Missing on Fiat Adventure

tsk1979 · 9th May 2007, 10:52

If your EGR valve is opening before the 1500rpm mark this could be the cause of the problem.
Ideally at 45kmph on a small slope you should be in 4th gear, not 5th. On level ground it is okay.
Is the misfire you feel more like a "clutch judder" or its as if the engine has missed a beat?

gemithomas · 9th May 2007, 11:01

jaggu: i have just completed 4000 KM.

tsk1979: Yes i am normally at 4rth gear when this happens most of the time. Its excactly like the engine has missed a beat. You feel the car jerk (loose all power and gain all power in a split second.)

AS moralfibre has mentioned maybe this is considered "normal" with the Fiat Engine.

I have spoken to a few other and they also mention of such missing. But i just want to know why this happens. I'm sure its some fault somewhere that just needs some attention...wait there dear, i'm coming to get you!!!

tsk1979 · 9th May 2007, 11:06

Ok, time to get it checked. Normally if you shift up too soon, you fill feel a jerk or judder as if the car is stalling. In this case it seems the engine is missing a beat under load.
I think its EGR opening early, get it checked. Its a simple check. Find a good workshop and try to demonstrate the problem to them.

gemithomas · 9th May 2007, 11:11

tsk: i was just wondering. wont such a thing show on the examiner. and also the last time they got my car hooked to the examiner they just switched the key on but did not start the car. Dont they run the examiner on a running engine? Otherwise how can they know when this valve is opening or closing or for that case anything!!!

tsk1979 · 9th May 2007, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemithomas

tsk: i was just wondering. wont such a thing show on the examiner. and also the last time they got my car hooked to the examiner they just switched the key on but did not start the car. Dont they run the examiner on a running engine? Otherwise how can they know when this valve is opening or closing or for that case anything!!!

Huh? Thats funny.
Last time we got a Tata safari hooked to the examiner they started the engine and then entered some code "Test" on the computer. The engine revved through its rev range from idle to 2500rpm multiple number of times, and the reason for the starting problem was also discovered.
I think they should turn on the engine, take it through rev range.
Ideally if EGR valve is opening beforehand, it should show. Another problem is faulty valve which partially opens while indicating to ECU that its shut.

Jaggu · 9th May 2007, 11:30

gemi what i would do.

go to the dealer get the service engineer/manager to sit with you in the car and drive / replicate the scenario.

request them to fix it.

if they cannot, do whatever required to fix an appointment so that the territory engineer for fiat have a look at the same.

you car is brand new and under warranty you have enough weapons to get this fixed.

which dealer are you using? tvs in tvm? one option if you travel to ekm check there coz the service there was rated better by my friends.

gemithomas · 9th May 2007, 12:13

jaggu, i go to tata service centre in trivandrum. These guys are new with the FIATs. With the overwhelmingly great support that i have got for my old UNO from the TVS guys i dont want to go to them that too after they are not authorised. I am a little skeptical in giving them my vehicle without a proper diagnosis. I dont want them to keep my car for a week and get it back to me in the same condition after they have opened up and spoilt whatever thing they could reach out inside.

Must be coz the tvs were too great at their service. I think twice before i give my car to any service person.

Jaggu · 9th May 2007, 12:35

yeah i know tvs was a pain but if you know someone they take good care of you.

so i suggest you follow the same advice and no diagnise will not take more than a day and i suggest you request them to allow you also in while they go about.

chetanhanda · 11th May 2007, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemithomas

It is not anyway related to the amount of fuel. I have checked that. Even when its on a full tank, this thing happens.

ok

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemithomas

Regarding a clogged intake manifold, Dont you think that this would affect the power delivery at all times. Logically i doubt if this would lead to a jerk at a particular rpm.

Plz dont think that an intake manifild can get clogged with dirt in a car which has done 4000 KMs
You know what an intake manifold looks like .. right ?

becoz if you are adding mud with a shovel then you maybe able to clog the manifold.. and if ur intake manifold was clogged dude Im sure you would have noticed the major loss of power ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemithomas

Even a Fuel filter problem should not normally give me such a problem. Isnt it?

Exactly what Im saying ... maybe some clogging in the fuel sytem,injectors etc etc ..inspect the fuel system
and also consider the ignition system/coils etc , this symptom also sounds like an ignition system issue also..
so I suggest you think along lines of fuel and ignition system and not emission control/secondary air etc etc and definately not EGR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemithomas

Will a faulty EGR valve give erratic idling. In that case, my vehicle is very smooth at idle. I'v heard that the EGR comes on at aroung 1500rpm on the Fiat 1.6 engine. But there again my problem is slightly below this rpm. But just thinking. Could it be somehting likethe EGR opens up a bit early. Is there some sensor that is responsible for activating the EGR.

I think its safe to forget the EGR valve...
EGR valve being stuck open will cause heating,knocking and low power throughout...
the symptoms are definately not an EGR valve related...

banny · 14th June 2007, 20:31

By the way, I have a Fiat Adventure 1.9D Diesel and I have been facing a problem, which is similar in nature. Except that the engine is coming to a stop. It has become so erratic that there is no guarantee as to when the vehicle will stop. I was told by the Fiat expert in Pune that this is due to adulterated diesel and I should open the diesel filter and let some diesel flow out. Which I did, but after aggravated problem, I got the fuel tank cleaned, engine decarbed, threw away the diesel (25Lts) changed the diesel filter (getting this delphi filter was a challenge), changed the rpm sensor. everything was fine for a week and again this problem has started re-occurring. This time it has been diagnosed that the ignition sarter could be a problem. I am at a loss to understand as to when this problem will actually get resolved. Anybody in Pune or Mumbai know of a credible mechanic who can actually set this problem right. I love this vehicle for its mileage which is a decent 14KMPL in city conditions. Any inputs that can be provided will be welcome.

Jaggu · 15th June 2007, 10:33

gemi any update on your problem?

gemithomas · 15th June 2007, 11:05

Jaggu, it a long story.

Few weeks earlier i managed to take a day off to experiment on this.

Based on someones suggestion(on this forum) to keep the car stationary and rev slowly and see if the missing happens, i tried doing that. And guess what. i saw that the all the lights dim for a secong once in a while just around the same rpm. So i thought this must be have some connection and thought it should be some electrical problem that is creating this missing.

So at the service centre i found one good chap who sat with me checking out and trying to figure outwhat is happening. We were just about to give up when he was standing outside and he felt hot air blowing on his legs just when the lights dimmed. BINGO!!!!!!! Its the FAN coming ON!!!!!

So That answered why the lights were dimming once a while. He siad that its the same thing. like when we are a low speeds and when the fan comes on, the engine jerks because of that extra load theat kicks in. I'm pretty convinced with the first part of it (lights dimming) but the second part.....?????!!!!!!!!

Anyways thought i would experiment a little more on my own before making them check anything further.

Jaggu · 15th June 2007, 11:08

very good diagnosis, you can report the same to fiat and see if they can do something about this

gemithomas · 15th June 2007, 11:12

jaggu i think this has happend due to their cost cutting effort. They have changed the brands of alternator, starter motor and many more things. This must be causing this problem.

typeOnegative · 15th June 2007, 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemithomas

jaggu i think this has happend due to their cost cutting effort. They have changed the brands of alternator, starter motor and many more things. This must be causing this problem.

Which ones are they using now? Earlier they were using TVS Lucas right?

9th May 2007, 10:52	#16
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	If your EGR valve is opening before the 1500rpm mark this could be the cause of the problem. Ideally at 45kmph on a small slope you should be in 4th gear, not 5th. On level ground it is okay. Is the misfire you feel more like a "clutch judder" or its as if the engine has missed a beat?
	() Thanks

9th May 2007, 11:01	#17
gemithomas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,366 Thanked: 143 Times View My Garage	jaggu: i have just completed 4000 KM. tsk1979: Yes i am normally at 4rth gear when this happens most of the time. Its excactly like the engine has missed a beat. You feel the car jerk (loose all power and gain all power in a split second.) AS moralfibre has mentioned maybe this is considered "normal" with the Fiat Engine. I have spoken to a few other and they also mention of such missing. But i just want to know why this happens. I'm sure its some fault somewhere that just needs some attention...wait there dear, i'm coming to get you!!! Last edited by gemithomas : 9th May 2007 at 11:08.
	() Thanks

9th May 2007, 11:06	#18
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	Ok, time to get it checked. Normally if you shift up too soon, you fill feel a jerk or judder as if the car is stalling. In this case it seems the engine is missing a beat under load. I think its EGR opening early, get it checked. Its a simple check. Find a good workshop and try to demonstrate the problem to them.
	() Thanks

