Team-BHP (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)

-   Technical Stuff (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/)

-   -   Busting the myth of BS6 / BSVI compliant engines in India (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/209485-busting-myth-bs6-bsvi-compliant-engines-india-2.html)

Approx. Price of BSVI diesel obtained from IOC- Rohtak in March is as below:

@SS-Traveller; I face similar issues with BSIII/IV. I delayed my purchase of a Civic do that. As it happened as Honda made the reversing sensors standard the landed price was lower.

What makes you this so? Since Supreme court's brutal decision to stop sales of BS3 after implementation of BS4, no one is taking a chance . From TeamBHP posts I am getting the opposite feeling.

To elaborate my comment, I have(not so clearly) stated that high Sulphur does impact the after treatment system. When I say that emission standards are independent of the fuel, I meant the certification test ( which takes a few hours of test in a lab environment). Sulphur is expected to settle on the after treatment system on road and reduces their efficacy. In the certification test if we use BSIV fuel on a BSVI vehicle, only PM will slightly go up engine out which shouldn't be a big deal in the presence of a DPF.

True. More importantly, the additional sulphur in petrol / diesel poisons the catalytic converter (these are newer generation 3WCC devices, more expensive and effective than what is already in use for BS-IV vehicles).
This is the main bone of contention. There is no way, long-term, that a BSVI vehicle will continue to produce lower emissions when BSIV fuel (or, for that matter, adulterated BSVI fuel) is being used. And if certain undisclosable sources in the oil industry are to be believed, there is no way every single pump in India will switch to BS-VI fuels from Day 1.
The Supreme Court order to change from BS-III to BS-IV pan-India only happened in 2017, while Delhi-NCR went BS-IV on 1/4/2010. In the meanwhile, for those 7 years, BS-IV vehicles ran on BS-III fuels every time they travelled out of the NCR area. No guesses about what happened to the emission control systems, especially the catcon, of these vehicles, over these years. BS-VI running on BS-IV fuels will tread the same path.

Show me one published research paper about testing the emissions of BS-IV vehicles registered in/after April 2010 after they ran for a few years on BS-III fuels. No one is bothered about long-term emissions control, and BS-VI norms and engines are truly BS if BS-IV fuels are used to run them

So, what you are saying is, when testing a brand-new BS-VI vehicle running on BS-IV fuel for certification purposes, there may be a slight but acceptable discrepancy in the PM / NOx / PAH, and that is fine; the long-term implications in terms of rising tailpipe pollutant levels don't matter, and we as owners / users / breathers (of such pollutants) should be happy about it? - because the government labelled my car as BS-VI? :Frustrati

Edit: For those not already in the know about the technical differences between BS-IV and BS-VI, it might be worth your while to read this post.

@SS-Traveller; The main advantage is to make sure that the engine is still current after 1 April. If it is discontinued then maintenance can become an issue after 1 April.

So I will either wait out, or at least make sure the engine will be there.

I think BS6 will happen and the upgraded fuel will be available by 01.01.2020.

Alternatively, EVs are being given a BIG PUSH by the Ministry to the auto industry

So do we... hopefully. But somehow, I don't believe a pan-India rollout of BS-VI fuels will happen so quickly.
The operative word is PUSH. Pushed away. Read the news. Pushed beyond affordability - read this.

Here is whats going to happen. With our traffic and poor qualify fuel, DPF clogging will be a popular issue.
So people will buy the car, and do DPF "DELETE".

Pollution check centers will put a pipe in exhaust, and then a dot matrix printer will make lot of noise and print some garbage, and life will go on.

In my last “PUC” test, that chap was telling me that the test was going online in couple of months, here in kerala, which would mean that, the check would be done by some govt. computer, and that if one fails, one fails, no adjustment can be done. I am not aware if the same has been implemented. Wonder if same has been implemented in other states.

lol:
Indeed, it ought to become more common than an EGR delete!
Online PUC testing is the buzzword in Delhi. And no, the check is not done by some government computer, it's the machine at the testing centre's end that sends the data to a 'govt. computer' - the system then allows the testing centre to print out the certificate (or not). So the data input will be based on what the testing centre does, and as tsk1979 rightly pointed out...
They'll also take a picture of the pipe in the exhaust just to make the test 'kosher' - as they do even now.

But in my last test (the same centre which I am doing annual testing for at least past 5 years) don't have an option to edit or input manual values. I had mentioned my experience here https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/stree...ml#post4560940

The centre guy informed me that the system was updated recently and many vehicles had already failed the PUC test.

Some years back there was an incident like the Photo was taken of Vehicle A and the sensor was inserted into a relatively new Vehicle B's exhaust :uncontrol

Cheers!

We knew the Mahindra story long ago. They bought Reva with an intention to transfer technology and eventually close it.

The second article is by a person connected with MSIL and hence the statement about affordability. MSIL does not have the future tech on BS6 engines and are staring at a wall. Expect big discounts towards the EOY for the existing models.

Another POV, they could also push the govt to postpone the BS6 implementation!!

Having known senior management in the industry, some of them are very optimistic about the government luring technology from elsewhere in the world to make it happen.

AFAIK, India and China are competing in this space as well.

As far as I'm concerned, personally, I will miss the IC engines!! :confused:

...and since then the government has taken a U-turn on its earlier EV policy & NEMMP, and we don't have much demand for EVs as things stand now.
Going by the introduction of BS-VI compliant vehicles like the Baleno and Alto, it certainly doesn't look that way.
...which they well might, as I mentioned in the beginning...
-----------------------------------
What kind of technology?
Which space? The EV space?
Won't happen in my lifetime, I'm quite sure.

Today I saw a news item about EVs in UP. In major cities there are plans to set up charging stations on the model of Fuel Pumps. So the state is getting serious.

First of all thanks to SS-Traveller for this informative & eyeopening thread. According to my knowledge most refineries won't be able to produce BS-VI fuels by the 2020 deadline, it seems up-gradation of refineries is a time consuming & costly process.

So we might end up having to run BS-VI complaint engines on BS-IV fuel for some time (till BS-VI fuel becomes available pan India). I am pretty certain that to be BS-VI complaint, a BS-VI engine would need to run on BS-VI fuel, otherwise it won't be able to fully meet BS-VI norms. The other problem I see is the complicated emission system of BS-VI engines (diesels especially) might be damaged (in the long run) due to running on BS-IV fuel.

Not only Volvo & Diamler, it seems even TATA has started using SCR in their commercial vehicles. Some photos from my side: