[Guneet]

Hi Rocketscience. You may take an opinion from cherish honda. Mr Amit walia is fairly honest guy and heads that dealership. Give him my reference if needed. I'm Dr Gogia and I know him since his Infinity Honda days. I'm sure he'll be able to take you out of this fix. I can share his number if u want. He's not in gurgaon everyday so it's better to call him and then go.

[OSH]

While you are at the service center, you should visually compare your oil sump with that of another iDtec to be sure that your sump is indeed dented/damaged. The fact that the ASC and your FNG were both not keen on changing the sump makes me feel that the sump is not the issue at all. BTW, did you tell them about the impact to the sump or did they find it out on their own ?

Another point to consider, the oily residue found by the ASC and you during the brakes overhaul could be due to the oil-filter getting damaged and covering the lower parts of the engine in oil. No harm in checking the drain bolt also, while you are at it. Do post more pictures of the underside if possible.

[Rocketscience]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

In all honesty, taking out an engine to find a (oil?) leak seems a bit of extreme measure to me. Lets first try and figure out whether it is oil, soot or something else. That might already point you in the direction where to look.

Jeroen

So i checked it again today, that wire thing, turned out to be a twig, so got rid of that. That black sludge like thing seems to be oil to me, because when i rubbed my finger over it to check, there was a wet, sticky layer underneath, could be oil, anyways when i take this to Honda in a day or two i will investigate if the leak is actually from this portion and perhaps no damage underneath, i will not make the mistake of telling them anything and will just point them towards the head leak and tell them that i notice oil residue on the ground, will see what they find out.
I'am attaching the pictures below this post.

Originally Posted by Guneet

Hi Rocketscience. You may take an opinion from cherish honda. Mr Amit walia is fairly honest guy and heads that dealership. Give him my reference if needed. I'm Dr Gogia and I know him since his Infinity Honda days. I'm sure he'll be able to take you out of this fix. I can share his number if u want. He's not in gurgaon everyday so it's better to call him and then go.

Thanks a lot for this gesture, please PM me his number or maybe post it here in case any other Bhpian requires it in the future.

Originally Posted by OSH

While you are at the service center, you should visually compare your oil sump with that of another iDtec to be sure that your sump is indeed dented/damaged. The fact that the ASC and your FNG were both not keen on changing the sump makes me feel that the sump is not the issue at all. BTW, did you tell them about the impact to the sump or did they find it out on their own ?

Another point to consider, the oily residue found by the ASC and you during the brakes overhaul could be due to the oil-filter getting damaged and covering the lower parts of the engine in oil. No harm in checking the drain bolt also, while you are at it. Do post more pictures of the underside if possible.

This will be such a relief if it is related to that, anyways i'll just show them the head portion let them figure out and then demand proper explanation for the leak.
There apparently are 3 possibilities now.
• There is a leak in the head, maybe unrelated to the incident and that oil is dipping below and there was no damage from the impact.
• The leak is originating from the points you mentioned, oil filter mount or drain plug, should be an easy fix.
• There is a damage somewhere in the sump or it has miss aligned causing the leak below and the head leak is an unrelated and separate case.

[sagarpadaki]

I may be going against the tide here, i would suggest you get the engine bay cleaned with diesel at a neighborhood washing center to remove all the signs of oil caked on. Then you can top up the oil to the max level on dip stick and drive for a week checking the status daily. You are not hearing any funny noises from the engine. The engine sounds healthy and the drive-ability is not affected. Maybe that oil residue that you see could be because of the spillage done by Honda during service by accident and over time it has spread all over the area making it look like a serious issue.

[Rocketscience]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

I may be going against the tide here, i would suggest you get the engine bay cleaned with diesel at a neighborhood washing center to remove all the signs of oil caked on. Then you can top up the oil to the max level on dip stick and drive for a week checking the status daily. You are not hearing any funny noises from the engine. The engine sounds healthy and the drive-ability is not affected. Maybe that oil residue that you see could be because of the spillage done by Honda during service by accident and over time it has spread all over the area making it look like a serious issue.

That would have been great, but sadly there is loss of oil and it has gone down quite substantially as per the dipstick, you are right about any other issues though, the engine touchwood is completely fine to drive otherwise and this leak thankfully has been a very slow one so the damage should have been nothing to the engine itself other than running on less oil, (It is still comfortably above the minimum and i have strictly not let anyone touch the car after i found out about the leak)

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by Rocketscience

That would have been great, but sadly there is loss of oil and it has gone down quite substantially as per the dipstick, you are right about any other issues though, the engine touchwood is completely fine to drive otherwise and this leak thankfully has been a very slow one so the damage should have been nothing to the engine itself other than running on less oil, (It is still comfortably above the minimum and i have strictly not let anyone touch the car after i found out about the leak)

Maybe HASS spilled some oil that was to be put into your engine onto the sides and that is what caused the low oil level...And they did not bother replenishing the lost oil. Just a thought, since you have not checked the oil level after the service.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Maybe HASS spilled some oil that was to be put into your engine onto the sides and that is what caused the low oil level...And they did not bother replenishing the lost oil. Just a thought, since you have not checked the oil level after the service.

