[dhanushs]

Cool installation dot!. Its always like the 'geeky' and 'visual' way of knowing whats happening under the hood. And, yes, a pretty neat installation too.

Now... Does this explain the bad low end of the Civic? As at low rpms, its the FE cam, and not the regular cam that is activated. dot, can you please comment on the power/torque delivery of the car with vtec ON and OFF.

Originally Posted by dot

... The software has a few limitations like it only shows one gauge at a time. However it also picks up DTS codes and performs diagnostics...

I had a trial version of OBD scope in my N97. IIRC, it had an option of displaying 1- 9 (max) gauges. but, then I never went for the paid version, as I had torque on Android. Another lack in the OBD scope was that, it didn't have average FE guage, even though it had instantaneous. Also, how many gauges does OBD scope show, when connected?

Sorry, if there are lot of questions. You know, I have a bad, unmanageable curiosity.

[spadix]

Originally Posted by dot

Someone please confirm if ANHC's engine is L series Vtec.

Confirmed. I looked up the registration number of a random ANHC in the parking lot on the AP RTO website and the engine number starts with L15A7.

Originally Posted by sushrutha

He has OEM Fog lamps in his SCORP, so that should be the switch for the Fogs.

But that's not where the fog lamp switch is. It's on the headlight-cum-indicator stalk itself. Moreover the colour of this fog lamp switch on Scorponok looks very different to the colour of the headlamp level adjuster switch. Ergo the question.

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Now... Does this explain the bad low end of the Civic? As at low rpms, its the FE cam, and not the regular cam that is activated. dot, can you please comment on the power/torque delivery of the car with vtec ON and OFF.

I don't think it explains the bad low-end of the Civic. At lower RPMs, the F/E cam profile is in force *only* if you're cruising with a light foot. If you're zooming through the revs instead, it's the regular high output profile that should be in force.

Regards,
spadix

[dot]

Thanks, all of you for finding this installation interesting!

Originally Posted by vid6639

It'll be interesting to see how the i-vtec works on the ANHC. The power delivery is a little different in that one.

Originally Posted by vasoo

ANHC comes with L15A7 engine. And it is an iVtec.

Originally Posted by spadix

Confirmed. I looked up the registration number of a random ANHC in the parking lot on the AP RTO website and the engine number starts with L15A7.

That a good find, the engine number is the best way to confirm. So now we know that ANHC engine is a different breed of i-vtec which operates in a different way when compared to Civic's R18A. As Spadix said in a previous post, i-vtec has become a brand name for a basket of technologies.

Originally Posted by pranavt

The R18s iVtec is a little different. It's a pity we got the R18 with the Civic, Honda could have done some good by bringing in a K series engine with the Civic.

Yes, wish we had the option at least.

Originally Posted by arvi86

it acted as an eye-opener for me. Not sure about others, but I was thinking that the V-Tec works in exactly the opposite way to what you posted. Do let us know the difference in mileage in the V-Tec On and Off modes.

Originally Posted by sushrutha

Thanks for this excellent piece of Information on R18A I-VTECinformation.
I always thought in a Opposite way.
Now I know as why I was suddenly getting Low F.E.

This LED glow is perfectly working like the ECONOMY/POWER mode indicator

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Cool installation. Its always like the 'geeky' and 'visual' way of knowing whats happening under the hood. And, yes, a pretty neat installation too.

Originally Posted by KSM-Vtec

and now we need to check if it impacts the FE, if you can help us with the exact rpm level(when you finish testing) it will save all of us from installing the LED.

I was also under the impression that vtec works in the usual way on our Civics. What bothered me is the lack of vtec kick during redlining runs. Not that the redlining experience was inferior in any way!

The light now serves as a economy indicator. It is good to know what is going on at what point of time rather than using the car as a black box. The LED's red light now tells me when to accelerate.

However, when I get a OBD tool running, I will measure the FE with light and without light. But those have to be highway runs since long consistent driving is necessary for the purpose. In the city, the light comes on now and then whenever the car is on light throttle with RPM over 1500. I have not found top RPM point reliably so far.

KSM-Vtec, answering your post on this thread!

Originally Posted by sushrutha

When I spoke with RD Karthik, he told me one has to build a Circuit while connecting from the ECU pins for tapping the VTEC indicator.
You have got this done as a Child's play.

Thanks to you also and the first guy who did it and posted online.

Originally Posted by dhanushs

I had a trial version of OBD scope in my N97. IIRC, it had an option of displaying 1- 9 (max) gauges. but, then I never went for the paid version, as I had torque on Android. Another lack in the OBD scope was that, it didn't have average FE guage, even though it had instantaneous. Also, how many gauges does OBD scope show, when connected?

