[gaurav.kokra]

Originally Posted by ChandraSekarMN

May be noob question(s): (knowing late is better than never learning)

1. Are the above precautions required for all diesel engines. The question is because, I use an Aspire TDCI and have not faced such issues. But I am willing to take precautions if that is necessary.

2. Can also someone mention how to use this Liqui moly Injector cleaner? Like, where and how frequently to add, what quantity of mixing with diesel etc. May follow this precautions for the Jetta bought recently by my friend.

1. Fords 1.5 TDCIs are known to be robust when compared to VW. But there's no harm in taking precautions. Not as much as VW owners.

2. I have been using the Liqui Moly additive during the last 2 services of my car. Adding one bottle directly into my 55 LTR tank does the work. It is a good product and very cheap to buy too. No harm in going forward. Just be aware of fake/duplicate bottles.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

It is already worn out, that is why your engine is running rough. Even if we recondition the injectors the result will be the same, replacement is the only option.

A side effect is oil contamination, oil consumption and blowby.

Rough idling is only in the morning and that also after a very long standby period. Post the warm up, it is really smooth and much better than the new generations 1.5 TDIs. Does not feel like a high mileage engine at all. Touchwood!

I comapared it with my friends Polo 1.5 TDI. Knocking is more prominent in 1.5 TDIs.

[dsuman]

My Mahindra Quanto too had Injector issues. On cold start i could feel a heavy kharr sound from the engine as if only 2 cylinders are firing. Starting off in gear, the car does not go beyond 2500 RPM and sputters as if there is no fuel. Check Engine light used to light up and go away after sometime. The ASC had suggested Injector replacement (only one) costing Rs 13000. Got it cleaned instead of replacement. Problem was bad quality fuel. Used to travel between Hyderabad and Vijayawada & fill Fuel as needed from all types of Fuel Pumps

One day unexpectedly when the above scenario repeated I pressed the accelerator hard on neutral and the 3rd cylinder started working. Seems fuel started flowing from injector.

From then on after 3 minutes of idling and 2kms driving I used to take the RPM to 3500 on neutral. Voila no issues. Check Engine Lamp used to go away too.

Replacement was suggested at 17000 kms odo in 2014. I sold off the car at 1,28,000 kms in 2021.

What I mean to say is, almost all cars are impacted by bad fuel Quality. It is just the tolerances that matter. For Mahindra threshold was more so I could escape Injector replacement. Skoda and VW may not have such high tolerance levels.

When I bought my Vento in 2014, Dealership people specifically told me to fill from Good Quality/Reputed Fuel Pumps and to strictly avoid ill maintained pumps.

[ankitsharma]

Does this affect VW petrol 1.0 tsi as well ?

[careind]

I have been filling up my rapid 1.5 DSG ONLY from shell and rarely fill up from BP if I am out station. The car is always on the move except the 1.0 lockdown. Even After that I had done multiple 700km/800km round trips in the past 18 months.
One of my injectors failed suddenly at 62k odo and I strongly believe it was not the fuel/fuel filter. I even filled up power diesel on 2 occasions just to give the engine a clear run.
Apart from doing injector maintenance specifically, I am not sure whether I could have done any other non-intrusive maintenance.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by autohead115

Hi Team-BHP

As we are all aware of the recent Kushaq's Fuel Pump issues from fuel adulteration, however, it looks like its not just limited to Kushaq, but other Skoda cars as well.

Came across this thread today. The precautionary measures suggested in this thread to avoid the injector failures are useful. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

It is already worn out, that is why your engine is running rough. Even if we recondition the injectors the result will be the same, replacement is the only option.

A side effect is oil contamination, oil consumption and blowby.

I understand that a worn out injector won't atomise the fuel properly. But what is the reason it will cause oil contamination, oil consumption and blow by?

I can understand if there is drop in performance and thermal efficiency because of inadequate atomisation. But if your rings are good, how does this cause blow by and oil consumption?

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

I understand that a worn out injector won't atomise the fuel properly. But what is the reason it will cause oil contamination, oil consumption and blow by?

I can understand if there is drop in performance and thermal efficiency because of inadequate atomisation. But if your rings are good, how does this cause blow by and oil consumption?

If the injector does not atomize the fuel it won't burn completely and then you see Soot. Soot gets past oil filters as well, rings won't stand a chance. Once Soot level reached a certain point , oil no longer protects the components.

Diesel can get into the sump in others ways too but failing injector is common in this case.

