome and for the reply. I was really hoping for you to read my queries and provide your inputs. One of the reason was that you ride the street triple 675 and have even recommended on one of the other threads of picking up a used 675r. At one point i even had thought of a 675R but the famous stalling issue discouraged that thought.

I have read about the horror stories of the Triumph SVC and that is exactly why i have no intentions of buying a new Triumph bike...none at all.
But would it also be a bad idea to by a used Triumph bike and get it serviced at a place like Highland Ventures in Bangalore. That's where i get my CBR serviced and have read really good things about the place as well. They do service superbikes. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

This may sound like i am stuck on the Trident, but the bike seems ideal for the city, even the reviews have suggested this. My wife was very comfortable during our 2 short test rides and in fact she even liked the bike, enough to ask me to go ahead and buy it. We saw someone's Trident at the showroom with a top box. This kind of made her feel that the top box would help as a back rest during long rides adding to the comfort. That is just an assumption though, not that she sat on that bike to check it out. Can you please let me know why you think that this is not a good option? It would really help me understand your opinion better.

I completely agree with you on the CB500X and the CB650R. I will surely test drive and report my findings here. Time to call the good folks at Honda Big wing again for a test ride.

I have read your comment on the CB500X thread about the price, but i just can't get comfortable with the fact that the bike costs 7 Lakhs, same with the price of the 650 siblings. I dont know how to explain this, but at that price points, head kicks in and starts to think that there are other alternatives wither powerful, cheaper, better in some aspects and so on, not that they make sense for my use case E.g.: KTM ADV 390, Ninja 100, Interceptor etc. but like i said not that they make sense, but just saying.

One other thing is that I was originally planning to stop myself at a MAX of 7.5 lakhs. I just cannot stretch to 12 lakhs for a bike at this point.

The part that i highlighted in your comment above was definitely needed for me. Thanks again

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Agreed with Neil here. For your intended use-case Honda 500X seems tailor-made. Would be a great upgrade from your current Honda in terms of power as well as service backup. Do give it a serious thought & test ride

Thanks SoumenD for the response. I'll surely try the 500X and update here.

[Shanmd]

Hey Pratik

I ride a 4 month old Trident on the streets of Bombay. And let me tell you.. I love it. It has become a "premium commuter" bike for me. I look for reasons to take it and not the car. Any will do. Went on a couple of smallish rides.. including one impulsive Pune and back. My ass got used to the seat pretty quickly. Have a Givi/Triumph Tank bag and am considering couple of tailbags as options. All in all, excitement is all in the air. lol

But I have consciously chosen it to be a selfish experience. I'm 5'10 not marathon fit, but fit nevertheless.. and never thought it would be comfortable for the pillion. The seat kind of ends suddenly. So I am really surprised that you two found it apt in this.

SVC reputation is indeed a huge factor in deciding. My years old list had MT09, Monster 797, Leoncino & Interceptor. First was not sold here, second has world's worst SVC rep in the country, third was a vibrating mess, and the fourth became a dealbreaker due to wheels. Trident came pretty late to the equation. Triple was always the eye-catcher with those bug-eyed lamps. But it's a hooligan experience. The Trident has that quiet unassuming stance.. till you get on and thumb it. Very nimble and balanced on the roads, and not too heavy. It kind of ticked everything on my list. A couple of Triumph owners I knew had shifted cities and were happy with the SVC here.. and so I decided. And that has been a good experience till now.

I am returning to riding after a couple of decades of four wheels. And found the Trident the most welcoming. I found it gentle in handling my mistakes, exhilarating on open roads, doesn't roast my limbs at the red lights and piled traffic, flies under the attention radar until the person is right next to me, and generally being beautiful to the eye.

Still I have reservations about the pillion experience.