OBDscope has the option to show 9 gauges but we could see only one at a time, didnt find the option to see multiple gauges. We need to spend more time on it. Heck I need to buy an ELM device! Torque seems to be a nicer app, however I need buy a Andriod phone in that case.

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Now... Does this explain the bad low end of the Civic? As at low rpms, its the FE cam, and not the regular cam that is activated. dot, can you please comment on the power/torque delivery of the car with vtec ON and OFF.

Originally Posted by spadix

I don't think it explains the bad low-end of the Civic. At lower RPMs, the F/E cam profile is in force *only* if you're cruising with a light foot. If you're zooming through the revs instead, it's the regular high output profile that should be in force.

Spadix is spot on. I will try to get live OBD data with vtec on and off. This will take some time.

Originally Posted by sushrutha

He has OEM Fog lamps in his SCORP, so that should be the switch for the Fogs.

Originally Posted by spadix

But that's not where the fog lamp switch is. It's on the headlight-cum-indicator stalk itself. Moreover the colour of this fog lamp switch on Scorponok looks very different to the colour of the headlamp level adjuster switch. Ergo the question.

Scorponok is S-AT variant. I dont think they came with Fog lamps. The fog lamps must have been retrofitted. Lets discuss fog lamps in Scorpo thread, I have some more questions on it.

[laluks]

The graph for the Civic R18 discussion


The red area is when the led is lit in dots car

Note : Picture from web

[selfdrive]

Great job, dot! just a bit too much for me to digest on a Monday afternoon; perhaps anytime

Originally Posted by dot

That a good find, the engine number is the best way to confirm. So now we know that ANHC engine is a different breed of i-vtec which operates in a different way when compared to Civic's R18A. As Spadix said in a previous post, i-vtec has become a brand name for a basket of technologies.

Where do I fit in all the Jazz? I presume it will be closer to the ANHC?

Originally Posted by dot

The light now serves as a economy indicator. It is good to know what is going on at what point of time rather than using the car as a black box. The LED's red light now tells me when to accelerate.

Aah, I need an indicator to tell me the reverse - when to decelerate or stop accelerating!! Maybe the instant fuel consumption indicator does its bit; but I have learnt to ignore it/ change the settings. A flashing red light may help a bit I guess
Jokes apart, it is certainly useful. Can you also share the cost/ time you expended on this?

[Guna]

Originally Posted by laluks

The red area is when the led is lit in dots car

Note : Picture from web

This is useful. As i can see, the V-Tech cams come in to play even @high load, high speed (RPM) but then they wouldn't be operating in the economy range.

[thedreamcatcher]

This is very useful info. At one point towards the end I was a bit surprised when you said the vtec comes in at around 1500 RPM and goes off over 3000. And then that it operates on low load. I assumed you wrote the opposite, but towards the end it all became clear. As obviously, I always assumed the contrary view of it kicking in at much higher RPM

This is quite interesting actually and did a lot of reading on the net. Below is a very interesting article I came across that covers this topic in detail

Source: Asia Vtec Website

Technical Overview of Honda's new R18 i-VTEC Implementation

[VW2010]

What is the use of this modification in real world. Would like to understand better knowing the thought process of such modification.

It definitely feels great to do such modifications and i appreciate your efforts.

Engineering is/was and will be a marvel....

[bluevolt]

Hi dot,

that is very neat installation and very helpful guide for others to look for. I know there is some difference in City and Civic engines but would like to know if this installation is possible in ANHC also? In ANHC I feel i-VTEC engages around 4-5K RPM.

How much that work cost you?

[dot]

Originally Posted by laluks

The graph for the Civic R18 discussion

The red area is when the led is lit in dots car

Note : Picture from web

Thanks for posting the plot. I had seen the plot before in the temple of vtec article. All this time, this particular plot has been saying what the R18A does, and many of us didnt notice. But this is it. I am observing the same thing. Reposting the plot with an additional green circle where I have noticed the LED coming on, so far.

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Where do I fit in all the Jazz? I presume it will be closer to the ANHC?

Can you also share the cost/ time you expended on this?

Check the engine serial number, if it starts with L, then you have a L series vtec engine. How it works? Do have a look at the link I posted on L series engine exposition.

Time spent : 3 hours, could have been shorter if Bund Garden road was a bit more free during the TDs and rain didnt play spoil sport.
Moolah: Rs500/-

Originally Posted by VW2010

What is the use of this modification in real world. Would like to understand better knowing the thought process of such modification.