That is a big maybe and he says there is progressive loss of oil right so there’s a leak?

That impact might have cracked the oil sump

[One:1]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

I may be going against the tide here, i would suggest you get the engine bay cleaned with diesel at a neighborhood washing center to remove all the signs of oil caked on.

..........

over time it has spread all over the area making it look like a serious issue.

I agree with your thought process. Rocketscience, try an easier and more pocket friendly solution, I used to do this to pinpoint oil leaks. Grab an old cloth, wipe down as much gunk as possible and accessible. Idle the engine till it gets upto temp, maybe go for a short spin. Let it cool. inspect the region for fresh oil by running your fingers along that region.

I don't know why but I have a feeling that this may have something to do with the turbo plumbing or the turbo itself (gaskets and tolerances). A friend of mine needed a new turbo in less than 45,000kms in his iDTEC

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by hserus

That is a big maybe and he says there is progressive loss of oil right so there’s a leak?

That impact might have cracked the oil sump

Well , if the oil leak was progressive there would have been some oil dripped onto the floor where the car is parked. The OP has not observed any such spots. Also if the oil leak is progressive then there would be a fresh coat of oil on top grime/muck. That is also not seen from the pics. Hence my hypothesis.

Further, i am asking the oil to be topped up before the car is observed for a week. I am not telling to run it with low oil level.

[Jeroen]

I was looking at these images once again. It is quite remarkable where the oil deposits are. Nothing on the lugs on the alternator!

Has the alternator been removed/re-installed recently. If so, it looks as if they cleaned it, but not the bit on the engine block where it bolts on.

Jeroen

[Rocketscience]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Maybe HASS spilled some oil that was to be put into your engine onto the sides and that is what caused the low oil level...And they did not bother replenishing the lost oil. Just a thought, since you have not checked the oil level after the service.

The oil loss is substantial and this hypothesis seems very optimistic but highly unlikely, since the oil capacity is 4.2 litres and the dip stick level is around 40%, i cannot justify the 2+ litres of oil spillage around the engine compartment.

Originally Posted by hserus

That is a big maybe and he says there is progressive loss of oil right so there’s a leak?

That impact might have cracked the oil sump

The mystery should anyways be decoded tomorrow, i'am planning to take it to Honda and will post whatever happens.
I hope the sump is intact and it actually turns out to be something small.

Originally Posted by One:1

I agree with your thought process. Rocketscience, try an easier and more pocket friendly solution, I used to do this to pinpoint oil leaks. Grab an old cloth, wipe down as much gunk as possible and accessible. Idle the engine till it gets upto temp, maybe go for a short spin. Let it cool. inspect the region for fresh oil by running your fingers along that region.

I don't know why but I have a feeling that this may have something to do with the turbo plumbing or the turbo itself (gaskets and tolerances). A friend of mine needed a new turbo in less than 45,000kms in his iDTEC

Actually majority of the leak noticed is below the engine bay which is not accessible without a ramp/lift, i'am at the mercy of the service center guys to figure this out, i don't think the turbo is the cause here as there has been no difference in drivability whatsoever, i do tend to pick out even minor variances in driving or noise characteristics changes in my car and so far there have been zero differences in any aspect from the engine. Infact, i changed the tyres recently and there is an astonishing change in the peppiness and low end performance, it has improved by no less than 25-30% (i was running 205 50 r16, switched back to 175 r15 on stock rims), i was on cloud 9 after tyre change and then this happened.

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Well , if the oil leak was progressive there would have been some oil dripped onto the floor where the car is parked. The OP has not observed any such spots. Also if the oil leak is progressive then there would be a fresh coat of oil on top grime/muck. That is also not seen from the pics. Hence my hypothesis.

Further, i am asking the oil to be topped up before the car is observed for a week. I am not telling to run it with low oil level.

There is no oil observed on the floor but i did notice the head portion muck to get thicker over time, the car has not run since i posted the pictures so can't be too sure about that either.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I was looking at these images once again. It is quite remarkable where the oil deposits are. Nothing on the lugs on the alternator!

Has the alternator been removed/re-installed recently. If so, it looks as if they cleaned it, but not the bit on the engine block where it bolts on.

