Palio 1.6 Sport Temperature doubt

Joe-Ker · 23rd April 2010, 13:14

Hello guys.

I have bought a 2002 Fiat palio 1.2 ELX in January2010.
Kochi Regn. Which i feel is a good buy considering it has an endorsed LPG kit and scratch free.

I am actually impressed with the car. The interiors are of excellent quality and The steering is divine. Overall driving experience is like a big luxury sedan. compared to our old esteem and even my cousins Swift DDis

But one day my brother (A spirited driver and car fanatic who extracts every bit of performance from the car) was taking my mom to a function in the car and he noticed the A/c is no longer cooling the car. then he noticed the temp gauge was pointing straight up! way beyond the highest marking. He stopped immediately and waited for the hood to cool down enough for him to pen the hood (it was steaming hot) and found the cooling fan was not working. He then waited some more until engine was cool and then limped to a nearby garage, turning off the engine whenever the temp reached 80%(This is the redline according to Palio manual).

The garage guy peeked under the car saw that the fan wire was cut. He reattached it with tape and the fan started working again. He was reluctant to work on a palio and said take it to RF motors (the fiat authorised service center in kochi ) to do a proper job of putting in new wires and the works. he did not even take money!!

On the way back my brother noticed that the engine temp was fluctuating every which way. from 40% mark to 80% Mark.
Soon he noticed a patern to the madness and discovered that when the engine is idle, the temp is shooting up and comes down when it is revved.
So basically if you drive one gear lower and revv at redlights, the temp gauge remains around the 50% mark.

He took it to RF motors the next day and they asked him to leave it with them. He was pretty mad at how they treated him as they were not ready even to listen to the symptoms. just said 'Overheating? we will take care of it sir. dont worry' after three follow up calls that day they examined the car and diagonosed failed head gasket but would not tell how they came to that conclusion. My bro asked this because he had already checked and found no oil film in coolant(water) or no air bubbles if radiator was kept open while engine running, though water is flowing out of the reservoir, even some steam after some time in idling condition.

He took the car back as the price quoted was 6000 and he was not sure about the diagnosis. They did not even hook it up with the ECU scanner.

A local mechanic, who used to take care of our esteem earlier wanted a shot at it but returned it after a day saying he could not find the reason. But he strongly said 'be doubly sure before replacing the head gasket' as he too suspects it is not the problem.

We have been using the car for a month now in that condition, careful to rev in time to keep the temp gauge around the 50% area. The car runs fine otherwise, breathes fire even! pun intended

Now the fan is running at high speeds almost all the time and if i leave the ignition on, it runs forver after the engine is switched off. I am scared it might burn out from over work and want my palio back in pristine shape. (Cos all my family has fallen i love with the car, dad the drivability, bro the attention to detail and handling, me with the quality of parts and solid feel and handling, and mom with the plush ride quality and wonderful A/c)

Has any one else experienced these problems?
Is there a good mechanic in kochi who does good work on palio?
Is it really the head gasket? or something else?

If nothing else is possible , i might just give iit to RF anyway and let them have thieir way. cos i dont want to keep on using it this way.

Will be glad if my fellow BHPians could help.

Btw the car is used very sparingly, when me or my brother is at home (We both work in other cities) hardly 50km a week and especilayy because of the heating problem we are avoiding using the car as much as possiible.

Joe

JVH · 23rd April 2010, 13:28

You may want to look at the fan motor. Very often this is the culprit. My fan motor had conked off and this was the experience I had to go through

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...78000-kms.html

Joe-Ker · 23rd April 2010, 14:04

Thanks JVH.I am reading your thread now, right form the beginning.(The story as far as i read is very similar to mine)
I will get the motor checked, It can be checked using the ECU scanner right?

Can somebody tell me the nornal operating temperature of a palio 1.2.
Now i am beginnning to wonder, is it over heating at all? my cars temp once its warmed up rarely goes below the 50% mark.

sandeepmohan · 23rd April 2010, 14:50

The Fiat Palio has a very advanced cooling system for the engine. I don't know in what way but I like the accuracy of the whole system. I will agree that it can be scary at most times.

