[pawan_pullarwar]

Hello everyone,

I bought a 2011 BMW 520d, 78,000 KMS driven, with all the service done at BMW service station only. Recently around one month back, the car was given for the routine service at BMW. They serviced and also replaced some axle parts and checked the EGR under recall from BMW.

4 days back when I was driving in the city, I heard a sound like a broken belt is hitting some parts in the engine. So after 100-200 meters, I parked at the side and checked if any engine light or any error was showing on the console, but nothing was there. Then I switched off the engine and checked for any oil leak or any broken parts in the engine bay and under-body. But nothing was found.

After that, I tried to start the car again, but the car was not starting and behaving like the battery is down/drained.

I called for a BMW flat-bed and sent the car to the service station. They inspected the car and didn't find anything. Now they are saying that engine head needs to be opened to find out the issue and are asking to pay 23k labour, this charge is only for removing and inspecting the cylinder head.

I have written mails to BMW and requested them as they have not informed of any issue with the car when it was serviced recently and parts were replaced under recall. So why should I pay 23k to identify the issue?

I feel that BMW should not ask to pay for the labour and should charge only for the parts, considering all the service is done at BMW. It was also recently serviced at BMW and no issues were reported.

Please suggest, should I pay the 23k for inspection or request BMW to waver the labour charges. Or should I go to any other good local mechanic.

Also please suggest a good local service station in Pune.

EDIT: The charge is only for opening the head, if we opt not to work and reinstall the head, another 23k needs to be paid.

[pramodkumar]

You need to find out what are they looking to find under the head, bent valves? Broken cams?

Questions to you, is the engine turning? when you tried to start the car, was it not cranking or was the battery dead?

This kind of issue happens in N47 engines, they are known to have premature timing chain failures. if that's the case, you are looking at a new engine and it wont stop at just replacing the things in the head.it being an interference engine will takeout even the pistons, connecting rods and everything connected to it.

you need to ask them if the engine is turning. If yes, find out why its not cranking. Any error messages in their scanner? how is the charging circuit? How is the alternator? There are many possibilities, I don't understand their logic of digging inside the head directly.

ask them to drain the oil and check for metal shavings in the oil. if you just heard noise and there was no loss of power its unlikely that the engine is toast.

Pramod

[Jaggu]

Like Pramod mentioned, you need to prod further. Be stern.

I just can't understand why a company would ask money to diagnose what is wrong? I can understand if the customer doesn't want to go with the diagnosis and take the car out, then ask the customer to pay for it. I strongly suspect they know what the issue is, and just want to ensure money is paid ahead.

[pawan_pullarwar]

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

You need to find out what are they looking to find under the head, bent valves? Broken cams?

Questions to you, is the engine turning? when you tried to start the car, was it not cranking or was the battery dead?

No, the engine was not turning. Battery is ok, but when giving starter, it felt like engine not able to rotate.

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

This kind of issue happens in N47 engines, they are known to have premature timing chain failures. if that's the case, you are looking at a new engine and it wont stop at just replacing the things in the head.it being an interference engine will takeout even the pistons, connecting rods and everything connected to it.

I thought timing belt failure can be recognize without opening the engine head.

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

you need to ask them if the engine is turning. If yes, find out why its not cranking. Any error messages in their scanner? how is the charging circuit? How is the alternator? There are many possibilities, I don't understand their logic of digging inside the head directly.

ask them to drain the oil and check for metal shavings in the oil. if you just heard noise and there was no loss of power its unlikely that the engine is toast.

Pramod

Thanks, will ask them to check.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Like Pramod mentioned, you need to prod further. Be stern.

I just can't understand why a company would ask money to diagnose what is wrong? I can understand if the customer doesn't want to go with the diagnosis and take the car out, then ask the customer to pay for it. I strongly suspect they know what the issue is, and just want to ensure money is paid ahead.

I know a garage, who is good in fixing these cars. I guess, I will shift my car from BMW to local garage.

[Rshrey22]

Sometimes it feels like the engine is not turning but actually it's the ac compressor. It might be possible that your ac compressor is seized which is preventing the starter from turning the engine. Try removing the compressor belt and then starting the car.

[GTO]

Damn, no worse news than having an out-of-warranty German luxury car break down. The F10 has a timing chain which is a lot more robust than a rubber belt. I hope it hasn't broken or something. Please do keep this thread updated.