As I said before, the engine, ecu, AT does some interesting things while we drive. Normally it is a black box for us. Would like to know a bit more about the car, that is the thought process. Now the light tells me what the plot told us many moon back: vtec on means better economy in R18A. So during driving if we try to maximize the light on mode, we should get better FE. Mdsaab and me are planning certainly tests, but that will take time. Will update on this aspect when it happens.

Originally Posted by bluevolt

that is very neat installation and very helpful guide for others to look for. I know there is some difference in City and Civic engines but would like to know if this installation is possible in ANHC also? In ANHC I feel i-VTEC engages around 4-5K RPM.

How much that work cost you?

By the time I posted this post, you had already posted yours! Have look at the link which talks about ANHC's L series vtec engine. Yes you are right, it has a power vtec switch-over at those RPMs. Not like a Civic's economy vtec switch-over.
The cost is given above.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by dot

Spadix is spot on. I will try to get live OBD data with vtec on and off. This will take some time.

Originally Posted by spadix

I don't think it explains the bad low-end of the Civic. At lower RPMs, the F/E cam profile is in force *only* if you're cruising with a light foot. If you're zooming through the revs instead, it's the regular high output profile that should be in force.

I think I phrased it wrong. I was mentioning about the driveability factor of the civic. I was going through the article pranav posted. Somehow, I feel that in most of the city driveabiltiy the low output cam comes into play (as the operating range is till 3.5k).

However, dot, can you let me know how the car's driveablity is, when the light is ON?.

===============================================


Here's a graphic video on how the R18A Engine works. This also includes a detailed explanation of how the i-vtec works.

Honda Worldwide | New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine

[VW2010]

So during driving if we try to maximize the light on mode, we should get better FE

Great. Would it be better to add a simple beeper to make it easier on the driver to avoid looking at the lights. Just a thought. But a great way to enable sensible driving.

[pranavt]

Originally Posted by VW2010

Great. Would it be better to add a simple beeper to make it easier on the driver to avoid looking at the lights. Just a thought. But a great way to enable sensible driving.

Why do you want something bothering you continuously when you're driving?

For people who want to try another DIY, put a few red LEDs behind the rev counter in the Civic. Have it come on when it sees 0v across the solenoid, similar to what's there on the Lexus LFA where the cluster turns red when you redline the engine.

[dot]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

I think I phrased it wrong. I was mentioning about the driveability factor of the civic. I was going through the article pranav posted. Somehow, I feel that in most of the city driveabiltiy the low output cam comes into play (as the operating range is till 3.5k).

However, dot, can you let me know how the car's driveablity is, when the light is ON?.

Thanks for the link.

The light comes on often during city driving, sometimes for a couple of seconds, sometimes longer, but always at RPMs higher than 1500. So you need to press the accelerator very lightly to see the light, irrespective of which gear is engaged. Vtec is engaged in 3rd or 4th or 5th gear. I have driven the car with the vtec light on at 36-38 kmph(M3), 44-46kmph(M4), 62-65kmph(M5) at a stretch. As soon as you release the throttle and let the car coast, light goes off as RPM goes to less than 1000. I have not gone to too high RPMs after the installation, so will comment on the higher end of the range later.

Therefore, if someone wants to drive with the light on for maximum amount of time, you would need a light foot, thats it. Now, very importantly, as mdsaab pointed out, my car has an AT. AT driveability is never an issue and cannot be compared to an MT. However if I were to take a guess, the same light foot rule should apply. Will the vtec disengage when clutch is pressed? I am not sure. Any guesses?

[spadix]

Originally Posted by laluks

The graph for the Civic R18 discussion

Super! So, in an M/T, one can comfortably "light-touch cruise" at 140 kmph (3500 rpm in 5th) and still get fantastic FE. On an AT, 3500 in 5th corresponds to 175!

/me heads out searching for roads to pull this off

Really, if we only had the roads that this car and engine deserve!

Originally Posted by dhanushs

I think I phrased it wrong. I was mentioning about the driveability factor of the civic.

OK, I get your point now.

The car definitely doesn't pull from the ~1500 rpm mark in gears 3 and above. It's sort of like your typical modern-day turbo-diesel before the turbo spools up. You have to either downshift or gun the throttle and the moment you do either you're back into high-output mode.

The way I see it, the R18A iVTEC is meant for highway cruising and not for maximizing returns inside the city. The latter would be an exercise in frustration in most of our cities. Horses for courses. One could of course argue that it should be the other way around for Indian conditions and that this unit seems to be perfect for cruising along on the Interstate.

All the more reason to look at dot's report on his next experiment: OBD usage including power/torque figures w/ and w/o R18A iVTEC engaged.

Regards,
spadix