[Murugan]

Ford EcoSport 1.5L Petrol AT - TCM failure (Transmission Control Module of Automatic transmission/ dual clutch 6-speed automated gear box [Ford PowerShift DCT]) - replaced under Extended Warranty - 26,162 Kilometers on the Odometer - EcoSport AT less than 3 years old.

Our Ford EcoSport displayed the warning shown below recently:



We called Chennai Ford, Arumbakkam, Chennai service centre who sent a team with a towing vehicle. They checked our Ford EcoSport and said it could be driven to the workshop since it is less than 3 Kms away.

After a few days of our Ford EcoSport being at the service centre we were told that the diagnostic tests indicated that the transmission control module of the automatic transmission had failed, would cost Rs.48,000 to replace, but would be replaced free of cost as the vehicle is under extended warranty for 2 years in addition to the standard warranty of 2 years.

The car battery was also replaced at 70% of the cost under the extended warranty.

Here is the bill we were given after the delivery of the vehicle:



Close up of the bill showing the details:



e-copy of bill part 1:



e-copy of bill part 2:



The service engineer said that this is the first time they have had to change the Transmission Control Module of an Automatic Transmission Ford EcoSport that had not been affected by the Chennai rains of December 2015. Our EcoSport had not been used during the rains and floods, and had undergone the annual service in April 2016 at 25,112 Kms.

He mentioned that over a hundred TCMs had been changed in Ford cars that were devastated by the rains and flooding.

Our Ford EcoSport has been working quite well for the past few weeks after the TCM replacement.

Question: How common is it for the Transmission Control Module or other parts of the Automatic Transmission/ dual clutch 6-speed automated gearbox (Ford PowerShift DCT) of the Ford EcoSport 1.5L Petrol AT to fail? What are the chances that it could fail again? Should I consider selling our EcoSport to avoid a catastrophe beyond the extended warranty period?

Thanks.

[libranof1987]

I just picked up my EcoSport AT couple of weeks back and this thread worries me. I do have 3/4 year Extended Warranty so I think I'm okay until at least the 4 year mark.

Were there any symptoms before the warning came up? Since Ford so willingly changed it under warranty, it mustn't have been an external factor or wear and tear. Did the SA/ mechanic mention any reason why?

[The Rationalist]

I'm really worried now. Did you have any symptoms before the error code came up?I'm having the same transmission in Aspire and it behaves erratically at times. I think I will have to sell it before extended warranty expires and that would mean pre closure of loan and scouting for another car very early. Considering Ford's reputation I can't expect much when I put it up for sale also.Is there no reliable dual clutch automatics out there? But the automatic has really spoiled me to be honest. Will never go back to a manual transmission for daily use.

[GTO]

Was hoping that Ford's DCT will be more reliable than VW's DSG. But it's been a headache for owners & Ford alike. In the USA, Ford has gone through a lot of trouble with the DCT.

A related thread

Also, another thread for those wanting to know more about the DCT - link.

Originally Posted by Murugan

but would be replaced free of cost as the vehicle is under extended warranty for 2 years in addition to the standard warranty of 2 years.

The car battery was also replaced at 70% of the cost under the extended warranty.

Full marks to Ford for honouring the warranty without any questions asked .

Now you know why I love extended warranties - related thread.

The service engineer said that this is the first time they have had to change the Transmission Control Module of an Automatic Transmission Ford EcoSport

Might be the first time for them. In the USA however, Ford has replaced thousands of TCMs in a recall.

Should I consider selling our EcoSport to avoid a catastrophe beyond the extended warranty period?

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

I think I will have to sell it before extended warranty expires and that would mean pre closure of loan and scouting for another car very early.

Come on guys, selling a car because of the fear of TCM failure is unwarranted. Let's say, worse case, your TCM fails again after 3 years. It'll cost 50k at Ford and could be much cheaper if you source the part yourself. Keeping the car and replacing the TCM will be a lot, LOT cheaper than selling it out of fear. I was once stuck with a car (C220) that did give me a lot of trouble. However, keeping & repairing it was a much cheaper option than selling it and taking the depreciation hit.

[The Rationalist]

Originally Posted by GTO

Come on guys, selling a car because of the fear of TCM failure is unwarranted. Let's say, worse case, your TCM fails again after 3 years. It'll cost 50k at Ford and could be much cheaper if you source the part yourself. Keeping the car and replacing the TCM will be a lot, LOT cheaper than selling it out of fear. I was once stuck with a car (C220) that did give me a lot of trouble. However, keeping & repairing it was a much cheaper option than selling it and taking the depreciation hit.

