[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

What I am still confused about is - why can't the cars be designed to stop after some time/distance if the key is not inside? What would be the potential risks/thinking behind not programming it this way?

What if your car was at an intersection or a railway crossing when that moment happened?

Only two ways about it - either the car runs indefinitely without the key or the mechanism is sensitive enough to detect the difference between key inside the car and key just outside.

[isiv]

Strange, I just happened to stumble into this paper a couple days back. And this thread shows up

If you're not a details guy, you might just want to run though the implications sections.

sec16_paper_garcia.pdf

There are more articles that talk about hacking the canbus to turn off the lights, display spurious readings on the meters and what not. Not posting that to keep from digressing.

Originally Posted by sridhu

I am not sure I am getting thru, though.

This might drive home the point.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

What if your car was at an intersection or a railway crossing when that moment happened?

Only two ways about it - either the car runs indefinitely without the key or the mechanism is sensitive enough to detect the difference between key inside the car and key just outside.

Well, that is exaggeration. That would be accident, same as if a car with a manual key stalls at a railway crossing and won't start for whatever reason. As I said earlier, an RFID tag can solve this problem easily. Since manufacturers are not using any method to stop the car when key is not in range, means there has to be some other reasons behind it. They know better.

[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by sukhoi30

Okay, they can program the car to stop running if the key is not inside the car, but for that the sensor should keep checking the keyfob all the time. The keyfob should also relay its presence all the time which would drain its battery very soon.

In my Cruze, the sensor keeps checking the presence of the key continuously. Within secs the key is gone, the key not found error is displayed even when the vehicle is in motion. And i guess it will be similar in other cars as well. And my key battery lasted 4 years.

And RFID do not need line of sight and long range RFID based on UHF can scan the item from upto 15 metres without a battery on the receiver.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

Well, that is exaggeration. That would be accident, same as if a car with a manual key stalls at a railway crossing and won't start for whatever reason.

No, there's a difference. One is an error or failure, the other is the car stopping by design in an unexpected manner.

The lawyers will have a field day with the latter.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

No, there's a difference. One is an error or failure, the other is the car stopping by design in an unexpected manner.

The lawyers will have a field day with the latter.

No, if the car is designed to stop and it is clearly mentioned in the manual, it is an accident or negligence. Besides, what are the odds of that happening?

As I said, there should be some other reason, a more obvious one which we might be missing here.

[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

With due respect, those lines of comparison are absurd.

Color TV v/s B & W TV is a world of difference, so is AT v/s MT.

You have misquoted what I have said, I am just trying to emphasise how the government was just taking decisions that the country was not ready for a color tv, but people who knew what it was were importing these. My comparison with AT and MT was to emphasise how it's a user adoption issue and once you get over it's actually a breaze.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

If I have to keyless entry and go systems on the same lines, it would having a padlock and manual crank to start the engine.

To each his own. No comments.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

With all due respect, you're entitled to your opinion. My experience with these systems is limited as I drive cars that are a decade old. On reading the experiences of various users on the thread, I think there's a consensus that these systems have some loopholes which can be exploited easily.

People who own or have extensively owned cars with these features are not the ones speaking against it, it's neither overzealous passion which guides what they say, but I have felt quite the opposite in what people opposing it are saying. There are no major loopholes like few mention here, the system is as safe as a system can be. It's tried and tested, your car will only start if the key is very close to it, so chances of leaving without the key very slim. Now isn't it wise to listen to what people with experience have to say, rather than trusting people who don't have much experience?

Pramod

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

No, if the car is designed to stop and it is clearly mentioned in the manual, it is an accident or negligence. Besides, what are the odds of that happening?

As I said, there should be some other reason, a more obvious one which we might be missing here.

I've told you the reason. Any lawyer will agree - it is not about the odds of something happening, it is about jeopardizing lives through bad design.

Feel free to continue searching for different reasons.

[krishsreedharan]

Originally Posted by ashis89

I hate the routine when I have to go to the Aux power mode without starting the car. Almost everytime, we end up starting the car though we don't intend to. I miss the control of a physical key

Hi ashis89, you might want to try this - keep the keyfob with you and press the start/stop button without pressing the clutch (if the car is a manual transmission one) or the brake, if the car is an auto transmission one.

This should allow you to put the car in Accessories mode without turning on the engine. Worked this way on my earlier City VX AT and works the same way in my Superb AT.

Hope this helps.

