[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by debuda

This is the first reported (at least on TBHP) incident of engine failure in a XUV...

Not just XUV500, I think this is the first mHawk engine failure that I am seeing a report of on Team-BHP.

Originally Posted by interc00led

To me it looks like this is not an oil pump related failure but something else.
...
Break open the casing of oil filter and look for any metal debris in there...
...remove the oil pump and check for any damage caused by foreign particles.

Has similarities with a Safari 2.2L DiCor engine failure that was reported a few years ago - lubrication failure within 60-70 km of the last oil change. Check this link.

[Mudhalaipatti]

I take care of the engine like a baby ( changing of oil every 3500 km on an average).

@me_sid, this is quite an unusual routine. Can you please explain in detail, the procedure adopted during each oil change. Is it top up or full drain-fill new routine ?

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Has similarities with a Safari 2.2L DiCor engine failure that was reported a few years ago

The engines on the Aria and XUV and exactly the same. The specifications are an easy give away. The engine development was done by AVL for TATA and Mahindra.

I'd give it a shot with AVL on asking them how or why this can happen.

[me_sid]

Good Morning All,

Originally Posted by scopriobharath

Has Mahindra offered to replace the engine?

if the head has been opened at 11,000 kms, it is definitely not a good sign. Dust is known to get in even in Engine workshops in countries like UK.

Here, i notice engine is being worked upon in the open.

Get additional 1 year warranty from Mahindra or an engine replacement.

There is absolutely no question of an engine rebuild. And M&M also doesn't support that ( No child part et all). I am being told that the M&M team would be visiting the A.S.S. today and take a call on that.

Originally Posted by abirnale

While we already have found answers for why, what and how, the question remaining is when?
And I hope you aren't going to pay anything out of your pocket for this open heart surgery?
Has M&M offered you a replacement vehicle meanwhile?
Is the issue being managed only at dealer service level by regional engineers or any top-ups are involved?
So far looking at your responses and experience, it seems like M&M has handled the whole episode very well. The real testimony to the manufacturer and dealer is when they deliver on your expectations and create the wow experience!

Yes I have been asked by the dealer for a replacement vehicle , but I won't be needing it since I have my Baleno. It's an added Liability for me right at this moment. No top ups are involved, since things are going in the direction it's supposed to go. The dealer team and the zonal M&M team are taking care, and are doing a pretty neat job, just that in my opinion they are delayed by a day, in taking a decision. And Time Matters! Today let them take a call, if there's any further delay, I have to think about alternate course of action.

Originally Posted by debuda

[*]Low oil pressure warning lamp should have come on.

There wasn't any warning whatsoever. No check engine light, no nothing.

Originally Posted by debuda

[*]In all probability, there should be a DTC code for low oil pressure. If so, the ECU should have registered that DTC code. I’d advise me_sid to check from the A.S.S. whether they found any such DTC code after connecting the OBD / laptop (usually, the OBD is capable of showing not only the current DTC codes but also historic ones).

I was being told that that they had a DTC code regarding low oil pressure. However this was after the engine has seized. What amazes me is why didn't the check engine light come up or the vehicle go into a limp mode. IMHO if there's a fault these are the logical ways of warning the driver that time to go the service centre. But as reported to me yesterday the Sump Pump was not totally dead however there's marks of abrasion in the pump.

Originally Posted by debuda

I find it rather ironic that me_sid has been changing his engine oil at a much higher (5 times!) frequency than recommended by the manufacturer and still his engine fails due to (apparently) an oil related issue.

Yes I changed the engine oil after running in that's 1000 KM, then during 1st service, and then again after I came back from the trip. I guess too much of care has softened the brute.

Originally Posted by debuda

This is the first reported (at least on TBHP) incident of engine failure in a XUV, that too in a relatively new and sparingly used car, and needs to be followed up to its logical conclusion. In any case, complete replacement of the entire engine assembly under warranty should be insisted upon.

I think this would also be the first reported case of an individual who is kicking himself for being the first in TBHP/Country.

Debuda thank you very much, for keeping a close watch and ear (phone call)

Let me see how the day progresses, will keep you guys posted

PS. SSTraveller ( Shamindrada) : All I can say is BRAVO, and that you should seriously think about an alternate profession. Thanks a Ton dada.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by me_sid

...you should seriously think about an alternate profession.

If a change of profession paid enough for me to give up my primary profession, I'd happily migrate, Siddhartha. No one's offered anything like that yet!

[dip27in]

This is indeed a bad news and should not happen to anyone. I have gone through a similar experience of sudden Oil pump failure, although the damages were limited only limited to the crankshaft sleeve bearing. It is a matter of different matter that I changed the crankshaft also to avoid any further stress related issue.

Just a word of suggestion, did M&M use any engine flush and engine oil supplement during your previous oil change ? They come in terribly similar looking packs/cans in most cases and a human error should also not be ruled out. In case of use of a engine flush instead of engine additive can be equally catastrophic. In case you have the invoice of oil change, please check the invoice. The other possible aspects of failure has already been discussed, so didn't want to repeat.

I am sure, the car will soon back in its formal glory.

Regards,

[terra85]

Now this incident has been bought to notice cause the owner was A Bhpian, Considering the history Of problems with XUV, I am sure other people also must have had similar problems but have no voice. Does' nt bode well for people who may be considering buying the XUV at all.