Thanks GTO, this is why exactly this forum is awesome, when people like me fret for silly things there are many who can bring back sanity and make one calm down and think again. Yep, at the most even after extended warranty expires, it can't cost as much what one would lose in depreciation and resale value. I'm set for another long ownership I guess.

[gsurya]

Ford has acknowledged problems with the Ecosport DCT. They are doing recalls in the US, so Ford DCT owners in India should take it up with them here collectively to put pressure on them to do so if needed & also extend warranty further

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257EB500162FBA

[PratikPatel]

Even Six Sigma accuracy will guarantee an accuracy rate of 99.997% or 3 DPMO (defects per million opportunities). Defects are still acceptable in a system till they don't exceed that limit. Therefore, defects are part and parcel of any production line. There is no way to gurantee that every transmission that comes off a production line will be trouble free through its lifetime. No car maker can guarantee it and even with all the checks and measures some bad apples will get out of the factory.

What would worry me was if there was a inherent design defect in the transmission. Ford admits that when it first introduced the DCT gearboxes (it is still fighting lawsuits in U.S.) there were problems especially with Fiesta and Focus models. However, it claims to have sorted the issues out since then.

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

I'm really worried now. Did you have any symptoms before the error code came up?I'm having the same transmission in Aspire and it behaves erratically at times. I think I will have to sell it before extended warranty expires and that would mean pre closure of loan and scouting for another car very early. Considering Ford's reputation I can't expect much when I put it up for sale also.Is there no reliable dual clutch automatics out there? But the automatic has really spoiled me to be honest. Will never go back to a manual transmission for daily use.

[arunphilip]

Originally Posted by Murugan

Question: How common is it for the Transmission Control Module or other parts of the Automatic Transmission/ dual clutch 6-speed automated gearbox (Ford PowerShift DCT) of the Ford EcoSport 1.5L Petrol AT to fail? What are the chances that it could fail again? Should I consider selling our EcoSport to avoid a catastrophe beyond the extended warranty period?

The TCM is the electro-mechanical brain of the DCT. Most issues with the PowerShift DCT are attributed to the TCM. The rest of the gearbox is a rather standard mechanical gearbox. Check out the link (Ford PowerShift Dual-Clutch Transmission (DCT) - A Technical Overview) that GTO posted to the thread about the DCT gearbox for more info.

I hate to say this, but if there's a failure in future not due to wear and tear, 99% it'll be the TCM again.

As GTO and gsurya have pointed out, DCT failures have been quite common for Ford. While Ford's approach is commendable, I have to say it will be frustrating to owners to have this reliability sword hanging over their heads.

Tying in to libranof1987's question - was any further detail provided by the SA (or the diagnostics tool) as to the more detailed cause of the issue> Any error codes? Most likely, they have a pre-defined set of error codes for which the solution is 'swap out the TCM', but if we know which one it might be useful for understanding it.

Also, what is your driving pattern in Chennai? Mostly bound in traffic? Lots of idling? Or mostly highways?

Finally, write to Ford CC and ask them to give you a further extension of 2 years or so warranty on the TCM alone, or DCT overall. Since the TCM is a new module (and not just a single piece), if it fails in future even outside the EW for the car, they should cover you with a separate TCM warranty. I've no clue if they will agree to this or not, but in the absence of anything that can be attributed to driver error, then they should step up and cover you.

[noopster]

Uh oh. ..This is the point at which VAG supporters smile smugly and say, it's a dual clutch after all! Jokes apart, quote possible this is a one off genuine manufacturing defect and good of Ford to fix it with no questions asked. Of course if it had happened post warranty their reaction would have been interesting to observe!

[GTO]

Originally Posted by noopster

Uh oh. ..This is the point at which VAG supporters smile smugly and say, it's a dual clutch after all!

Two things in favour of Ford:

1. The DCT's problems still haven't left owners stranded on the road like VW's DSG does. Even in this case, it appears that the EcoSport was driven to the workshop 3 km away.

