[RoadMonkey]

There's a similar thread, I know, titled "Pain in left leg while driving. Is the AT responsible?" But it goes in a completely different direction. The discussion there revolves around the transmission, but coincidentally most of the complaints are from people who drive automatic low slung cars, where seating is not upright.

I drive a Baleno MT and I've been experiencing joint stiffness, slight pain at times in the knee, which all I've addressed after talking to multiple orthopedic surgeons and doctors. Cycling, stretching, omega-3 supplements have helped considerably. I have also started wearing a knee support for long drives and that's also helped ease things. But now, I've a new problem. Pain the lower back/tail bone.

My father owns a Ritz MT, I had to get it serviced, repaired and all that so we switched cars and I noticed that all my discomfort, pain, it's gone! The clutch of this one is more than twice as hard as Baleno's, yet even without the knee cap, I feel absolutely zero discomfort in the leg and my back pain's recessing.

So, after this observation, in order to make sure it wasn't just me, I asked a friend who drives an old Innova and also has a Ciaz in the family. He seconded my observation, he experiences discomfort in the left leg whenever he drives Ciaz or his brother's Baleno, but none when he drives his Innova diesel (the clutch is like a rock). I went a bit further, my father knows a couple of people who drive Honda City and Ciaz. The former has an uneven walk and constant pain in his left leg and back, the latter permanently wears a "back support belt". Now, my circle of people who drive low slung cars is limited, most of them have cars with upright seating.

I want to ask fellow BHPians if they've observed/experienced something similar or maybe the problem is really with excessive seating and I'm analysing it incorrectly? I have been contemplating getting an automatic to ease my discomfort, but maybe that's not necessary. Especially given the other thread. I should mention that I'm in mid-20s and it's definitely not age related. I've also tried multiple driving seat adjustments/setups, I usually set it to what's recommended as the ideal setup.

[saisailendra]

It might be due to the seating position and driving style as well. There can be various factors causing the pain.

I've driven Vento, Jetta and the old (2005)Honda City for a reasonable while and never had specific knee stiffness or joint pain. Lower back hurts sometimes if I don't get adjusted to the seat angle though. I'm in my mid 20s too.

Also placing the foot on the clutch for a long time will have an effect on the knee. I usually keep my foot flat on the floor after taking my foot off the clutch pedal.

Seat height with respect to your own height also plays an important role in the pressure that's put on the knee.

And in long drives, you shouldn't be having as much problem as in the City as clutch usage will be relatively low.

Along with those supplements, you also can take chondrotin sulphate supplements. That will help replenish the fluid in the joints, providing lubrication and decreasing pain.

[RoadMonkey]

Originally Posted by saisailendra

Also placing the foot on the clutch for a long time will have an effect on the knee. I usually keep my foot flat on the floor after taking my foot off the clutch pedal.

I try to keep my foot moving, I used to keep it on the dead pedal. Didn't help much really.

Seat height with respect to your own height also plays an important role in the pressure that's put on the knee.

Yes, I thought of that, but that's what I'm getting at in the thread. A more upright seating position helps. I've maxed out Baleno's seat height but that seems too high, I'm 5'10.

And in long drives, you shouldn't be having as much problem as in the City as clutch usage will be relatively low.

Yes, my driving is mixed. I should've mentioned that I drive quite a bit. My running for the last 3 years is around 40k KMs.

Along with those supplements, you also can take chondrotin sulphate supplements. That will help replenish the fluid in the joints, providing lubrication and decreasing pain.

That's what I was prescribed omega-3 for by my doctor. I'll consult with him post covid about that too, thanks!

[RedTerrano]

Originally Posted by RoadMonkey

I want to ask fellow BHPians if they've observed/experienced something similar or maybe the problem is really with excessive seating and I'm analysing it incorrectly? I have been contemplating getting an automatic to ease my discomfort, but maybe that's not necessary.

Been there, suffered that.
My 110PS Terrano clutch is heavy and I have observed knee stiffness or even pain especially while crawling an extended period of time in bumper to bumper traffic. AT will definitely take the clutch out of the picture.

In my experience, sitting position definitely plays a major part. Some years back I started suffering from strange neck pain and had to consult a doctor. He showed me lot of charts which had pics of spine positions and the stress caused on the vertebrae due to incorrect posture. My problem was incorrect seat height in front of the computer for extended periods. He pointed out, same logic applies to car seats as well.
After correcting my posture, my neck pain magically vanished.
I would suggest, you tweak your car seat to get the most comfortable position.

[ecenandu]

The seating position could also be a contributing factor to the discomfort.