[Mainali]

I can so much relate to all the people here. I know that a lot of forum members have really in depth knowledge, but I will slightly beg to differ here for brand specific failures, I have seen this failures in almost every make and model of diesel engine vehicles which are sold in Manipur. Reason -- Fuel. I will come to this in detail later in this post.

My father owns(use to, he decided to retire this Jan 22) a moderate Fuel Injector Servicing centre. When I was a kid, during school days, I use to spend my summer vacations taking apart the peugeot and lucas delphi fuel injector, replacing the parts which needed replacement before they were taken for calibration which my dad use to take care of. Attaching the setup for reference. Please bear the photos they were never taken from a perspective to be shared.


This one is as far as I remember is a German made machine, I will ask for more details if anyone is interested, purely used for Injectors calibration. Select the vehicle make and model and it will do the rest, plus you have an option to overclock them as well like we can do with the graphics card. This is purely for underload and overload conditions to save on fuel or get the extra power by delivering extra fuel to the combustion chamber



Unfortunately I only have the side photo of this, will try to get more coverage of this one. This one was not connected when I visited last time, but this is for Euro 6/BS6. This can calibrate 4 injectors or more I don't know the exact details at one considerably reducing the time compared to the one above which can do one at a time taking 15 mins



One of the oldest machine, the beginning of everything for this service centre. If my dad has the photo of the first one I will share that across as well



Again one of the new arrivals for new generations engines, this is mostly used for calibrating heavy custom machinery running 6-12 cylinders. I never had the opportunity to see a 12 cylinder fuel pump but I have seen 8 and 10 cylinder fuel pumps



Side view of the 6-12 cylinder machine



Work in progress during covid



Finally the Man, my dad who is in Glasses




The reason I posted the above is, I am not talking without seeing the reality. I have seen the one of the biggest(high torque) engines as well as few fast ones(VW TDI) vehicle who have come to us. We service all kinds of diesel injectors and fuel pumps, small capacity to the largest one we have ever seen. I have also seen customer from Mahindra, Tata, Eicher, Man, Ashok Leyland, VW, Ford, Mercedes Benz(Heavy Vehicles) coming with failed injectors and fuel pump in less than 6 months of vehicle purchase. Why they come to us is ASS charge them a bomb and we do the same stuff with genuine spares for much lesser.

Coming back to the original problem why exactly they face the issue, one simple answer bad fuel. Manipur bunks are notorious for selling adulterated fuel, nothing much you can do about it. We have top level bureaucrats as well as politicians as customer. Good for business but bad for vehicle owners.

My dad was surprised when he had this conversation with a cab driver in siliguri driving a diesel Ertiga which had crossed 3L Kms and he never had to service the injector or the fuel pump. The max my dad has seen is a 2012 manufactured Tata 1613 truck which had clocked 120xxx Km in recent times. 30 years back, a truck use to come back in 2-3 years after clocking few lakhs Kms, now they come back in thousands Km. Also he was totally against me buying a diesel vehicle, since he has seen the horror of the customer first hand, I too grew up seeing that but somehow, I convinced myself saying the fuel outside NorthEast can't be so bad. Took a bet let see how it plays out.

There are a lot of things but I am keeping it brief, please ask any queries if you have, I will try my best to answer them, I do know a thing or two about injectors and fuel pumps

[scorpian]

Originally Posted by Mainali

There are a lot of things but I am keeping it brief, please ask any queries if you have, I will try my best to answer them, I do know a thing or two about injectors and fuel pumps

Good Morning!

Am glad you posted I had so many questions that I have been trying to find answers to. Let me ask them.

The vehicle in question is a SX4 DDiS. Kms clocked 153000.

I have had the injectors services and replaced all four nozzles as the car was emitting black smoke. Now that issue has been resolved totally.
Recently I had diesel leakage from my high pressure pump which is Bosch CP1H3 pump with DRV valve, I got the same tested as either ways I had removed it from the car.

The starting diesel value on the machine came as 27ml, the operator of the machine told me this is less and it should be at least 70ml on idle. How true is this? I have no starting troubles but yes I do have a bit of knocking which I am concerned about. Can a weak pump cause knocking?

Should I wait for any signs such as long cranking etc. or should I get the pump and plungers repaired as a preventive maintenance, he has quoted 15k for this and a new pump cost 30k. My main question is will a weak pump cause knocking? Wouldn't it first show itself by starting issues? I plan to keep the car for some more years and my daily driving is about 80kms so I don't want to be stranded.