2. Ford's service quality in India is much better than that of VW. Fords are also overall more reliable than VWs.

[Rajeevraj]

Ford has been through a lot of heartache with the DCT in countries like US and Australia. Recently had read about a lawsuit filed against Ford in Australia. Had posted a thread on it here(Link)

Good that Ford covered this under the warranty without any drama around it. Considering the bad feedback it has got all over the world, Ford may have instructed dealers to handle DCT issues on priority and without any trouble to the customer. Have a Ecosport DCT in the immediate family. While it is worrying to hear about the failure, the fact that it was taken care of properly is a slight relief.

[DragonHawk]

Slightly OT here, but I found this interesting video on DCT. Thought might be useful to folks here

https://youtu.be/W42zsFYjZvM

[nishantbhatia84]

I'm good friends with an ex-ford service advisor who assured me that there have been absolutely no issues with the dct of the Ecosport till date and the transmission runs flawlessly even for 2.5lakh kms and above.
So this seems to be a one-off case to me, specially since there are hardly any complaints registered about the same on this forum as well.
Personally I've completed over 35k on my Ecosport automatic and the car is running perfectly fine - even with cng conversion done.

[Murugan]

Believe me, the "Transmission malfunction Service now" warning on our Ford EcoSport 1.5 AT really scared us as it brought visions of horror stories of DSG gearboxes from Skoda and Volkswagen, on team-bhp website and elsewhere. The DSG scare was one of the prime reasons why we never ended up buying the Skoda Laura 1.8 TSI AT and the Volkswagen Polo GT 1.2 TSI AT, two automatic transmission petrol cars we loved for the sheer acceleration, build quality and safety features, at costs we could afford.

Let me try answering the questions one by one, a few at a time.

Originally Posted by libranof1987

I just picked up my EcoSport AT couple of weeks back and this thread worries me.

Were there any symptoms before the warning came up? Since Ford so willingly changed it under warranty, it mustn't have been an external factor or wear and tear. Did the SA/ mechanic mention any reason why?

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

Did you have any symptoms before the error code came up?I'm having the same transmission in Aspire and it behaves erratically at times.

We did not note any symptoms/ problems with the automatic transmission till this happened. We've really enjoyed this car from the time of purchase as can be seen in this review of mine on team-bhp:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ip-review.html

On my strong recommendation, at least four other immediate friends purchased the same petrol automatic version of the Ford EcoSport and several others bought various other models of the EcoSport, both petrol and diesel. Most of them, men, women and children alike, have fallen in Love with the EcoSport for its sheer practicality, convenience, safety, versatility, on-road presence etc.

One of my friends had an accident on the highway when a two wheeler rider suddenly jumped across the median and he had to slam the brakes of his petrol EcoBoost 1.0L Ford EcoSport. He walked out of the accident unscathed, and for this he thanks the design and build quality of the EcoSport, its safety features including ABS, the six airbags that deployed etc etc. One of his other cars is a Skoda Laura diesel manual transmission.

My friends who own the EcoSport automatics were also quite concerned when I informed them of what happened to ours, and a couple of new buyers have now preferred the Hyundai Creta AT over the Ford EcoSport AT for this reason.

No, the service staff at Chennai Ford service station did not have any reason to explain why their Ford PowerShift DCT on our EcoSport AT failed prematurely. He said they were in email communication with Ford India and Ford India engineers also could also not explain why the TCM had malfunctioned/ failed. They did not attribute any external factor or wear and tear for this malfunction.

Apart from a noisy engine and a wish for more power, we absolutely love the Ford EcoSport AT, like all of my friends and relatives who own this and other variants.

The only error code that had come up earlier was ‘Brake system malfunction Stop safely’ which I've discussed on this page:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...-review-9.html

Originally Posted by Murugan

Is Ford EcoSport ‘Brake system malfunction Stop safely’ warning indication actually an indication of car battery ‘weakness’ and not an indication of brake system malfunction?

Permit me to answer the next set of questions at a later point in time. Thanks.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by nishantbhatia84

dct of the Ecosport till date and the transmission runs flawlessly even for 2.5lakh kms and above.

That's quite a sweeping statement and I'll take it with a pinch of salt. The EcoSport was only launched in June 2013. That makes it exactly 3 years.

Even if someone got an EcoSport AT in June 2013 (which isn't the case as deliveries started later), he'd have to have driven 7,000 km a month to complete 2.5 lakh km by now. How many EcoSport ATs has this service advisor seen with 250,000 km on the odometer?

He can't be talking about the Fiesta DCT either as that car's deliveries started only in end 2011. Still looking at between 4,000 - 5,000 kms a month of running.

In other words, this dude is wildly exaggerating and we'll have to discount his statement.