A colleague owns the 1.6 variant and the car behaves the same way as posted in the original thread. It is not over heating at all but does give you something to worry about once the temperature crosses the 60% mark.

The behavior is different for the car running with Air Conditioner and when the Air Conditioning is switched off. The radiator and AC Evaporator cooling fan is common (Some cars have independent fans) so when the Air Conditioning is not running the Thermostat delays the Fan Cut In but this is not a defect. However you must pay attention for the Fan cutting in cause if its not then there is a problem and you will end up with steamy situation.

With the Air Conditioning running and lets say you are cruising on the free way the temperature should not cross even 30%. Yupp. The engine stay very cool on the highway.

The temperature should not cross over 50% mark even in the city cycle with the Air Conditioning running.

Its a mixed bag if you don't have the Air Conditioning working. If there is enough air flow into the engine the temperature stays at some point in the safe range, 50% and below. If poor air flow, stop & go conditions you will easily end up with the needle at a dangerous 80% but the engine won't over heat. This happens due to a very delayed cooling fan start up. Need not necessarily be a sensor failure. The system is just designed in this manner. However make sure the cooling system is intact. There should be no leaks, coolant system liquids should be not be low & make sure the fan works.

A few other cars that suffer from a delayed cooling system Fan Start Up are Fiat Palios, Fiat Petra, Fiat Siena, Ford Ikon & Opel Corsa. These are the one's I know very well and have had experience.

ravikn · 23rd April 2010, 14:58

Joe,

I guess in your case, it must be only two possible things if you can hear the FAN working properly once it reaches the temperature.

1. Thermostat may not be working properly. Need to clean/replace thermostat valve

2. A gone Engine Head gasket. this can set you back by 3-4K. Show it to a good mechanic asap to avoid any further damage to engine.

drifter · 23rd April 2010, 14:59

Firstly I'd check all the relays for the cooling fans, that is after the wiring has been sorted. After that I'd check if the thermostat is in proper working order. Also since you said it has the LPG kit, I would check that. If it isn't tuned properly, it can lead to overheating. Also have the radiator serviced. The temperature on my car remains between 1/4 and lower than half even in traffic with the aircon.

Drifter

Joe-Ker · 24th April 2010, 02:41

Thanks for the replies guys.

So the head gasket failure that RF motors guys said may be true.
I am facing this issue in both petrol and LPG, so i guess its got nothing to do with the kit.

I may go to kochi next weekend, so i will get them to check the thermostat too.

And RF motors guys quoted 6000 for the head gasket replacement. Is it reasonable?, i have heard that we need to change the head bolts too as they can be torqued only once. is that right?

ravikn · 26th April 2010, 12:24

Joe-Ker,

I think if they would be replacing the bolts also, then it might be close to 6K since the head gasket kit price would be around 3.5K-4.0K for the complete set depending on the one being used on your engine.

sans_80 · 1st May 2010, 14:39

Hi,

i had the same problem, but the cause for this problem was obstuction in the coolant pipe, which was rectified immediately. Thanks to Adi on Concorde BBII Unit, Bangalore.

vipul_singh · 18th August 2011, 22:21

Here is an update (with reference to post #23)

I got the coolant thermostat changed. Earlier, the coolant temperature with the A/C on or when cruising in cold temperature was 2 mm above the 'C' mark. With the new thermostat, the temp with A/C on is at about 5mm above 'C' mark. Looks like the old thermostat was letting water into the radiator too early.