Have a look at the video, backed by research on the optimal driving position.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGfmPkMtlWY

[Roy.S]

I think the budget grade seats in Marutis are to blame. My '99 Zen was fairly adequate in terms of seating comfort but I could never really get comfortable in my later marutis. I don't face this issue in my i20.
One of the reasons I backed out of a really good deal on the Baleno RS earlier this year was the squishy, unsupportive seat.

[RoadMonkey]

Originally Posted by ecenandu

The seating position could also be a contributing factor to the discomfort.

Have a look at the video, backed by research on the optimal driving position.

As I have stated in my post, sir, I have already tried adjusting my seat position according to what's scientifically recommended, and have even tried to tweak it in every possible way to lessen my inconvenience, but it did not help.

[Ford5]

I think it's more a seat contouring factor? Driving the new Baleno gives me lower right back pain within 45 minutes, while the Swift (latest) is so well contoured IMO, I don't get any tingling/pain/sensation even though it doesn't have lumbar support.

[tilt]

I believe I am in the opposite camp here. I have been having acute and chronic back problems since 1990, both upper back/neck and lower back/tailbone etc.

In my case I am most comfortable and least affected by pain when I am in a low-slung car where my legs are almost straight out in front of me rather than being bent at the knees and feet flat on the floor.

In fact I am the most comfortable in a go-kart, so I always look for cars (and adjust my seating position) to be as close to a go-kart as possible.

My seat is always at the lowest position it would go to and the back is slightly reclined, which means you might only see my head above the window-line and nothing else. Also, the front of the seat is raised higher than the back of the seat to provide more under-thigh support, so that it is not my lower-back that is supporting my legs.

Cars that have a higher and more conventional seating position start my pain within about 20-30 minutes of sitting in them.

I have observed that having proper adjustible lumbar-support in the seat & proper and sufficient under-thigh support helps a lot. This along with the low seat with legs out in front of me helps me wedge my tailbone area tight into the place where the back of the seat meets the bum-portion of the seat; and that is what makes it pain-free for me to drive hours at a stretch.

I joke that I do not shop for a car, I shop for a seat and buy whatever car comes around that seat.

BTW, I am 58 years old and am 5'8" tall, just for reference.

Cheers

[VRJ]

Voted YES.

I’m in my mid twenties as well and I feel you brother. I’ve been in your shoes 4 years back. Hyundai Verna was my daily driver from when I turned 18 until I was 21. Oh god, that car used to give me horrible lower back pain. I used to always wonder, I’m 18 and I have back pain problems . My father did get operated once due to a spinal cord issue and I used to think, did I inherit this and am I going to end up at a hospital this young? I also doubted this theory as I never had any problem while driving for 4 hours straight in our Toyota Innova. We drive to our hometown every fortnight to meet my grandparents and this is a four hours drive. We always took the Innova on our highway trips and I never experienced any back pain. I was 6 feet when I was 18, 6’2 now. Few months back, I drove 400km on our Fortuner MT without a break and I had no pain at all. Coming to the Verna, city drives were alright, anything above 40 minutes and I used to suffer from lower back pain. MY father kept telling me sedans are not meant for 6 footers as he had back pain problems when he had the first gen Verna back in 2007 and he sold it to get the Innova and never had any problems (don’t question me on this, I don’t have a scientific explanation, it’s just his experience which turned out to be true in my case).

One fine day, my father took me to his orthopaedic friend (who performed the surgery on him) and the conversation went like this:

Me: I have lower back pain and I can’t bear it.
Dr: You’re too young to have such a pain. Are you lying to skip college? Because I’ll have to give you injections to treat your pain (Dr was a family friend and he knows I hate needles).
Me: I’m serious and I’ll take the injections.

Dr checks my lower back,

Dr: If your mother asks you to get milk or salt or whatever from the grocery store close to your house, how do you go?
Me: Obviously in my car.
Dr: How do you meet friends in your locality?
Me: I drive to my friends house
Dr: Looks at my dad and tells him ‘sell the damn car and buy him a cycle’ and he’ll be alright.
Me:
Dr: Exercise more, don’t sit for long periods, even when you sit, always sit straight and on your butt. These days everyone is leaning and sitting on their lower backs. That’ll lead to horrible consequences in the long run. Have an active lifestyle. Then he begins to rant how stupid millennials are for ten minutes.

Soon after this, we sold the car as I moved to Sydney to do my masters. I used to walk an average of 4-5km everyday there. It wasn’t an exercise, but a necessity. Walking to the train station to go to university, walking to my part-time work place everyday (it was 1km away and there was no bus for such a short trip) or to get groceries. I used to work part-time as a cook at this burger joint, so I used to stand for 8-9 hours during my shift. I had a very active lifestyle and since I moved to Sydney, I never had any lower back pain. Rented out a Camry and drove to the 12 Apostles and never had any problem. I’m not sure how my back pain just vanished. I didn’t take any medication. Maybe it was because of me walking a lot and not driving at all (I didn’t own a car there). Maybe it was because of my very active lifestyle.

