[Car&me]

Virtualdanger, any updates on the gearbox issue?

I am hearing a similar problem with my brother's 2006 Accord V6, which also has done 75000 kms. Same issue, drives upto 40/50 km/hr and starts slowing down, eventually stopping. Revs up as if its in neutral but no response.

Honda dealer in Coimbatore gave a similar response and he has put the repairs in cold storage and driving his altis meanwhile.

Would be interested in knowing what happened to your car.

[virtualdanger]

Update as on Feb 14, 2014:

After many delays, the gearbox has been rebuilt. Other issues that were discovered included engine-bed mounts that needed replacing. After all the work was completed, the car was taken for a test run and there was some slipping. The mechanics opinion now is that the Torque Converter needs to be replaced.

The absurdly expensive estimate I have received for it is 52,000 INR. On ebay I can find the suitable torque converter part for a 160 USD.

A couple of questions:
- Does it make sense that the Torque Converter needs to be replaced?
- Is the pricing absurdly high, or is there something I am missing?

I pushed for cheaper options, and I've been told a used Torque Converter, with no warranty is available for 40,000 INR. Which is you ask me is an even worse option.

Originally Posted by Car&me

Virtualdanger, any updates on the gearbox issue?

I am hearing a similar problem with my brother's 2006 Accord V6, which also has done 75000 kms. Same issue, drives upto 40/50 km/hr and starts slowing down, eventually stopping. Revs up as if its in neutral but no response.

Honda dealer in Coimbatore gave a similar response and he has put the repairs in cold storage and driving his altis meanwhile.

Would be interested in knowing what happened to your car.

Car&me - This looks to be a annoying situation to be stuck in. One option is to work with Honda, and their gastronomical pricing, or go with 3rd party mechanic sheds, which are sufficiently knowledgeable to do rebuilds. But getting into it I gave it a couple of months max, on account of my financial limitations. Did not expect it to take well over 6 months with delays from the other side as well. And worst part, not done yet, with more money required.

[virtualdanger]

I did not have the pictures ready when I made the previous post. Below are the pictures of the gearbox rebuild kit, and the gearbox open when it was being worked on.

[d_himan]

Originally Posted by virtualdanger

I did not have the pictures ready when I made the previous post. Below are the pictures of the gearbox rebuild kit, and the gearbox open when it was being worked on.

Why is taking 6 months!? The kit is usually ordered from Dubai and takes a week to arrive. These kits are plentiful since the model is pretty popular. Putting back the gearbox takes 4/5 days maximum - these are not complicated CVTs which most mechanics don't touch. Even if they do it twice (even one accumulator not properly put back can result in the gearbox not working), the whole exercise should be over in 15-20 days! At least, that has been my experience in Bombay.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by virtualdanger

ue converter part for a 160 USD.

A couple of questions:
- Does it make sense that the Torque Converter needs to be replaced?
- Is the pricing absurdly high, or is there something I am missing?

There are specific checks to determine if the TC is functioning as it should. Do some research online

[virtualdanger]

Originally Posted by d_himan

Why is taking 6 months!? The kit is usually ordered from Dubai and takes a week to arrive. These kits are plentiful since the model is pretty popular. Putting back the gearbox takes 4/5 days maximum - these are not complicated CVTs which most mechanics don't touch. Even if they do it twice (even one accumulator not properly put back can result in the gearbox not working), the whole exercise should be over in 15-20 days! At least, that has been my experience in Bombay.

d_himan - Thanks for that. The first 2 months were my fault. As I could not get the money required ready in one shot. The next 4 have been delays sourcing the exact matching kit is what I'm told.

Originally Posted by Mpower

There are specific checks to determine if the TC is functioning as it should. Do some research online

Mpower - Thank you. Will look this up. The mechanic folks though have told me its the torque converter. But thanks for the tip; will read up. Helps to be be well read vs. go in blind.

[virtualdanger]

Update as on May 13, 2014:

I've been looking at various ways of sourcing the Torque Converter (TC). I've found a matching refurbished TC in the US, and the vendor is will to send optional parts and work with me if there is a mismatch, but I'm having trouble getting it down, as none of my friends are travelling. Also, the packed weight of ~30 kgs is not easy for everyone.

