[Shivraj88]

Also was the problem there from day 1 or did it gradually get worse as the kilometers rolled by?

[SamirD]

Originally Posted by rockporiom

No, they didn't do anything they just drove it a few yards and told me everything was fine and if it happens again they will give me a replacement car. I have stopped driving the car as I am taking delivery of my silver knight today.

The brakes have yet to be replaced. Parts to arrive in jan since MSIL is closed for maintainence.

That's absolutely ridiculous. You can't tell anything about the braking of a car in a few yards. Did they even get up to 30km/hr?

I think it is time to take up their offer on the replacement car. I'm assuming you meant they would give you a new Kizashi. I bet they will not do this, those lying scum bags.

Originally Posted by Shivraj88

I suggest you circumvent the dealers/ service stations and approach Maruti directly to resolve every problem once and for all so that you are not endangering your life while on the road.

Shivraj

I second this.

Originally Posted by rosh_aveo1.4

Dude..did you check this at any other independent garage? I mean some reputed ones. You might have warranty issues yes but this is just bloody risky. And your family just went through a bad accident lately right?

I second this as well.

Originally Posted by scofield

Rockporiom,

I had such an issue while braking in my car, it was sorted once we changed the brake pads and the discs.

Good to hear it is a quick and simple fix. But it seems like this very bad dealership would rather see their customer die than give him some brake parts for free.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by Shivraj88

Also was the problem there from day 1 or did it gradually get worse as the kilometers rolled by?

No, the problem started all of a sudden after the second service.

Originally Posted by Shivraj88

Hi Rockporiom

Man That sounds scary!! What finally happened about the Kizashi Recall you had earlier mentioned.

I bought a White CVT Kizashi a couple of weeks ago (possibly one of the last available) and although there is a slight grinding sound from the brakes (only at very slow start stop traffic) which appear to just need a good cleaning - it is no where close to the problems you have described.

I fear your extreme situation seems to be a one off case due to improper storage of the car which led to a number of parts - carpets, engine cover etc etc. having to be changed.

I suggest you circumvent the dealers/ service stations and approach Maruti directly to resolve every problem once and for all so that you are not endangering your life while on the road.

Shivraj

Hey man, a few of my friends on and off team bhp have these issues so its not a one off case. But mine is in the most extreme stage. I am sad to say that I have decided to stop driving the car completely until it is safe to drive it again. The car is too dangerous and I am in no mood to experience airbags and crumple zones. Just waiting for the discs to arrive to the service center.

The recall is for a certain number of Kizashi's within a specific VIN range. Suggest you to check if your car comes within it.

By the way congratulations on the kizashi.

Originally Posted by scofield

Rockporiom,

I had such an issue while braking in my car, it was sorted once we changed the brake pads and the discs.

The service center has agreed to change the discs but I have to pay for pads. I don't think there is any jeed to complaun to maruti as the service center has agreed that there is a problem amd has ordered the part. The problem is the time the parts take to arrive.




Secondly, one of my kizashi friends reported that if any one is having insensitive steering when the car is on bad roads the solution is to change the stabiliser bar and bushes which will also tighten the handling. The dealer has done this for 5 kizashi's. So if you have insensitive steering you know where to look.

[k_nitin_r]

Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt

It is surprising that Maruti is handling a Kizashi customer in this manner. They should have changed the rotors and pads straightaway as *that is the real remedy in such cases. It looks like your Kizashi is a part of the guinea pigs that Maruti is using to sort out this problem.

This reminds me of the way systems integrators solve problems under their annual maintenance contracts. The software that they acquire licenses for from other vendors are supported in this manner - the source code is unavailable so the support agents try to find a remedy by trying solutions or waiting the long wait till the vendor provides them with a solution; Maruti would rather not keep its customers waiting so it has to resort to the former. In-house developed software, however, gets a better support. The CBU imported vehicles are analogous to the software supplied by vendors and the locally built vehicles are analogous to the in-house developed software.

[SamirD]

Originally Posted by k_nitin_r

This reminds me of the way systems integrators solve problems under their annual maintenance contracts. The software that they acquire licenses for from other vendors are supported in this manner - the source code is unavailable so the support agents try to find a remedy by trying solutions or waiting the long wait till the vendor provides them with a solution; Maruti would rather not keep its customers waiting so it has to resort to the former. In-house developed software, however, gets a better support. The CBU imported vehicles are analogous to the software supplied by vendors and the locally built vehicles are analogous to the in-house developed software.

But while custom designed software is very unique in the code and the access to the code, standard brake calipers on a production car aren't that specialized. A rotor is a rotor, a caliper is a caliper, a pad is a pad, a brake line is a brake line. There are different parts, and maybe some slight variances in details that require precision, but it's not like they're looking at something completely foreign to them.

I'm really glad the car is parked at the moment. I hope the replacement parts fix the issue quickly and properly. If not, Maruti surely needs to be brought in to help fix this issue.

[scofield]

Originally Posted by rockporiom

The service center has agreed to change the discs but I have to pay for pads.