Incidentally, a Baleno MT is my daily drive at the moment. 60k kms done and it is still running on the stock clutch. It’s surprisingly soft for its age. It has average under thigh support and zero lumbar support. However, I don’t drive much in Vizag as my workplace is one km away with no traffic and shopping and stuff is also 1-2 kms away. Only time I had slight back pain with this car was when I was driving from Hyderabad to Vizag (700km) and I took only one break for lunch. When I was working in Hyderabad, I used to get slight left knee pain, but this was because of the horrible traffic I used to drive in everyday for two hours. An AT would probably solve this issue.

To conclude, based on my limited experience with sedans, they have lower thigh support when compared with SUV’s. It’s a bit hard to stretch your legs in a sedan too. When adjusting your seat, always try to have maximum under thing support. Unfortunately there are very few mass market cars in India that have lumbar support adjustment. The other day I test drove a civic for a friend and the front seats have the worst under thigh support. I felt like I was sitting on the floor. I’m actually even apprehensive to consider a sedan for my next car. I’m sure there are BHP’ians who are 6 footers and never had a problem with sedans. I guess the experience is different for different people.

In your case, since changing cars has solved your problem, maybe make the change permanent?

Cheers!

[RoadMonkey]

Originally Posted by VRJ

In your case, since changing cars has solved your problem, maybe make the change permanent?

Cheers!

We are planning a car-change regardless of this, the Baleno will soon be sold. I started this discussion so that I can make a more informed decision on the new purchase. Should it be a Tiago/Tigor AMT or, say, Brezza MT. I'm confused about which one to go for as many have complained of pain and discomfort in the AT thread. If it's a low slung thing, the Tata cars with AMT won't help much, but a car with more upright seating will regardess of the transmission. But I can't risk dropping 10 Big ones on a car and then discovering that I still have trouble with the MT and should've gone for something without a clutch.

[Tgo]

I do suffer from lower back pain and stiffness in the left leg. It has started after I began owning a car.

It is difficult for me to attribute it to car ownership and long drives alone because I was injured while playing Basketball around the same time. The tests show that there is a bulge in the disk in my L5-C1 and that the spine curvature is less than ideal. Both these things could be there from before the injury/car ownership and could also be a result of bad posture. That being said, the pain is not severe. I just am conscious of some discomfort in the affected area. It doesn't hinder my routine or basic movements. I feel much better if I am doing regular exercise and making a conscious effort to arch my back and keeping an upright posture. I have been advised to avoid sports which involve jumping altogether.

It is quite a grey area unless you be proactive about it and get it checked at its onset.

Low slung / higher and upright seating have no difference to the pain. However, I prefer to have the seat squabs support my thighs during long drives. It can be done by raising the seat even in low slung cars.

[IshaanIan]

As for lower back pain, I'd blame the seat contouring. I used to find the Kizashi to be far more comfortable even over extended periods of driving on road trips whereas I cannot bare more than an hour of driving my WagonR with its complete lack of lumbar support. As for your knees I guess under thigh support could play a factor or maybe even how you use the clutch pedal (whether your foot hovers on top of it or whether you keep it to the side when not using the clutch).

[GTO]

I wouldn't say that a low slung car is responsible, as many of us have cruised in low slung cars (Baleno, City etc.) without any back pain at all. That said, a low slung car will definitely *expose* the weaknesses in your back more than a taller car. That's why you were absolutely fine in the Ritz due to its higher, more practical seating position.

It's easier to change a car than your back . So I would recommend:

- First finding out the exact medical problem & solving it.

- Trying to fix your Baleno's seat in the after-market as it's cheaper to get a seat upgrade than a car upgrade. Try to beef up support from an upholstery fellow (very easy), or swap the seat from another car (medium-level difficulty + effort).

- If all else fails, do a lateral upgrade (ARTICLE: The Beauty of Lateral Upgrades (Getting MORE CAR for LESS $$$)) to a taller car so whatever you lose in your Baleno's depreciation, you make up via a lateral upgrade.

[KMT]

Years ago I had a Mazda MX5 and I had to sell it because of this reason. Actually, my chiropractor made me dell it, I got an Auto Jeep Cherokee to replace it.

The Chiropractor advised me that for people with bad lower backs and weak glutes, an SUV stance is ideal.

Apparently, sitting almost flat on the floor for long periods with legs outstretched and regular gear changes is supposed to cause glutes to tighten up that then causes lower back stiffness.

In my opinion, European cars with low seating seem to be better suited to bad backs than Asian cars.

I also suggest looking up low back and glute stretches on youtube.