[androdev]

Originally Posted by sridhu

I am surprised that you have not talked at all about the relative technical or perceived merits of either car...

For most urban users looking for a car of this segment, either of these two cars will do just fine. I agree with you that the decision making process feels incomplete with just using pre-sales experience criteria but I guess Devdath did not wish to repeat Endy vs Fortuner discussion which is available in abundance on this forum.

If I read between the lines, the OP is sharing an experience that is far too common in our lives where the shortlist contains two near-equal choices and simple things can influence the decision. We all recognise interactions that reek of "we sell so much of it, we don't have to try hard". Bad pre-sales experience can ruin the sale of an extremely competent product.

And I personally feel the OP should thank the Toyota sales guy because Endy is a better product Unless someone wants to clock a lot of mileage and own the car for many years, it is fair to say there are competent and arguably better alternatives to all Toyota cars in the market.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by androdev

but I guess Devdath did not wish to repeat Endy vs Fortuner discussion which is available in abundance on this forum.

Bang On...!!!

Originally Posted by androdev

And I personally feel the OP should thank the Toyota sales guy because Endy is a better product Unless someone wants to clock a lot of mileage and own the car for many years, it is fair to say there are competent and arguably better alternatives to all Toyota cars in the market.

Completely agreed. The Endeavour is a significantly better product and my friend AND his family are very excited with the purchase and the "feel great" factor that is offers over the Fortuner.

EVERY Toyota car in India on sale has a better alternative today.

[sridhu]

Originally Posted by n.devdath

Bang On...!!!



Completely agreed. The Endeavour is a significantly better product and my friend AND his family are very excited with the purchase and the "feel great" factor that is offers over the Fortuner.

EVERY Toyota car in India on sale has a better alternative today.

Sorry; I do not mean to labour a point (I am not THAT guy on the internet!) but you initial post did read like you based the buying decision purely on the sales experience.

While there are plenty of review on this forum & others on every conceivable product, obviously you think it is essential to make up your own (your friend's?) mind by personal experience. Otherwise why bother with a TD? The reviews were there before and finding the price is a simple matter. You had all the info you need to make a decision, in the paradigm you outline. Evidently you needed more.

The point of writing about it, I thought, was giving the rest of us your point of view on why that product made sense for your needs. And the other one did not.

The buying experience is certainly part of the decision matrix. But I was calling you out on the fact that your post implied that that was the most important consideration in your decision.

I am no fanboy of Toyota. To me, the experience of the previous Innova's bullet proof reliability over 250k Km and 10 years was a major factor in choosing the Crysta. The minute the Toyota screws up on that promise, I will vote with my wallet when I buy my next car. So, of course there are alternatives to Toyota & the Crysta.

Which is precisely why your thought process & evaluation parameters are of value to others in this scenario.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by sridhu

Sorry; I do not mean to labour a point (I am not THAT guy on the internet!) but you initial post did read like you based the buying decision purely on the sales experience.

To each, his own. Androdev has summed it brilliantly and I dont see any point in repeating the same.

Originally Posted by sridhu

The point of writing about it, I thought, was giving the rest of us your point of view on why that product made sense for your needs. And the other one did not.

Enough has been said about the products on this forum and elsewhere. If you singularly wish a repetition, let's take it offline.

Originally Posted by sridhu

I am no fanboy of Toyota. To me, the experience of the previous Innova's bullet proof reliability over 250k Km and 10 years was a major factor in choosing the Crysta.

Doesnt sound like it.
Let the Endeavour be proven unreliable and then compare figures.

[Turbanator]

Here's what I picked 10 days back, after 2 Endeavour's, I have already travelled 2500 Km mostly in Central India & Gujarat, now on the way back to Gurgaon from Kandla, more details follows

[roby_dk]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Here's what I picked 10 days back, after 2 Endeavour's, I have already travelled 2500 Km mostly in Central India & Gujarat, now on the way back to Gurgaon from Kandla, more details follows

Congratulations.