Pricing wise its 160 USD, but if I tried to go the shipping and duty route it becomes impractical. I will need to find someone to bring it ideally.

Red Line Auto has got a part vendor who has offered a used one for 35,000 INR. That vendor too will replace the part, or give money back if its not a matching part. But there is no real warranty on the TC.

Finally i'm also checking with another part vendor in Chennai, who is coordinating with contacts in Chennai and Delhi for the part.

All - Please let me know of your thoughts/suggestions, and also if you know reliable contacts I can source the TC from. Thanks in advance.

[biju1971]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@Axe77; Check on Amazon.com if it is available and they deliver to India.

Dear sir,
I had posted a query regarding the clutch and suspension repairs for my Honda accord 2002.I could not find any other thread regarding an accord nor did i get answers for my queries.I have been doing the repairs from the neighborhood mechanic for suspension jobs,he gets the parts from Mumbai. I am somehow not satisfied with the job and feel the rubber that goes into the bushes are suspect.The mechanic also says that the clutch needs an overhaul(release bearing) and i also can feel some noises while depressing the clutch.Should i go the ASC? Would it be exorbitant? Please give some idea based on the Civic for the complete suspension job and clutch job.

[biju1971]

I have got the wheel bearings for my honda accord opened.There was grease in it and all the balls were in place although there was discolouration.There was some amount of grooving in the shaft.I have decided to replace the bearing.The bearing is manufactured by NTN and the number mentioned is HU8181 22.How to decipher the number or get an skf equivalent.Would this be available with an skf/ntn authorized dealer.

[honeybee]

I have a pre owned Accord 2003 2.3 MT, and frkm past few days my speedo cable has become erratic. It doesn't move at all, and then the Check engine light comes up. At times the speedo needle behaves normally and the light does not come up.

On digging up the web, I found this problem is caused by the vehicle speed sensor. Does anyone have any idea where is it, can it be fixed by WD40 or does it need replacement?

[bowser]

Check engine light comes on when the cable is not detected. It's probably loose and rattling around that is causing contact issues. Just getting it adjusted properly may fix it.

[ritedhawan]

I would like to state before hand that the problem , I have henceforth elaborated upon relates to a car that has been sold in the middle of this month.

A short summary about the car, It was a 2nd hand 2007 Honda Accord AT(Automatic Transmission), bought from a dealer in karol bagh,New Delhi at the beginning of 2008, had less than 14000 KM on it.It was extensively driven on Highways compared to within the city, by me and seldom used by my Father and Brother. Before parting with it had 127000 KM on it.It had gone through a Suspension O/H,had gone through 2 sets of wheels, was twice repainted ,was repaired after a frontal damage that not only smashed the front bumper, radiator , radiator fan ..etc but once repaired was left with one airbag less(Passenger Side!) a 2nd suspension O/H was due up, periodic service up till 90000 KM was performed by ASC(Authorized Service Center) and henceforth from our preferred mechanic.The Engine was absolutely fine and except a whole lot of issues of which I was well aware of, and could live with it, I had absolutely no complaints about the Honda Accord that we
owned and which I drove extensively and loved every moment of it.

The problem that enabled us to dispose of the car rather than get through the replacement of the AT transmission that was just not worth it:-

