[drifter]

Heres food for thought, SUVs are seen to have more damage than sedans in accidents. Its been proved in crash tests that sedans are better at protecting occupants than most SUVs.
And these SUVs are definately heavier than their sedan counterparts.

So heavy does not necessarily mean safe. Its the engineering that matters.

Drifter

[tsk1979]

Only in some cases. Thats why I put in maybe
For example look at two similar cars, like lets say Wagon R and Indica. Indica is safer partly due to more metal.
So if you design two cars with similar engineering the heavier one will be safer.

But if engineering is different, things change. For example Aveo and Swift. Aveo is so heavy but is very very unsafe, much more than swift

[kvish]

Heavy build is just one of the qualities that go on to make a safe car, but it has to be complemented by good handling and driving dynamics of the car. For eg, consider the old scorpio (I dont know about the new one). Whats the point in having a heavy car that invites trouble at higher speeds? You'd rather have a lighter car that you can control...

[stevie]

more heavy means more safe is purel dependant on the vehicle and its usage.
a long distance traveller who clocks more miles on a long journey and isnot really bothered about the speeds he achieves, is more worried about the road grip or how road hugging his car is.maybe aspects related to clearance, the weight he has put into the boot of the car, no. of passengers travelling etc etc etc...........where as many of us here may most of the times want to achieve high speeds and this is done so by lots of performance mods as well as drastic reduction of the weight of the car itself.........this may surely determine an increase in speed...........most speed/drag meets we see cars cutting down on many part, doors, adding carbon fibre or fibre parts in order to maintain the look but actually lessen weight.

therefore its based on application as well.
thus i would actually agree as well as disagree depending on when and how i sure the car!!!!!
trying my best to make sense!!!!!!........stevie

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

For example look at two similar cars, like lets say Wagon R and Indica. Indica is safer partly due to more metal.

Tsk1979, is there any official data available to back this claim that Indica is safer than WagonR ? Or is it just a claim based on the Indica being heavier and visually looking more sturdier ?

[ivor]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Tsk1979, is there any official data available to back this claim that Indica is safer than WagonR ? Or is it just a claim based on the Indica being heavier and visually looking more sturdier ?

Ah! Just what I was thinking! Incidentally, here's a review of the City Rover (the export version of the Indica and built much better than the desi Indica):
http://www.fleetnewsnet.co.uk/news/v...D=33440&menu=1

Some excerpts:
Add that to the fact that a Euro NCAP crash test is unlikely for this car because it was not built originally by Tata to withstand one (although it does conform to EU safety standards)...........a car which is so outclassed in safety equipment by its competitors.

I'm not saying the Indica isn't a safe car, only that in the absence of independent ratings, it's tough to say. As someone pointed out previously, the Aveo is heavier than the Swift and GM build quality is definitely far better than Maruti, but the Aveo still performs quite badly in crash tests and has a bad EuroNCAP rating as compared to the Swift.

Could be the same for Indica and Wagon R too! I only wish there was some way we could know for sure!

[khanak]

it all depends on the materials used. nowdays material technology has become so advanced that we can create lightweight materials like carbon fibre which are a lot stronger than heavier materials like steel. also the way the material is used. for example the body panels of formula one cars consist of a honeycomb structure made of carbon fibre which is sandwiched between two layers of carbon fibre. this drastically increases thee strength. you can try this yourself by making a honeycomb structure out of paper. you will see that it is able to hold a lot more weight than paper which is simply folded. so it basically boils down to design. and no way does heavier mean safer. we might feel safer and more stable though actually it will just make the car less nimble. formula one cars........the perfect example

[khanak]

Originally Posted by ivor

Ah! Just what I was thinking! Incidentally, here's a review of the City Rover (the export version of the Indica and built much better than the desi Indica):
http://www.fleetnewsnet.co.uk/news/v...D=33440&menu=1

Some excerpts:
Add that to the fact that a Euro NCAP crash test is unlikely for this car because it was not built originally by Tata to withstand one (although it does conform to EU safety standards)...........a car which is so outclassed in safety equipment by its competitors.

I'm not saying the Indica isn't a safe car, only that in the absence of independent ratings, it's tough to say. As someone pointed out previously, the Aveo is heavier than the Swift and GM build quality is definitely far better than Maruti, but the Aveo still performs quite badly in crash tests and has a bad EuroNCAP rating as compared to the Swift.

Could be the same for Indica and Wagon R too! I only wish there was some way we could know for sure!

doesnt india have its own safety programme. i mean our safety requirments are quite different from other countries. also i guess we cant really rely on foreign ratings cos the cars are built differently here using different components

[drifter]

Add that to the fact that a Euro NCAP crash test is unlikely for this car because it was not built originally by Tata to withstand one (although it does conform to EU safety standards)...........a car which is so outclassed in safety equipment by its competitors.