BTW can we all know more about your buying decision? Which one do you feel better Endeavour or Fortuner. Also how are you managing with black films in Chandigarh.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Here's what I picked 10 days back, after 2 Endeavour's

This is going to be epic, a Toyota after 2 Fords....eagerly waiting for your detailed report on WHY, WHAT & HOW?.

BTW, The pic looks like it was taken at at an FNG. True?

[Surprise]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Here's what I picked 10 days back, after 2 Endeavour's, I have already travelled 2500 Km mostly in Central India & Gujarat, now on the way back to Gurgaon from Kandla, more details follows

Any chance at least one of those endy's a 2016 launched one? If yes, it would be really interesting to go through your take on Toyota experience.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by Surprise

Any chance at least one of those endy's a 2016 launched one? If yes, it would be really interesting to go through your take on Toyota experience.

Yes, we still have the older Trend, being used by my colleague in Ahmedabad. It has done over 80000 Km and apart from regular services, wear & tear parts, nothing else has been replaced to my knowledge. However, the maintenance and fuel costs are definitely higher and my colleague is now also using Toyota Liva to keep his monthly allocated budgets in check.

I find the costs and need to change the rotors with brake pads expensive and FORD dealers don't have skimming machines at the workshop, unlike Toyota dealers. I am trying to get an excel sheet of the expenses on the Endy and will post here if I am able to get all data.

Now coming to this Endy sale vs new Fortuner, sometime in December, I decided to reduce the number of cars and sold a couple of BMW's and also included Endy in that sale as I got a very good value. My Endy had done less than 5000 Km and I got close to my Ex-showroom prices in resales so practically I lost only registration which in Chandigarh is not much (around 1,6 Lac) plus the costs of tyre upgrades.

A few weeks later, I had this BMW fiasco

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-resolved.html

Even my X5 had a tyre damage and I felt the need to have a reliable workhorse which I can take anywhere at any time. I checked LC, LX Range Rover, some old LC and Prados but somehow could not justify the premium for newer LC & LX and never found any good old LC or Prado. Similarly, didn't have the courage to plonk 2,5 Cr on Tata- JLR product, being an EMI person and with BMW experience in the back of my mind.

During one of the calls, while checking new Prado, local Dealer in Delhi offered me a Manual Fortuner from December 2017 at Un-Toyota like discounts ( 1,25 Lac basic discount + 30 K Toyota accessories) Now, I had previously picked New Endy after comparing with sluggish Auto Fortuner but have heard some good things about the manual Fortuner and since I wanted to have a vehicle for highway runs, it suited me. A quick test drive and a couple of hours later I picked this Truck.

A big Thanks to Mod. Anshuman for accompanying me on a short notice to the Dealer stockyard in evening for PDi and delivery, above picture was clicked by him

Tyres were changed the next day to Yoko - G015 - Size 275. Yoko is the unanimous choice in our group here for all SUV tyres.



The same day I left for a longish trip which was originally planned on the X5 .



In the next 7 days I visited - Gwalior, Bhopal, Indore, Ahmedabad, Gandhidham and then back to Gurgaon. Over 3500 Km and the vehicle performed without a fuss as expected. At Ahmedabad, I got chance to check the Endy back to back and confirm some points

1 Engine Sound in Endy is less than Fortuner but after a while, you get used to Fortuner sound so nothing much to fret
2 Manual gearbox on the Fortuner is better for spirited driving whereas the Auto on Endy or Fortuner is friendly for urban traffic.
3 Overall Body roll on the new Fortuner is far controlled then Endy and so is the front seat comfort. I am yet to sit on the rear of Fortuner for long but I expect it to be better than Endy for sure.
4 Quality of switchgear and plastics/ Leather on Fortuner is better then Endeavour. Now, this may be debatable but from my own experience, I find Toyota quality and the feel better. However, the roof fabric -black on Endy is better then Fortuner.
5 Toyota has saved money on a lot of places like missing struts on the bonnet or cladding in the tyre well area but I feel whatever they have offered is of good quality and is built to last.
6 Headlamps on the Fortuner are definitely better than Endy (even over the Titanium). Newer LED Fog lamps supplement low beam very well.
7 Real world average on 120 + Speeds and city traffic on Fortuner - Manual is far better than Auto Endy.