[killjoy]

Street Triple R - nothing much to choose here

[Vasuki]

Originally Posted by pratik_terni

Triumph Street Twin: This test ride was a big surprise as i did not expect the bike to be that easy to handle.Accessing and Ease of handling probably felt the best of the lot to us. It is decently powerful and sounded good too. But discarded it because the downers were low ground clearance, lack of sixth gear and chain maintenance every 500kms.

Not only street twin almost all bikes in this category has more or less this interval.

It is better to clean & lube the chain every 500KMS. This is common to all chain-driven bikes.

[Sman999]

@pratik_terni

I had the same confusion as you.

I test rode the CB500x and was in love with the weight balance and easy going nature of the engine, but by the time i was about to book the bike was sold out for 2022 until the next iteration come in for which there is no expected launch date yet.

So i decided to test ride the Triumphs and the Honda CB650R. I have quite an experience with a Versys 650 as my uncle owns one and i never loved the vibey twin much. I didn't want a second Kawasaki in home, So didn't consider the kawasaki 650s.

Trident didn't feel like a big bike to me and the throttle feels disconnected due to the ride by wire. And i wont forget the most intrusive traction control of the Triumph. Didn't even test ride the Tiger sport 660 because its the same setup on different clothing and costs more than 10lakhs.

The Street triples were too sporty for me. Also i was worried about maintaining a Triumph though due to expensive spares.

Never considered the Honda CB650R due to its high price tag and when i test rode one i was impressed and i ended up booking one. After riding the CB650R i felt like the CB500x was not powerful enough and boring. Moreover i was not ready to wait indefinitely and again hear the price increased to 8.5 lakhs onroad for the 500X. The ride quality was superb on the CB500X.

Coming to the 650R, if you don't like the characteristic of the inline 4s then you probably wont like it. But, Its very calm and commuter-ish up until 4-5k rpm. Then it unleashes it self and becomes a different animal. It can be used as a daily bike and it blends well in the city and doesn't attract any attention until you rev it and expose the inline 4 symphony.

Pillion comfort is not bad. The seat has enough room but the pillion footrests are placed a bit high for my liking and it must be altered for a comfortable long ride.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by pratik_terni

Please ignore this comment if you indeed meant the street triple.

I meant the Speed Triple 765, the 1200 doesn't even cross my mind

Second what the other experienced members have already mentioned.
The only thing I would say is if you decide to move away from the Trident then do check the Honda CB650R/CBR650R, primarily for the 4 cylinder symphony as the others would be 2 cylinder units.
Goes without saying this is coming from someone who has never owned a big bike so other members can guide you better.

Good Luck

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by pratik_terni

I feel I'll be happy with a Trident but the street triple r has a lot more to offer for just 2 lakhs more. That may not necessarily mean that it makes it a better option for me cos it will heat up more, will need seat modifications to make the pillion comfortable and i am assuming will grab some attention

Pratik, I own the 2022 Street Triple RS, just forget it if you are looking for pillion comfort. Try as you might, your wife will never be comfortable on it. This bike is for I, me and myself only I wouldn’t get the Trident either for regular two up riding.

I would suggest you look at the Kawasaki Versys 650 for the happy ever (ok maybe not ever ) after story with your wife or maybe the Honda CB500X. My pick would be the Versys 650 for your use case. Don’t worry, take a couple more test rides, the weight will disappear as you get used to it.

Cheers

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by pratik_terni

Triumph Street Triple R/RS: I know this is not at all a sensible option but the R was not available. This is the only bike that does not satisfy the 70-80 bhp criteria, is expensive, my wife hated it in the first 10 mins.
BUT, the way that bike rode, the engine note, the way it picked up speed, the effortless handling was just enough to forget the street twin i rode.
My wife cursed me the entire ride cos she felt like she was holding on to dear life the first time. She was not at all prepared for the test ride (read Indian attire) cos we just decided to go try it out.

Busy members please read from here: Enough of my blabbering, I'll get to the point. I feel I'll be happy with a Trident but the street triple r has a lot more to offer for just 2 lakhs more.