9th May 2007, 11:11	#19
gemithomas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,366 Thanked: 143 Times View My Garage	tsk: i was just wondering. wont such a thing show on the examiner. and also the last time they got my car hooked to the examiner they just switched the key on but did not start the car. Dont they run the examiner on a running engine? Otherwise how can they know when this valve is opening or closing or for that case anything!!!
	() Thanks

9th May 2007, 11:30	#21
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,907 Times	gemi what i would do. go to the dealer get the service engineer/manager to sit with you in the car and drive / replicate the scenario. request them to fix it. if they cannot, do whatever required to fix an appointment so that the territory engineer for fiat have a look at the same. you car is brand new and under warranty you have enough weapons to get this fixed. which dealer are you using? tvs in tvm? one option if you travel to ekm check there coz the service there was rated better by my friends.
	() Thanks

9th May 2007, 12:13	#22
gemithomas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,366 Thanked: 143 Times View My Garage	jaggu, i go to tata service centre in trivandrum. These guys are new with the FIATs. With the overwhelmingly great support that i have got for my old UNO from the TVS guys i dont want to go to them that too after they are not authorised. I am a little skeptical in giving them my vehicle without a proper diagnosis. I dont want them to keep my car for a week and get it back to me in the same condition after they have opened up and spoilt whatever thing they could reach out inside. Must be coz the tvs were too great at their service. I think twice before i give my car to any service person.
	() Thanks

9th May 2007, 12:35	#23
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,907 Times	yeah i know tvs was a pain but if you know someone they take good care of you. so i suggest you follow the same advice and no diagnise will not take more than a day and i suggest you request them to allow you also in while they go about.
	() Thanks

14th June 2007, 20:31	#25
banny Newbie Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 6 Thanked: 0 Times	By the way, I have a Fiat Adventure 1.9D Diesel and I have been facing a problem, which is similar in nature. Except that the engine is coming to a stop. It has become so erratic that there is no guarantee as to when the vehicle will stop. I was told by the Fiat expert in Pune that this is due to adulterated diesel and I should open the diesel filter and let some diesel flow out. Which I did, but after aggravated problem, I got the fuel tank cleaned, engine decarbed, threw away the diesel (25Lts) changed the diesel filter (getting this delphi filter was a challenge), changed the rpm sensor. everything was fine for a week and again this problem has started re-occurring. This time it has been diagnosed that the ignition sarter could be a problem. I am at a loss to understand as to when this problem will actually get resolved. Anybody in Pune or Mumbai know of a credible mechanic who can actually set this problem right. I love this vehicle for its mileage which is a decent 14KMPL in city conditions. Any inputs that can be provided will be welcome.
	() Thanks

15th June 2007, 10:33	#26
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,907 Times	gemi any update on your problem?
	() Thanks

15th June 2007, 11:05	#27
gemithomas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,366 Thanked: 143 Times View My Garage	Jaggu, it a long story. Few weeks earlier i managed to take a day off to experiment on this. Based on someones suggestion(on this forum) to keep the car stationary and rev slowly and see if the missing happens, i tried doing that. And guess what. i saw that the all the lights dim for a secong once in a while just around the same rpm. So i thought this must be have some connection and thought it should be some electrical problem that is creating this missing. So at the service centre i found one good chap who sat with me checking out and trying to figure outwhat is happening. We were just about to give up when he was standing outside and he felt hot air blowing on his legs just when the lights dimmed. BINGO!!!!!!! Its the FAN coming ON!!!!! So That answered why the lights were dimming once a while. He siad that its the same thing. like when we are a low speeds and when the fan comes on, the engine jerks because of that extra load theat kicks in. I'm pretty convinced with the first part of it (lights dimming) but the second part.....?????!!!!!!!! Anyways thought i would experiment a little more on my own before making them check anything further.
	() Thanks

15th June 2007, 11:08	#28
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,907 Times	very good diagnosis, you can report the same to fiat and see if they can do something about this
	() Thanks

15th June 2007, 11:12	#29
gemithomas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 2,366 Thanked: 143 Times View My Garage	jaggu i think this has happend due to their cost cutting effort. They have changed the brands of alternator, starter motor and many more things. This must be causing this problem.
	() Thanks