I hope the heater's performance in peak winter improves considerably

23rd April 2010, 13:14	#31
Joe-Ker BHPian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: KL41-MH14-TN14 Posts: 98 Thanked: 49 Times	Fiat Palio temperature issues Hello guys. I have bought a 2002 Fiat palio 1.2 ELX in January2010. Kochi Regn. Which i feel is a good buy considering it has an endorsed LPG kit and scratch free. I am actually impressed with the car. The interiors are of excellent quality and The steering is divine. Overall driving experience is like a big luxury sedan. compared to our old esteem and even my cousins Swift DDis But one day my brother (A spirited driver and car fanatic who extracts every bit of performance from the car) was taking my mom to a function in the car and he noticed the A/c is no longer cooling the car. then he noticed the temp gauge was pointing straight up! way beyond the highest marking. He stopped immediately and waited for the hood to cool down enough for him to pen the hood (it was steaming hot) and found the cooling fan was not working. He then waited some more until engine was cool and then limped to a nearby garage, turning off the engine whenever the temp reached 80%(This is the redline according to Palio manual). The garage guy peeked under the car saw that the fan wire was cut. He reattached it with tape and the fan started working again. He was reluctant to work on a palio and said take it to RF motors (the fiat authorised service center in kochi ) to do a proper job of putting in new wires and the works. he did not even take money!! On the way back my brother noticed that the engine temp was fluctuating every which way. from 40% mark to 80% Mark. Soon he noticed a patern to the madness and discovered that when the engine is idle, the temp is shooting up and comes down when it is revved. So basically if you drive one gear lower and revv at redlights, the temp gauge remains around the 50% mark. He took it to RF motors the next day and they asked him to leave it with them. He was pretty mad at how they treated him as they were not ready even to listen to the symptoms. just said 'Overheating? we will take care of it sir. dont worry' after three follow up calls that day they examined the car and diagonosed failed head gasket but would not tell how they came to that conclusion. My bro asked this because he had already checked and found no oil film in coolant(water) or no air bubbles if radiator was kept open while engine running, though water is flowing out of the reservoir, even some steam after some time in idling condition. He took the car back as the price quoted was 6000 and he was not sure about the diagnosis. They did not even hook it up with the ECU scanner. A local mechanic, who used to take care of our esteem earlier wanted a shot at it but returned it after a day saying he could not find the reason. But he strongly said 'be doubly sure before replacing the head gasket' as he too suspects it is not the problem. We have been using the car for a month now in that condition, careful to rev in time to keep the temp gauge around the 50% area. The car runs fine otherwise, breathes fire even! pun intended Now the fan is running at high speeds almost all the time and if i leave the ignition on, it runs forver after the engine is switched off. I am scared it might burn out from over work and want my palio back in pristine shape. (Cos all my family has fallen i love with the car, dad the drivability, bro the attention to detail and handling, me with the quality of parts and solid feel and handling, and mom with the plush ride quality and wonderful A/c) Has any one else experienced these problems? Is there a good mechanic in kochi who does good work on palio? Is it really the head gasket? or something else? If nothing else is possible , i might just give iit to RF anyway and let them have thieir way. cos i dont want to keep on using it this way. Will be glad if my fellow BHPians could help. Btw the car is used very sparingly, when me or my brother is at home (We both work in other cities) hardly 50km a week and especilayy because of the heating problem we are avoiding using the car as much as possiible. Joe
	() Thanks

23rd April 2010, 13:28	#32
JVH Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,045 Thanked: 207 Times	You may want to look at the fan motor. Very often this is the culprit. My fan motor had conked off and this was the experience I had to go through http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...78000-kms.html
	() Thanks

23rd April 2010, 14:04	#33
Joe-Ker BHPian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: KL41-MH14-TN14 Posts: 98 Thanked: 49 Times	Thanks JVH.I am reading your thread now, right form the beginning.(The story as far as i read is very similar to mine) I will get the motor checked, It can be checked using the ECU scanner right? Can somebody tell me the nornal operating temperature of a palio 1.2. Now i am beginnning to wonder, is it over heating at all? my cars temp once its warmed up rarely goes below the 50% mark.
	() Thanks