To your specific question: Street Triple R vs Trident 660

The Street Triple R any day of the week!! Its just better built and a FAR superior machine to the Trident in every single respect, right from quality levels to the performance. That extra 2 lakh is disproportionate to what you’re getting in return.

BUT,

as Neil and some others have already pointed out, is it really the bike for you. I would also agree that bikes like Versys 650, VStrom 650 and the Honda 500X suit your use case MUCH better. Amongst these three I feel the VStrom / the Versys will probably feel a distinct notch nicer than the Honda.

The other option would be to save a ton of money and consider either the 390 Adventure or a 310 GS. Both are extremely capable bikes but of course the first three options will be that notch superior on most fronts - comfort for two up touring as well as the overall riding experience. Test ride these three bikes and see which one appeals to you the most in terms of its “connect”.

[pratik_terni]

Thank you all for taking out time to respond to my query, it really means a lot.I wasn't expecting so many responses.
I called the Honda Big Wing here in Bangalore. I was pleasantly surprised to know that they do have the CB650R for test ride with them. It was out for a breakfast ride though, so the test ride has to wait for next Saturday. I asked them twice to make sure i wasn't deaf and that they indeed were talking about the CB650R.

The CB500X on the other hand is a different story. No news on it and the Big Wing folks are expecting the FY22 model to show up in November.

Originally Posted by Shanmd

I ride a 4 month old Trident on the streets of Bombay. And let me tell you.. I love it. It has become a "premium commuter" bike for me. I look for reasons to take it and not the car.
...
Still I have reservations about the pillion experience.

Hey Shanmd, your views are definitely inline with what i felt, have read and seen in videos, that the Trident is not going to be bad on city streets. I am really waiting for Niel to respond to get to know his view about city rides.
After reading you response, i asked my pillion again, twice whether she was comfortable. Her response - yeah not bad, the seat was small but manageable. Now that's a risky response.

Originally Posted by killjoy

Street Triple R - nothing much to choose here

I agree that the Street Triple R is a superior bike but i have to agree with the responses here that it does not seem suited for my needs

Originally Posted by Vasuki

Not only street twin almost all bikes in this category has more or less this interval.
It is better to clean & lube the chain every 500KMS. This is common to all chain-driven bikes.

I was under the impression that most of the super bikes can also be ridden for 1000 kms before the next chain adjustment. I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by Sman999

@pratik_terni
I had the same confusion as you.
...
Pillion comfort is not bad. The seat has enough room but the pillion footrests are placed a bit high for my liking and it must be altered for a comfortable long ride.

Hey Sman999, I had also read about the throttle input and felt it was a bit delayed when i test rode the Trident and Tiger Sport. I even mentioned about it to another gentleman who was there to test ride the Tiger Sport 660....And got the same feedback. The sales rep on the other hand did not find it any different, which was an expected response.

The CB650R and CB500X are on the top of the list now since everyone has very strong and positive feedbacks for them, especially the CB500X. But i kinda have a feeling that the inline 4 symphony is going to be irresistable.

Originally Posted by shancz

I meant the Speed Triple 765, the 1200 doesn't even cross my mind
...
Good Luck

hey shancz, thanks for clearing my doubt. The 1200 cc triple is called the Speed triple and the 765cc triple is called the street triple. That is why your response got me confused.

Originally Posted by Cyborg

This bike is for I, me and myself only
...
the weight will disappear as you get used to it. Cheers

hello Cyborg.8
This is a typical case of "That's what she said". My wife said the exact same thing, that she wont join me for any rides and i can enjoy the bike alone. I guess we both know what that means.

I'll probably test ride the Versys 650 when I drop in for the Z900. Sorry to say though that i really don't think i could consider the Versys. Not that it is a bad bike but it is huge. In fact it is a wonderful bike and would just need getting used to, as you rightly suggested. I would probably considered and maybe even picked it up sooner had i not been intimidated by the sheer bulk of the bike.