[debuda]

dip27in - Regarding the oil pump problem in your car, was that an XUV? If so, could you please share some more details of the problem (like after how many km this happened, what were the symptoms, what was the exact nature of the defect, probable reasons for the defect, etc.). Here on TBHP we have been under the impression that me_sid's is the first XUV which had an engine failure and was reported on TBHP.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by terra85

Does' nt bode well for people who may be considering buying the XUV at all.

Unnecessary bad-mouthing and scaremongering of a (presently) reliable vehicle.

[arjab]

Sid..,

Looks like the HLA's (hydraulic lash adjusters) have failed in your engine.
Most probably it would be Cylinders 3, 4, & 2??

Root cause of HLA failure is usually FIP (Fuel Injection Pump) failure. FIP failure can potentially be a combination of mechanical and electrical - but usually in Mahindra's case 9/10 it will be electrical.

As the firing order is 1,3,4,2 usually the 1st cylinder escapes, and 3,4,2's HLA's get broken. Actually HLA breaking is a safe thing as this prevents the valve stems from getting bent. But to be safe rather than sorry, please get the valve stems checked and perform a leak test of the head for valve seat leakage.

Best will be if you can get an engine replacement. But this Mahindra may not want to give easily as your engine's responsibility & warranty cost will then be directly with Powertrain Engg deptt of Mahindra - and they will be asked a lot of tough questions as to why a 12k run engine's HLA's have failed !!

[me_sid]

UPDATE

Just received a call, around a hour back from Mr. Chowdhury ( M&M Customer Care, responsible for Royal Motors), He has confirmed the Engine replacement. However I have told him to have a look at the Turbo, since if there's been debris in the oil, that has knocked the oil pump cold, it can jolly well do that to the Turbo. He is going to revert, after checking the turbo. I would be going to the Service Center, and if possible I would be taking the pictures of the fuel pump and the Turbo, and post it here. However point of concern is the time frame, 15 days But then again 7 days for transporting the engine. 2 days to fit everything and 2 -3 days to testing. Sums up to 12 days. Contingency 25%. Okay! Don't have any other option. On Valentine's Day, posting a picture of Airavaat , that's what I fondly call him, taken around a month back inside the dense forest of Chilapota in North Bengal.

Originally Posted by dip27in

This is indeed a bad news and should not happen to anyone. I have gone through a similar experience of sudden Oil pump failure, although the damages were limited only limited to the crankshaft sleeve bearing. It is a matter of different matter that I changed the crankshaft also to avoid any further stress related issue.

Just a word of suggestion, did M&M use any engine flush and engine oil supplement during your previous oil change ? They come in terribly similar looking packs/cans in most cases and a human error should also not be ruled out. In case of use of a engine flush instead of engine additive can be equally catastrophic. In case you have the invoice of oil change, please check the invoice. The other possible aspects of failure has already been discussed, so didn't want to repeat.

I am sure, the car will soon back in its formal glory.

Regards,

Thanks Dip, in fact the fuel pump failure with abrasion can point in various direction. However I don't doubt spurious oil. Maybe debris during filling. However from next time, I would be carrying my own stock of engine oil.

Originally Posted by terra85

Now this incident has been bought to notice cause the owner was A Bhpian, Considering the history Of problems with XUV, I am sure other people also must have had similar problems but have no voice. Does' nt bode well for people who may be considering buying the XUV at all.

I wouldn't be blaming the vehicle boss, It definitely has its fair share of niggles, but this is a freak incident for a otherwise extremely proven tried and tested engine. What's commendable is the way M&M tries to take care of the defects. Try others in the competition range and you would know the difference.

Originally Posted by debuda

dip27in - Regarding the oil pump problem in your car, was that an XUV? If so, could you please share some more details of the problem (like after how many km this happened, what were the symptoms, what was the exact nature of the defect, probable reasons for the defect, etc.). Here on TBHP we have been under the impression that me_sid's is the first XUV which had an engine failure and was reported on TBHP.

Debuda, Dip was talking about his Accent.

Shamindrada : True that!

[hajaar]

To add on to what other people have said in this thread, the M&M experience seems to be far superior to what I received from Ford when my car went kaput. I had to get into yelling matches with SAs for them to admit that the engine fault was Ford's; I didnt get a time-frame in which I would get my car back; I didnt get any updates from Ford and no replacement car either.

My dealer was MPL ford and I got my car back after about 20 days.

Just wanted to re-iterate that one freak incident does not mean that the whole car is bad and/or the company/dealership are bad.

[dip27in]

@debuda: Its was my accent which was already driven for 92k at the point of failure. It has although traveled more than 30k after that incident and is still my reliable companion.

@ sid da: Just a suggestion, please take time off your schedule and supervise the engine fitment process, even though we are not automobile engineers. This will probably help you to gain confidence on the rebuilt process, point out short cut practices and their reluctant attitude towards (little or no) use of Torque wrench, which is mandatory requisite.

All of us want her back in her formal glory.

[baskar]

Glad to know that the problem in your vehicle is diagnosed correctly and repairs are carried out. It must have been a harrowing experience for you with frequent trips to service center and calls to M&M team. At least you can thank that you chose an M&M product like XUV. If it was a VW or Skoda and the problem was as serious as this, it could have been a total loss of piece of mind.

Wishing you long & safe miles with the vehicle once it is back from the workshop

[Vikas Arora]

Glad to know that M&M has agreed to replace complete engine. Handling of this case must be a showcase for other auto companies in India. There is still a chance that this failure might have happened due to contaminated oil which could be due to dealer's (or oil supplier's) negligence but M&M owned this up and agreed to replace the engine. Had this happened with some other brands in India, I am sure reaction from the company would have been very different.

Way to go M&M