Have a look at this picture which includes urban and high-speed highway run. Do factor small ODO error due to the tyre upgrade.





So, if someone has to make a call between the two, I think there won't be one clear winner, for some Panoramic roof will be important and for others ease and costs of services. In the end, it will all come over to the requirements and compromises one is willing to make while choosing.


Overall, Toyota Fortuner will definitely be a cheaper car to run and maintain and will fetch better resales.

Originally Posted by karan561

Hope you are enjoying downshifting / revv matching iMT

Yes, Great feature that actually works, though I am used to matching revs by my experience from the Ambassador days.

[karan561]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

1 Engine Sound in Endy is less than Fortuner but after a while, you get used to Fortuner sound so nothing much to fret
2 Manual gearbox on the Fortuner is better for spirited driving whereas the Auto on Endy or Fortuner is friendly for urban traffic.
3 Overall Body roll on the new Fortuner is far controlled then Endy and so is the front seat comfort. I am yet to sit on the rear of Fortuner for long but I expect it to be better than Endy for sure.
4 Quality of switchgear and plastics/ Leather on Fortuner is of better quality then Endeavour - now this may be debatable but from my own experience, I find Toyota quality and the feel better. However, the roof fabric -black on Endy is better then Fortuner.
5 Toyota has saved money on a lot of places like missing struts on the bonnet or cladding in the tyre well area but I feel whatever they have offered is of good quality and is built to last.
6 Headlamps on the Fortuner are definitely better than Endy (even over the Titanium). Newer LED Fog lamps supplement low beam very well.
7 Real world average on 120 + Speeds and city traffic on Fortuner - Manual is far better than Auto Endy.

^ Great points/observations, also congratulations on buying the 4x4 Manual Fortuner (the real deal Fortuner variant IMO)

Hope you are enjoying downshifting / revv matching iMT

Have a look at this picture which includes urban and high-speed highway run. Do factor small ODO error due to the tyre upgrade.

Interestingly my Fortuner too had the same " 79 " no. barcode sticker pasted on the cluster

Check it out;

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post4117104

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Now, I had previously picked New Endy after comparing with sluggish Auto Fortuner but have heard some good things about the manual Fortuner and since I wanted to have a vehicle for highway runs, it suited me.

True that.
The Fortuner AT is indeed sluggish compared to the Endy and that is a significant put-off to many.
That apart, it's a battle between luxury and perceived reliability.
Normal service costs don't seem to be very far apart due to Ford's Service Price Promise.

A few wear and year parts will prolly be slightly expensive, nothing like the Germans though.

Lastly, since the Endy doesn't have a manual variant, for someone who needs a manual, the slick shifting Fortuner suits the bill to a T.

[ddndrive]

Endeavour comes out on top again (under Rs. 35 Lac category) in the recent test done by Autocar India . Overall it scored even better than Skoda Kodiaq .

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...35-lakh-410201

[Sheel]

This is how you sit as the 5th passenger in the Ford Endeavor 3.2 Titanium. Horrible, neither the seats were comfortable and you of course can see the way the feet were forced to be kept. I am glad I ran to the Storme to make myself comfortable which had 3 passengers. Its a comfortable 4 seater though.

[Mu009]

Originally Posted by Sheel

[ATTACH=Endys second row.jpg]This is how you sit as the 5th passenger in the Ford Endeavor 3.2 Titanium. Horrible, neither the seats were comfortable and you of course can see the way the feet were forced to be kept.

While I'm the first to admit that the Endeavour's middle row is not the most comfortable for 3, it's simply not true that one has to sit with both feet on one side of the transmission tunnel.

That said, it is an expedition vehicle for 4, not 5.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Mu009

That said, it is an expedition vehicle for 4, not 5.

Agree. Would love to know further about your escapades and expeditions with your Endeavour, hope you won't disappoint us.