23rd April 2010, 14:50	#34
sandeepmohan Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Wellington Posts: 3,133 Thanked: 5,443 Times	The Fiat Palio has a very advanced cooling system for the engine. I don't know in what way but I like the accuracy of the whole system. I will agree that it can be scary at most times. A colleague owns the 1.6 variant and the car behaves the same way as posted in the original thread. It is not over heating at all but does give you something to worry about once the temperature crosses the 60% mark. The behavior is different for the car running with Air Conditioner and when the Air Conditioning is switched off. The radiator and AC Evaporator cooling fan is common (Some cars have independent fans) so when the Air Conditioning is not running the Thermostat delays the Fan Cut In but this is not a defect. However you must pay attention for the Fan cutting in cause if its not then there is a problem and you will end up with steamy situation. With the Air Conditioning running and lets say you are cruising on the free way the temperature should not cross even 30%. Yupp. The engine stay very cool on the highway. The temperature should not cross over 50% mark even in the city cycle with the Air Conditioning running. Its a mixed bag if you don't have the Air Conditioning working. If there is enough air flow into the engine the temperature stays at some point in the safe range, 50% and below. If poor air flow, stop & go conditions you will easily end up with the needle at a dangerous 80% but the engine won't over heat. This happens due to a very delayed cooling fan start up. Need not necessarily be a sensor failure. The system is just designed in this manner. However make sure the cooling system is intact. There should be no leaks, coolant system liquids should be not be low & make sure the fan works. A few other cars that suffer from a delayed cooling system Fan Start Up are Fiat Palios, Fiat Petra, Fiat Siena, Ford Ikon & Opel Corsa. These are the one's I know very well and have had experience.
	() Thanks

23rd April 2010, 14:58	#35
ravikn BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 344 Thanked: 25 Times	Joe, I guess in your case, it must be only two possible things if you can hear the FAN working properly once it reaches the temperature. 1. Thermostat may not be working properly. Need to clean/replace thermostat valve 2. A gone Engine Head gasket. this can set you back by 3-4K. Show it to a good mechanic asap to avoid any further damage to engine.
	() Thanks

23rd April 2010, 14:59	#36
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	Firstly I'd check all the relays for the cooling fans, that is after the wiring has been sorted. After that I'd check if the thermostat is in proper working order. Also since you said it has the LPG kit, I would check that. If it isn't tuned properly, it can lead to overheating. Also have the radiator serviced. The temperature on my car remains between 1/4 and lower than half even in traffic with the aircon. Drifter Last edited by drifter : 23rd April 2010 at 15:02.
	() Thanks

24th April 2010, 02:41	#37
Joe-Ker BHPian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: KL41-MH14-TN14 Posts: 98 Thanked: 49 Times	Thanks for the replies guys. So the head gasket failure that RF motors guys said may be true. I am facing this issue in both petrol and LPG, so i guess its got nothing to do with the kit. I may go to kochi next weekend, so i will get them to check the thermostat too. And RF motors guys quoted 6000 for the head gasket replacement. Is it reasonable?, i have heard that we need to change the head bolts too as they can be torqued only once. is that right?
	() Thanks

26th April 2010, 12:24	#38
ravikn BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 344 Thanked: 25 Times	Joe-Ker, I think if they would be replacing the bolts also, then it might be close to 6K since the head gasket kit price would be around 3.5K-4.0K for the complete set depending on the one being used on your engine.
	() Thanks

1st May 2010, 14:39	#39
sans_80 Newbie Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 12 Thanked: Once	Hi, i had the same problem, but the cause for this problem was obstuction in the coolant pipe, which was rectified immediately. Thanks to Adi on Concorde BBII Unit, Bangalore.
	() Thanks

18th August 2011, 22:21	#40
vipul_singh BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: BLR / Lucknow Posts: 595 Thanked: 833 Times View My Garage	Re: Palio 1.6 Sport Temperature doubt Here is an update (with reference to post #23) I got the coolant thermostat changed. Earlier, the coolant temperature with the A/C on or when cruising in cold temperature was 2 mm above the 'C' mark. With the new thermostat, the temp with A/C on is at about 5mm above 'C' mark. Looks like the old thermostat was letting water into the radiator too early. I hope the heater's performance in peak winter improves considerably Last edited by vipul_singh : 18th August 2011 at 22:23.
	(1) Thanks