The beginning of the year, the first week of January 2016. One early morning, started for the usual Delhi - Panipat-Delhi route via NH1. As I expected, the visibility came down to a few meters as I approached the Delhi-Haryana border, something that was expected and anyways I had driven the car so many times in foggy conditions that this was not something that I was not aware off.Anyways, took a 10 minute break at Murthal , Haryana and resumed the Journey, no problems whatsoever.Until, I reach the Panipat toll, and yet nothing unusual , past the toll and accelerating , speed up to 60 KMPH and the car is doing fine , its no longer foggy therefore a gradual push to the throttle to speed up to 90 KMPH, However, its not accelerating!! its actually de-accelerating!!?. Now, Let me explain what kind of de-accelerating behavior my car was exhibiting : Its like you bring the car up to speed , lets say 80 KMPH and you pull the gear selector to "N" Neutral . The car would gradually de-accelerate at it own rate unless one pushes the brake and then the vehicle would come to an abrupt stop and yet I never pushed brake nor I pulled the gear selector to "N". The Gear selector is in "D" drive mode, even the HUD confirms the same.Ironically, whether I gradually press the throttle or step on it hard, the only thing one observes on the HUD is that the revs are going up while no acceleration!! Its like you are revving the engine in a moving car in Neutral "N", even though I look down and see that the gear selector is in "D" drive mode and the HUD confirms the same. Its clear as daylight to me that there is definitely something to do with the Automatic Transmission (AT) of the car, as one look at the HUD confirms that everything is normal, the fuel gauge, the temp. gauge , there is no engine check light On , nothing unusual and yet the car is not accelerating. Therefore , The first thing that comes to my mind is to the pull over and check for the transmission fluid. I shut the engine down and wait for 5 minutes and pop the hood to check for the AT fluid, well, to my utter amazement its fine!!. I came back , turn over the engine, everything light up the way its supposed to be on HUD , nothing out of ordinary.Started the car, Pull the gear selector from "P" Parking to "D" drive and no movement of the car, I try various ways of modulating throttle pressure like gradually pressing throttle or foot down on it resulting in revs going up and down, whilst the car standing still as if its in Neutral "N" even though its in "D" drive. A peculiar change happens on HUD, the "D" light is no longer constant green , its flashing green. Compounding my fears that there is something wrong with the AT of the car. Now, I could come up with 2 options , either one could try to figure out a way by "Hit and trial' method to somehow bring motion to the car so as to bring it back to New Delhi for diagnosis, or if that doesn't work then left with no other option but to reach out to the 'flat-bed' service that would pick up the vehicle and bring it back to New Delhi.One sincerely had no intention of calling up Honda Service Hotline, or getting people from Honda Authorized center in Panipat or Karnal to check up on the car.

One started with the first option, I know the car is not moving in "D" drive mode, therefore , I pulled the gear selector to "D3" and tried various ways of modulating throttle pressure like gradually pressing throttle or foot down , unfortunately, no movement, and now "D3" starts flashing green instead of constant green. I thought might as well try "2" , and tried various ways of modulating throttle pressure like gradually pressing throttle or foot down , well there was not need to press down, miraculously, something clicks and the car moves from standstill, it accelerates 10 KMPH, 20..30...40...50...60 KMPH rev-counter somewhere above 3500 and one felt optimistic that something worked and one has a way of bringing the car back to New Delhi.I took a U-turn heading back to New Delhi, one doesn't want to push any more on throttle and staying at 60 KMPH. Its been 4 minutes, Until, something happens and again I cannot accelerate, its as if back to square one, 60 KMPH ... going down 50, 40, 30 ..etc and every throttle push is as if its in vain because it feels like its in neutral even though the gear selector is in "2".Again, I pulled over , brought it to "P"park and shut down the engine, wait for 10 minutes , pop the hood and check AT fluid and its fine!!.

Started the car again and pulled the gear selector to "2" and started playing with throttle , a 'click' sound as something connected and car moves again bringing it to 60 KMPH speed and inevitably after 4 minutes it back to that same behavior : the car coasting on Neutral even though gear selector is in "2". Again , I pulled over , put the gear selector in "P" and shut down engine,would wait for 1 minute and restart.I would follow the same routine more than 100 times and would bring the car back to New Delhi while the next day My Brother would hand it over to the preferred mechanic.


Now my questions -- and one would really appreciate the opinions of those who have worked with conventional AT-- are:-

(1) The moment, I realized that there is something wrong with the AT of the car.Should I have, instead of following the first option of bringing the car back to Delhi by following that routine innumerable times, which may have exacerbated the problem or should have gone with the second option: that is pull over, call the flat bed service , get it back to Delhi and may be able to salvage something out the situation or call the Honda Assistance right there, perhaps they may have been able to fix the issue or perhaps arrange the transportation of the car to the nearest ASC and diagnose?

(2) What could have happened inside the AT box, that enabled me to follow a routine innumerable times to get the car back to New Delhi.Was it an AT failure or some electrical fault, Grade Logic issue etc?


Our preferred mechanic stated that he had never worked on Honda Accord AT let alone repaired it, proposed swapping it with a new or a refurbished one.
The ASC one the other hand stated that the can try to fix it, However, would not guarantee the fix , recommended replacement and they did the OBD , came with a whole list of parts that need replacement and quoted a 6 digit figure to bring the car back to life for at least the next 50000 KM.......Just not worth it!

[Rahul Bhalgat]

There are a number of clutches and brakes inside such AT. These clutches and brakes decide the power flow-path within the transmission and the ratios. The clutches and brakes are operated by hydraulic pistons housed inside the AT. The power for this hydraulics comes from a pump.

Pump keeps the oil pressurized all the time. To engage the required gear, the pressurized oil is sent to some of the clutches / brakes through solenoid valves. These solenoid valves are opened or closed electronically based on the load, engine rpm and the selected mode.

Now there could be an electrical issue or a hydraulic issue.

Electrical issue:
If the solenoid coil of the valves turns faulty, the solenoid could loose its pull and the valve will be switched off. The transmission goes to N practically. The faulty solenoid is receiving the electricity (though it is not generating the pull), so the controller still thinks it is D mode. When the solenoid works randomly (like a loose contact), you can drive the car.

Hydraulic issue:
If the clutches and brakes inside the AT do not get adequate oil pressure, they will not operate and you could notice the symptom you have reported. This can happen because of:

1. Inadequate quantity of oil; you had checked this.
2. The clogged suction filter for the pump. This will starve the pump and will not allow the pump to generate adequate oil pressure.
3. There is a pressure relief valve on the output side of the pump. It is supposed to relieve the excess pressure (by sending some pressurized oil to drain). This valve shall take action only when the pressure exceeds a safe and normal value. As soon as the excess pressure is relieved (in a fraction of a second), the valve stops relieving the pressure. If this valve is acting-up, it could relieve the pressure unnecessarily. This situation is like your pump is pumping the oil and the oil is getting drained immediately after the pump outlet.

Whenever the clogged suction filter randomly allowed the oil flow or whenever the misbehaving pressure relief valve behaved properly, you could drive the car.

When you could drive the car, the AT shifted properly. This indicates that there is no problem with the gears and all other AT mechanism.

So, if the car would have been still with you, I would have suggested draining the oil, changing the insider filters / strainers and checking / replacing the pressure relief valve, cheking and replacing he solenoid coils. These shall not have been too costly.

[tj123]

Fixing an AT is a specialized job and not sure if it can be repaired in Delhi region, usually a dealers will replace it.
Best and cheapest solution is to find a used transmission on ebay something similar to this Link

[ritedhawan]

Thanks for your response, Rahul Bhalgat, tj123

Rahul, you have answered the second question adequately, However, didn't answer the first.

What I wanted to know, was the moment in Panipat I realized that there is was AT problem, Should I have:-

(1) Called the Flat - Bed service to pick up the vehicle and deliver it to an ASC or my preferred mechanic in New Delhi, so that they could fix the problem.

(2) Called Honda Assistance, who would eventually pick up the vehicle to their local service center to fix the problem.--Something I didn't wanted to do , as I wouldn't like anyone else to touch the vehicle except those who had already worked on it!.

What I did, as states above in the beginning of the post , was followed a routine innumerable times to bring it back to New Delhi to get it checked from my preferred mechanic or the ASC that I trusted, During the course of bringing it back to New Delhi,

" Did I brought irreparable damage to the AT such that the problem got out of hand and reached a point of no return?"
Or ,
" Whether, I followed the above 2 options or brought the car back to New Delhi, irreparable damage was anyway done at that point in Panipat. Therefore, whether I followed any of the above options, The damage was done, and the AT had reached a point of no return. ?"

That's what I wanted to know, via the Ist question , I put across at the beginning of the post.