Jeroen

No sir, there has never been any sort of mechanical work done in the engine apart from regular maintainance and a relatively recent battery change.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by Rocketscience

The oil loss is substantial and this hypothesis seems very optimistic but highly unlikely, since the oil capacity is 4.2 litres and the dip stick level is around 40%, i cannot justify the 2+ litres of oil spillage around the engine compartment.

This really is intriguing. So as much as 60% of oil has been lost - and not a drop has dripped at the parking spot! That means all of it is being just splattered around in the engine bay or under the car only when the car is running on a road. If that indeed is happening, then I guess sump cracks can be ruled out pretty much. It seems then it is being leaked from top half of the engine under temperature & pressure. Seals are leaking somewhere under the load perhaps. Really looking forward to what they find tomorrow. Will be a tricky one to find for them too.

EDIT-
I looked around on the web a bit. Turns out oil leak around and behind the alternator is a very commonly seen issue on the 1.6 iDTec Earth Dreams in global markets. The 1.5 version we have here is not much different from that sibling in design I think.

Apparently its a faulty O ring in the oil-cooler plumbing that is leaking this oil. Which concurs with my guess above that the oil is only being leaked with engine and car running. I suggest if the HASC don't check this - insist on this being investigated. They'd be trigger happy to replace other costly items that are easy to reach. Mostly to reach this part - it seems quite a few bits around the engine would have to be removed first including the alternator.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by Rocketscience

The oil loss is substantial and this hypothesis seems very optimistic but highly unlikely, since the oil capacity is 4.2 litres and the dip stick level is around 40%, i cannot justify the 2+ litres of oil spillage around the engine compartment.

The dipstick does not reflect the oil level from zero to max. The min mark on the dipstick corresponds to the minimum oil level with which the engine will run and performance/safety is not affected. Oil at min mark in dipstick does not mean engine has no oil in it.

For ex. If the oil capacity if 5 liters, the dipstick min mark could be at 4 liter capacity. On filling 1 liter oil, the dipstick would register oil at max level.

Similarly , in your case , with the dip stick at 40% mark, it would not take more than 1 liter of oil to bring the level to max mark on the dipstick.

[Rocketscience]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

This really is intriguing. So as much as 60% of oil has been lost - and not a drop has dripped at the parking spot! That means all of it is being just splattered around in the engine bay or under the car only when the car is running on a road. If that indeed is happening, then I guess sump cracks can be ruled out pretty much. It seems then it is being leaked from top half of the engine under temperature & pressure. Seals are leaking somewhere under the load perhaps. Really looking forward to what they find tomorrow. Will be a tricky one to find for them too.

EDIT-
I looked around on the web a bit. Turns out oil leak around and behind the alternator is a very commonly seen issue on the 1.6 iDTec Earth Dreams in global markets. The 1.5 version we have here is not much different from that sibling in design I think.

Apparently its a faulty O ring in the oil-cooler plumbing that is leaking this oil. Which concurs with my guess above that the oil is only being leaked with engine and car running. I suggest if the HASC don't check this - insist on this being investigated. They'd be trigger happy to replace other costly items that are easy to reach. Mostly to reach this part - it seems quite a few bits around the engine would have to be removed first including the alternator.

That is an important information, i think i should just concentrate on the leak behind the alternator/near the head now and that must be the oil that is found around the sump, fixing that should potentially resolve the issue, you are right about this engine being related to the 1.6 iDTEC in the Civic. This is infact the same engine with a smaller stroke, single geometry turbo and some related changes. This also means that i would not be the only one with this issue and maybe the guys at Honda know exactly how to fix this.

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

The dipstick does not reflect the oil level from zero to max. The min mark on the dipstick corresponds to the minimum oil level with which the engine will run and performance/safety is not affected. Oil at min mark in dipstick does not mean engine has no oil in it.

For ex. If the oil capacity if 5 liters, the dipstick min mark could be at 4 liter capacity. On filling 1 liter oil, the dipstick would register oil at max level.

Similarly , in your case , with the dip stick at 40% mark, it would not take more than 1 liter of oil to bring the level to max mark on the dipstick.

This does make complete sense but even if we start calculating from the bottom and the max level is 100% and the bottom is ofcourse 0% then the dipstick stands above the 50% mark. It is not dangerously low though hence i'am not concerned about any damage to the engine. Lets hope to find out the exact cause of the leak now.

[Rocketscience]

Update

So, i took the car to Cherish Honda today, their diagnosis is that the engine will have to go down, the leakage is from somewhere in the back of the engine, around the crank case, they will have to open almost half of the engine and re seal it, they have ruled out anything wrong with the head, they say the belt might have carried the oil from below/behind, it must be a moisture or something while running.
The whole process will take 2 days.
I'am attaching the pictures below, i had to rush to work today so i will hand over the car to them on Monday, lets hope the issue gets fixed, they don't think anything is damaged and no part needs replacement.