[aboveallkaran]

I drive a sonata transform which is equipped with keyless ignition as well as the key can be inserted in the key slot. I always prefer using the key to start the engine and drive.

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by kutoos

How did you manage to start & dive to JWM if the car keys were at home? Just curious as i believe that you need teh key fob with you to start the car?

I was returning from office with my driver driving. Plan was to pick the family and self drive. Driver had the key and he got off. Neither of us realised this fact as we were busy in getting my office stuff out and my family in. I simply started driving! Also, this is my dad's car ( both his cars, Altis and Ciaz have keyless start ) which I rarely use, so I didn't realise it. Both my cars, City and DZire don't have this feature.

Rest what happened is as per Sukhoi post below :

Originally Posted by sukhoi30

You can drive the car without a key until the car is shutdown or the fuel runs out.

[IndieGooner]

Originally Posted by ashtrix

Its unlikely that key fob battery will die out so soon. Nexa guy told me that my S cross key fob battery can start the engine 25000 times. So even if I start my car 10 times a day I dont have to worry for 6-7 years and after that I will have the spare key for another 6-7 years.

Advice given by my Hyundai dealer - key fob battery will die if left unused. So swap the keys every month or so to get maximum life out of them. Fact or not, I have been following this religiously for past 10 months of ownership.

[prasadee]

Originally Posted by sukhoi30

Similarly, with the smart key system, the keyfob generates a rolling code. When you press the door open knob or the keyfob button to unlock the car, the computer in the car too generates a rolling code. If the key belongs to your car, then the codes match and the door is opened. When you start the car, again the codes are matched and the proximity sensor checks the presence of the key inside the car before starting the engine. The proximity sensor is a different thing and checks presence of key inside the car when you lock/unlock the car. It is used only to ensure that the car doesn't get locked with the key inside the car. The car doesn't have to have the key inside the car to drive the vehicle. Okay, they can program the car to stop running if the key is not inside the car, but for that the sensor should keep checking the keyfob all the time. The keyfob should also relay its presence all the time which would drain its battery very soon.

Most cars I know - have continuous checks like a watchdog timer or a heartbeat. When the key is removed from the car (even while engine is on), there is continuous beeping in the car for a while. Some cars display text in Red "Key not detected in the car". In my Mazda a key light shows up in red on the dash. Of course one can choose to ignore all the warnings - drive away, turn off the engine and get stuck.

I also have a Prius, which has no concept of Engine being on. It is so quiet when stopped, that it is very normal to leave the car in "On/Started" position, with the key in the pocket/purse. That makes it a necessary feature.

[rosh_aveo1.4]

I have a Sunny XV model and first thought this keyless thing is a waste and risky. But it's been 3 years and I would say it's really good. No more fishing for the key from my pockets and pressing the unlock button. Just go there and press either of the door to unlock. And same for the boot whereby I don't have to open it with a key or remote control or pull the lever from the driver door....just simply walkover and press the button on the boot.
There was this incident sometime back where I went for a beach trip with my friends and I left the electronic key in my bag since I thought it may get lost. Now when I'm back....I opened the boot as usual by that button...put my bag in the boot and close the boot lid. Whatever happens, the damn thing won't close. I first thought it was a lock mechanism issue but then realised that I left the key in the boot and it refuses to lock until I take it out from the boot. Now that's really something. If that wasn't there..I would have locked myself out. Not sure if your conventional key does this.
I do have 3 other cars at home that use the normal key system and never got confused and sometimes yes...I wish they were keyless too.

[noo.b]

I can completely identify with this thread as I recently moved from a Punto to a Baleno. There sure are some advantages of the keyless entry and go system that I have found useful on a few occasions like being able to unlock the car with my hands full and not having to look for the key as long as I know its with me somewhere.

As I have moved from a torquey diesel to a petrol I occasionally stall the car while slowing down to cross these mini speed bumps. Getting it going instantly becomes an issue as the start / stop button needs you to press the brakes and the clutch simultaneously to start it back on, braking with lots of cars tailing you invites a lot of honks. I may be doing it wrong, but in situations like such I would have preferred to use a traditional key instead of the gimmicky start stop button.

Also on a couple occasions when I and my brother exchanged driving duties and make the occasional stop I end up walking away with the key fob in my pocket and the car gets stalled. I guess its just a matter of getting used to it, however it definitely has caused some minor issues. Ideally I would have liked the convenience of keyless entry with the possibility of a key to get the car to go.