But do change the disc first and check.The brake pads are like very hard rubber which constantly rubs to the disc and wears with period, also it takes the shape of the disc contact surface. The disc is thick metal and once the contact surface is deformed (undulation) it will affect overall braking mechanism.

I had a very similar issue, first I thought need to get the wheel alignment and balancing done however this should be checked only when you feel vibration while accelerating or after certain speeds.

Got the discs replaced and it was gone, also what I have experienced is that the factory fitted discs worn out quite quickly as both disc and brake pads are new and a lot of friction is created initially.Also in new cars you would see a lot of black residual kind of substance of brake pads on the front wheels due to the friction however as time passes by it reduces .This friction sometimes leads to deforming of the disc surface, which can cause wobbling.

Once you get the new discs but as the pads are old the friction is much less, I haven't had an issue after that in my car and this happened at around 10K KM. Now I am on third set of brake pads at 66K but haven't changed the discs since then.

[SamirD]

Originally Posted by scofield

Also in new cars you would see a lot of black residual kind of substance of brake pads on the front wheels due to the friction however as time passes by it reduces .This friction sometimes leads to deforming of the disc surface, which can cause wobbling.

Actually the black residue is known as 'brake dust' which consists of the brake pad and rotor components that are worn off as the brakes are applied. The amount of brake dust generated is mainly dependent on the pads, as 'softer' pads generate more dust as they disintegrate more completely when contacting with the brake rotor (disc). More aggressive or 'harder' pads will generate less dust, but typically will also wear the rotor more quickly. However, these pads will also provide more braking power in more severe conditions such as racing, or braking from 200km/hr to zero.

Two of the main causes of brake rotor (disc) warping (wobbling) is improper 'bedding in' of the pads, and uneven heat stress. Properly bedding-in new pads to the rotor is critical for optimum braking power as well as longevity of the system. The pad material must be transfered onto the rotor in a gentle fashion before any hard braking takes place. Typical Indian city driving for about 500km without any hard stops should do this just fine. Highway braking with a set of new pads and rotors can almost instantly warp a set of rotors (even really good ones), so avoid any abrupt stops with a new car or after a fresh brake job.

And since pads and rotors become a matched set after the bedding-in process, it is important not to change the pad type when replacing just pads. Ideally, replace both pads and rotors at the same time, keeping them a matched set.

Heat stressing a rotor can happen after a hard stop and then holding the brakes. The hot pad is now sitting on a singular spot on the rotor while the rest of the rotor cools. It is important to continue to move slowly after a hard stop to keep the hot pad from 'resting' on one spot on the rotor. I've made rotors last 100k miles using this technique. I am almost always just replacing pads.

Wobbling and rotor warpage can also be caused by the wheel not being replaced in precisely the same orientation as it was on the car before since it is used to hold the brake rotor to the hub of the car. Furthermore, the lug nuts must be torqued to the proper spec (103.5 ft/lbs in a star pattern for the Kizashi) as specified in the service manual. Placing the wheel back on the car in a different orientation as previously installed or improper lug nut torque can also cause warpage.

And this explnation made me just think of another possible cause to the problem--are the lug nuts on fully and tight? This type of extreme shaking can happen if they are not. There is a jack in the trunk of the car with instructions on how to use it. Use it to lift the car so that the wheel is just off the ground. Place your hands on the top and bottom of the wheel and see if you can move it--if so the lug nuts or wheel studs are a possible cause and the wheel isn't on properly. The car is undrivable in this condition and should be repaired where it is in this case.

Originally Posted by scofield

Once you get the new discs but as the pads are old the friction is much less, I haven't had an issue after that in my car and this happened at around 10K KM. Now I am on third set of brake pads at 66K but haven't changed the discs since then.

The reason you're feeling less friction is because the pads are no longer 'bedded-in' to the rotors. You have to wait for them to transfer enough material to the rotor before having full braking power. You'll also notice less dust until this happens. Drive carefully during this time period as you have reduced braking capability compared to your older worn-out pads.

[srinikulkarni]

I have had my Kizashi for just over a year now (and, thanks to all those members whose views and analysis helped me decide).

Mine is a July 2011 build. At the time of PDI in December 2012, in Pune, it was still nicely wrapped in its white packing film. (This is just to say that mine, too, had been sitting in the stockyard for 17 months before I took delivery.)

Driven sparsely, it sits covered for 3-4 weeks at a time. Post monsoon, I had experienced the same kind of eccentric rubbing noise/vibration from the brakes (felt almost like the ABS kicking in). Turned out, there was rust on the discs. However, it got completely rubbed off in just over one km of slow driving with a bit of brake pumping. Recurred once again. But for that, there has been no problem.

Having seen this post, I put the brakes thru the paces; did seem to pull to the left slightly (about 1 meter left over nearly 30 meters of traversal, braking from around 120).
Reported it at the time of the annual service. They checked it out, did some wheel alignment, and the little veering to the left during hard braking at high speed has also got fixed.
So, the problem is probably limited to a few?

[SamirD]

Originally Posted by srinikulkarni

I have had my Kizashi for just over a year now (and, thanks to all those members whose views and analysis helped me decide).