Originally Posted by Axe77

To your specific question: Street Triple R vs Trident 660
...
Test ride these three bikes and see which one appeals to you the most in terms of its “connect”.

hello Axe77, your point is duly noted. I do intend to test ride the V Strom 650, and i had dropped in the KTM showroom for a test ride of the 390 ADV as well. But unfortunately, they also did not have a test ride model. I was promised that the bike would be brought to my doorstep for a test ride, I am still waiting. I shall test ride the options you suggested over the next weekend and shall respond here.

The fact that none of the Triumph products were recommended des speak volumes of how bad things are at the SVC.
It is really disappointing to know that the beautiful products offered by Triumph and wasted due to the incompetence of the SVCs. I seriously hope and pray that Triumph does manage to somehow magically fix this.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by pratik_terni

I'll probably test ride the Versys 650 when I drop in for the Z900. Sorry to say though that i really don't think i could consider the Versys. Not that it is a bad bike but it is huge. In fact it is a wonderful bike and would just need getting used to, as you rightly suggested. I would probably considered and maybe even picked it up sooner had i not been intimidated by the sheer bulk of the bike.

Main thing is take your time! Don’t be in a hurry even though our heart does not want to listen to the head where bikes are concerned at the very least

Vasuki is saying clean and lube the chain every 400-500 kilometres or so depending upon your riding conditions. This does not entail chain adjustment. These are very different things, for chain adjustment take it to the service centre or any competent mechanic. For cleaning and lubing the chain you could either do it yourself or if you are lazy (like me) you could get someone to do it for you. I pay 300 rupees to someone who does it for me.

Any of these big bikes may feel intimidating initially (depending upon your experience) due to the weight or power output or the way it makes its power through the rev range. If keep your head on your shoulders and control that right wrist you should be all right. Don’t stress on this point, it will come to you with riding time.

Happy hunting Pratik.

Cheers

[shancz]

Originally Posted by pratik_terni

The 1200 cc triple is called the Speed triple and the 765cc triple is called the street triple. That is why your response got me confused.

You are absolutely right and you're going to laugh at this. I always meant to say the Street Triple but since I had to factory reset the phone it had that darn auto correct enabled until now
I was typing without noticing this and somehow never expected to get the name of Street Triple wrong (a sin in my books).

Thank You for being so patient in your responses, I am out of words will try to emulate the same in case I come across something of this nature.

Sharing an experience, hope it helps you in any way :

On the sound part, a friend was looking to own his first and last(reflexes and family duties permitting) big bike and was confused between the Hyperstrada, Monster and Ninja 1000.
He said he always dreamt of owning a big bike. I asked if his dreams sounded like the twin cylinders or did they zoom like the 4 cylinders ? He got the Ninja 1000 shortly after that and told me that he would have been disappointed had he bought a twin.

He also had the pillion comfort criteria as his wife was part financing the bike. He had said that the Versys has the most comfortable seat and ride but the tall seat meant that managing the weight with a pillion in metro city traffic especially on U turns wasn't desirable. He tried the Ninja1000 which was much better and the seat was comfortable enough for the pillion.

One more thing is that he started his hunt with the 650s and I had immediately recommended the Speed Triple 675. He spent some super confusing weeks in a dilemna until he visited the Kawasaki showroom to check the 650s. The SE(Sales Executive) there said that why not get the Ninja1000 and use it in the L1 mode which restricts the power to 100bhp and move to the next mode when you feel confident enough.
This argument had moved him from the 650s to the 1000 camp. Turned out to be economically wise too as the Ninja1000 was 9.99 lakhs ex showroom then.

Only thing he was absolutely sure about was that this was going to be his first and last "dream" bike. He was riding the Duke 390 and Classic 500 till that point.

Hope it helps in clearing some air and apologies if it kicks up more dust, like the Speed Triple fiasco earlier