If I were you, I'd move the car out to an independent workshop. Look up recommendations in the Team-BHP directory.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

I just can't understand why a company would ask money to diagnose what is wrong?

BMW + Mercedes + Audi owners are all part of a rip-off club. They charge in Bombay too. However, from their POV, it's for the labour effort / time spent. If one decides to eventually do the work from them, then this charge disappears. I guess a lot of German car owners move their cars out of the authorised workshop if presented with a hefty estimate (I myself have with the C220).

[ajmat]

Sounds like a timing chain failure and consequential damage. The latter end of the period for faulty timing chains was 2011.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006...gine-2007-2009.

I don't know much about the engine physically and it might sound easier said than done but it might be easier to remove the radiator, open the timing chain cover and check.

[d3mon]

N47 engines up to 2011 had a faulty timing chain. If that's what happened to your engine, push for a goodwill repair from BMW by showing them the other cases of premature failure around the world. It was so common that even wikipedia has an entry on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N4...chain_problems

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by GTO

If I were you, I'd move the car out to an independent workshop. Look up recommendations in the Team-BHP directory.

While i am not entirely certain, i get the feeling Pawan's BMW is Germany based.

[sukiwa]

Originally Posted by benbsb29

i get the feeling Pawan's BMW is Germany based.

Nope Ben, Pawan is looking for alternate service station in Pune. And paying 23k Euros in Germany for inspection would be too much, quite sure it's 23k INR.

Also please suggest a good local service station in Pune.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar

Hello everyone,

The charge is only for opening the head, if we opt not to work and reinstall the head, another 23k needs to be paid.

I think you must have misunderstood. The dealership will charge you 23 K for diagnostics should you not get the car repaired. If that's not the case, then you must ask them to give you a Fixed amount for diagnosis, and if you find the estimate in your budget, you will get it repaired else to take the other opinion. Simultaneously, drop an Email to Contact.india@bmw.in with VIN details and how your car was always serviced. They usually are prompt and will surely get you some significant discounts should you choose to go ahead with the repairs at Dealership.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

I just can't understand why a company would ask money to diagnose what is wrong? I can understand if the customer doesn't want to go with the diagnosis and take the car out, then ask the customer to pay for it.

Correct, but it happens, I guess in many cases. Like, recently, one of our Gas burners developed a fault and service centre demanded Rs 750 to send someone at home to inspect. I had to pay labour and parts charges over and above. But in Automotive parlance, the dealership does charge Diagnostics if repairs are not carried.

[pawan_pullarwar]

Originally Posted by d3mon

N47 engines up to 2011 had a faulty timing chain. If that's what happened to your engine, push for a goodwill repair from BMW by showing them the other cases of premature failure around the world. It was so common that even wikipedia has an entry on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N4...chain_problems

The engine is N47 CKD, thanks for pointing wikipedia link. I tweeted them this link and requested them to repair it as a goodwill. As mentioned in this link about rattling noise, the noise was there in my car. I had mentioned twice to service adviser about minor rattling noise, when engine is cold. Service adviser told us that nothing to worry about the noise, there is one bearing which is slightly loose and nothing will happen. That noise used to go away in just a minute or two, so even I ignored that noise.

[d3mon]

Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar

The engine is N47 CKD, thanks for pointing wikipedia link. I twitted them this link and requesting them to repair it as a goodwill. As mentioned in this link about rattling noise, the noise was there in my car. I had mentioned twice to service adviser about minor rattling noise, when engine is cold. Service adviser told us that nothing to worry about the noise, there is one bearing which is slightly loose and nothing will happen. That noise used to go away in just a minute or two, so even I ignored that noise.

If you told your SA and he ignored it, you have a very strong case for negligence in maintenance from the dealer. Please pull up the SA, workshop manager and tell them to repair under goodwill warranty.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar

I had mentioned twice to service adviser about minor rattling noise, when engine is cold. Service adviser told us that nothing to worry about the noise, there is one bearing which is slightly loose and nothing will happen. That noise used to go away in just a minute or two, so even I ignored that noise.

Did you list this issue in writing as something to be attended to during the service check-in?

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by sukiwa

Nope Ben, Pawan is looking for alternate service station in Pune. And paying 23k Euros in Germany for inspection would be too much, quite sure it's 23k INR.

Sorry. I missed that. Just went by the BMW and the location on his profile.