Mine is a July 2011 build. At the time of PDI in December 2012, in Pune, it was still nicely wrapped in its white packing film. (This is just to say that mine, too, had been sitting in the stockyard for 17 months before I took delivery.)

Driven sparsely, it sits covered for 3-4 weeks at a time. Post monsoon, I had experienced the same kind of eccentric rubbing noise/vibration from the brakes (felt almost like the ABS kicking in). Turned out, there was rust on the discs. However, it got completely rubbed off in just over one km of slow driving with a bit of brake pumping. Recurred once again. But for that, there has been no problem.

Having seen this post, I put the brakes thru the paces; did seem to pull to the left slightly (about 1 meter left over nearly 30 meters of traversal, braking from around 120).
Reported it at the time of the annual service. They checked it out, did some wheel alignment, and the little veering to the left during hard braking at high speed has also got fixed.
So, the problem is probably limited to a few?

Interesting.

The problem might be that most have not used the method that you used to clear off the rust from the rotors. If there's a lot of really heavy rust, it can embed itself into the pads and reduce their effectiveness. Even so much so that a hard brake at highway speeds can instantly glaze the pad and start to warp the rotor. Once rotor warpage starts, there's no way to really fix it than to lathe the rotor, effectively making it thinner and easier to warp later.

Here in the US, there was an alignment issue from the factory. Our 2011 Kizashi has the issue, and one of the symptoms is pulling to the left (our driver's side). Suzuki USA release a TSB regarding having the alignment done if any unusual tire wear is found. The specific unusual tire wear is wearing of the inside most rib of the tread. Here's a link to the USA tsb:
http://www.kizashiclub.com/forum/vie...hp?f=12&t=1248

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by SamirD

That's absolutely ridiculous. You can't tell anything about the braking of a car in a few yards. Did they even get up to 30km/hr?

I think it is time to take up their offer on the replacement car. I'm assuming you meant they would give you a new Kizashi. I bet they will not do this, those lying scum bags.

By replacement car they meant they would give me a shuttle for using for a few days till the problem is sorted. The quality of the shuttle cars is so good (pun intended) that I wrote a review on it .

They took the car to 80 and back to 0.


Looks like Maruti boffins have taken up the issue seriously. Some guys from Suzuki Japan are looking into the issue. The ASC says that Suzuki is also looking into this issue directly as the car is jeopardising safety of the driver. The issue has gone to a whole new level. The brake discs have been ordered and should be arriving after uttarayan.

[SamirD]

Originally Posted by rockporiom

Looks like Maruti boffins have taken up the issue seriously. Some guys from Suzuki Japan are looking into the issue. The ASC says that Suzuki is also looking into this issue directly as the car is jeopardising safety of the driver. The issue has gone to a whole new level. The brake discs have been ordered and should be arriving after uttarayan.

This is a move in the right direction. Although waiting for parts like this really sucks.

Ahhh uttarayan. What a fun day that is in Gujarat!

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by SamirD

This is a move in the right direction. Although waiting for parts like this really sucks.

Ahhh uttarayan. What a fun day that is in Gujarat!

Oh you need to see the kite festival. The sky is full of colours and people go mad on the rooftops shouting at the top of their voice "eh lapeet". Can understand quiet well why the parts would come after uttarayan. Even if they arrived I wouldn't leave the kite festival for that

[SamirD]

Originally Posted by rockporiom

Oh you need to see the kite festival. The sky is full of colours and people go mad on the rooftops shouting at the top of their voice "eh lapeet". Can understand quiet well why the parts would come after uttarayan. Even if they arrived I wouldn't leave the kite festival for that

I have.

This was my dad having a little pre-uttarayan fun and showing my brother (who was on his first trip to India) how it's done:

[rockporiom]

Hey guys the discs have arrived today. They are going to replace front discs with new one's and see the difference. The rear 2 will be replaced only if needed. Each disc costs around 8,700/- covered in warranty. I have to pay for pads though.

[rockporiom]

So guys it looks like it is finally a happy ending. The discs have been replaced under warranty. I had to pay Rs. 3400 for the pads as they come under consumables.

Would like to inform all kizashi owners about known problems and solutions to them:

1) Insensitive steering on bad roads - Stabiliser bars and bushes need to be changed. (Source: IshaanIan)

2) heavy vibration while braking: warped rotors or damage to disc due to improper storage. Solution: change discs.

3) tak-tak sound on window auto up: motor needs oiling.

4) sound from suspension on bad roads and car pulling left: Maruti TSB dated june 2011 states changing engine mount to new part.

5) Horn tone not consistent: frequent issue with the low tone horn. Solution: Change low tone horn.

6) Fault codes showing up but no record in SDT: disconnect and reconnect battery. If problem persists replace battery.

7) Accelerating the car does nothing, car not revving or responding to input in auto mode but manual mode works(seen in A/T): problem with throttle body or one of the sensors reading the input from the gas pedal. Solution: Need to refer to OBD tool to identify defective component.

8) Clutch not working properly: bleed the hydraulic clutch system to get rid of air or dirt.