As far as the Euro NCAP is concerned, the cars being sold there mostly come with curtain airbags in addition to the standard airbags...as far as i know tata only give driver and passenger airbags. Because the curtain airbags are absent that might account for the reason why the city rover fares badly in comparision to others. Still manages to pass the tests.

Drifter

[2fast4u]

In this poll I would go for heavy, preference CAR not SUV, built American and again prefer the 80's 90's stuff, built like a Tank. These are the best saviours in an accident.
Seen Caprice Classic crash into a 100 ft Light Pole, sideways car becoming ")" but still the occupants survived.
Audi A8 slams into late80's Ford Crown Victoria - Audi front finished and write-off, Ford only the side turn signal damaged the twin headlamps on left side still intact.
Cadi Fleetwood turns turtle 6 to 7 time at +120kmph (both front tyres burst - reason unknown) but the driver still survived.
If this was the case with a Japanese car which is lightweight then the driver would not have surivived.
Jap cars have ABS, Traction control many more safety stuff etc etc but when it comes to a crash they crumple too much too soon.
btw i am driving a Jap car just cause its fitted witha trouble free motor, nothing more than that. I'd say its stronger than the present generation jap cars cause mines a decade+ old.
Its built like the Amby, strong and solid but still not tanklike.

Same applies for Indian vehicles but here the builders build in a haphazard way with strips and small bits of metals being riveted here and there, thereby reducing the actual strength of the vehicle, if it was all a neatly fabricated metal the results will be much different. This crappy build increases more of metal bits / strips doing the job of missiles into the cabin in an accident and so in india vehicle being built heavy does not in a way mean strong.
My view.

[khanak]

Originally Posted by 2fast4u

In this poll I would go for heavy, preference CAR not SUV, built American and again prefer the 80's 90's stuff, built like a Tank. These are the best saviours in an accident.
Seen Caprice Classic crash into a Light Pole, sideways car becoming ")" but still the occupants survived.
Audi A8 slams into late80's Ford Crown Victoria - Audi front finished and write-off, Ford only the side turn signal damaged the twin headlamps on left side still intact.
Cadi Fleetwood turns turtle 6 to 7 time at +120kmph but the driver still survived.
If this was the case with a Japanese car which is lightweight then the driver would not have surivived.
Jap cars have ABS, Traction control many more safety stuff etc etc but when it comes to a crash they crumple too much too soon.
btw i am driving a Jap car just cause its fitted witha trouble free motor, nothing more than that.

you cant judge how safe a car is by looking at crashes cos u dont know wht happend in the crash. also i feel modern cars should be safer than older cars cos designers are able to learn from their mistakes and move forward. however cars are made a lot lighter nowdays to make them more efficient

[GTO]

Originally Posted by RX135

Not always necessary, but if both cars are engineered similarly, then more metal should definitely add to the safety.

Exactly my thoughts. Well put.

GTO

[dodge3p]

The answer is "NO".Safety in road accidents means how well the car could redirect the energry generated away from its passengers.

Heavier cars could prevent thier body from crumpling but transfers the generated force to the passengers with less or no transmission loss.
Also laws of physics states the same. Force = mass * accleration OR F = ma; In case of an accident the "a" becomes the retardation, and m is mass of the vehicle.We can see that the mass is directly proportional to the Force and in the event of an accident the force generated will go up as mass increases. Hope that I am not confusing anyone.
I believe the point in road accident safety is how well could the involved vehicle could absorb the force generated and redirect it away from its passengers. Ever wondered why the yolk is intact even when the egg shell crumples on falling to a hard surface?

[drifter]

Also laws of physics states the same. Force = mass * accleration OR F = ma; In case of an accident the "a" becomes the retardation, and m is mass of the vehicle.We can see that the mass is directly proportional to the Force and in the event of an accident the force generated will go up as mass increases. Hope that I am not confusing anyone.
I believe the point in road accident safety is how well could the involved vehicle could absorb the force generated and redirect it away from its passengers. Ever wondered why the yolk is intact even when the egg shell crumples on falling to a hard surface?

Yeah that holds true....but on the whole heavier vehicles would be preffered. Companies have to make them safer. This is where the challenge lies.

Drifter

[tsk1979]

Tata does its inhouse crash testing, and based on the accidents which I have seen and been in, the Indica is indeed safer than WagonR or santro
1. Its less likely to topple than both of these
2. Its got better side impact protection(you can open the door panels and see the thickness of side impact beams)
3. Its got an excellent rigidity in passenger shell

though it does not stand a chance with the big boys, but the reason is no ABS and no Airbags, rather than rigidity of the shell.

It also meets European safety standards(City rover is an indica after all) as mentioned in the article