Please advice.
Regards
Manoj

[Mainali]

Originally Posted by scorpian

Recently I had diesel leakage from my high pressure pump which is Bosch CP1H3 pump with DRV valve, I got the same tested as either ways I had removed it from the car.
The starting diesel value on the machine came as 27ml,the operator of the machine told me this is less and it should be at least 70ml on idle. How true is this?

He is correct here, since you mentioned that you have already replaced the Nozzles, I am assuming that there is no issue there, we generally charged 4K per plungers. So 15K with parts cost and labour seems to be okay. Only catch here is not all three plungers might replacement. Did he showed you that it was coming 27ml for all three of them. If its a yes, then you might have to change them. Getting stranded is a possibility, the car might fail to start.

I am linking a youtube link to the calibration of the above mentioned Bosch high pressure fuel pump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_CR8kvSvZI

[scorpian]

Originally Posted by Mainali

.. Did he showed you that it was coming 27ml for all three of them. If its a yes,

Yes I was present when the pump was being tested and it showed 27ml.

My mechanic says not to bother and to drive till you face any issue. He says car starts normally, pulls normally don't do anything. I want to be on the safe side as I use the car daily and plan to travel outstation with family soon.

Can you also share how would a failing pump affect the performance of a car? Or is it only failing to start the primary issue. Thanks in advance sorry for the many questions.

Regards
Manoj

[Mainali]

Originally Posted by scorpian

Yes I was present when the pump was being tested and it showed 27ml.

My mechanic says not to bother and to drive till you face any issue. He says car starts normally, pulls normally don't do anything. I want to be on the safe side as I use the car daily and plan to travel outstation with family soon.

Can you also share how would a failing pump affect the performance of a car? Or is it only failing to start the primary issue. Thanks in advance sorry for the many questions.

It's good to hear that there are service centre who are not coaxing you to fix that as soon as possible. I called up my dad and explained the scenario, he told he(you) must be facing some vibrations are you?, stalling is a definite scenario, it might not be tomorrow but it might. There are ways he was explaining to get it started in those scenario. He thought I am facing the problem with my car and told this, I told you, you should have listened to me and bought a petrol car. I could only understand and grab half of it how to get the vehicle started under such circumstances. I will try to create a new post after having a in-depth conversation what we can do under those situations.

I have one question here, you fuel pump is just sending 27ml per stroke/RPM(100stroke at 100 RPM this is used as the base calibration settings) and if you have not seen any drop in performance. Its kind of weird, we generally calibrate such config for a lean driven vehicle where fuel saving is more important than carrying capacity(Heavy vehicles) We generally ask if it hauls under load or over load, for under load the fuel which the injector emits to the combustion chamber is reduced to save on the fuel reducing the overall power and vice versa. You are saying the fuel pump is sending out 27ml per plungers which are divided by the common rail and fed into the injectors which in turns goes into the fuel chamber for combustion, yet you don't have any performance loss or anything. This part seems weird.

Technically this should not be the case. Going by this, your fuel consumption should reduce. Less fuel used without loosing on power, everyone would want that. Are you missing out on anything here?

[scorpian]

Originally Posted by Mainali

It's good to hear that there are service centre who are not coaxing you to fix that as soon as possible. I called up my dad and explained the scenario, he told he(you) must be facing some vibrations are you?, stalling is a definite scenario, it might not be tomorrow but it might.

First of all a big thank you to you and your dad for all the help!Really appreciate it.
Yes the mechanic is a friend whom i helped set up his workshop and send him a lot of customers also so hes very frank and straight forward guy.

I have understood all that you have explained and i realize that my HPIP needs a service.
1)Yes some vibrations are present.
2)The mileage has been very nice,i attribute this to less fuel being pumped.
3) I have been driving everyday and got habituated to the car that i may have not felt a drop in performance except that i now realize i have to push the throttle more.
So what i am going to do is remove the HPIP and send it to kolhapur from goa to the same place where i got my injectors rebuilt as i trust them more compared to the guy who checked my HPIP in goa,he was like adamant to do the work right away and i wasn't very comfortable cause he was being too pushy.Comparatively the guy in kolhapur told me he will first check the pump and then quote but he mentioned that compulsorily they have to change the seal kit which is about 1000 rupees.

Anyways since the car has done a high mileage i think its better to have the pump serviced once.
Hopefully after the overhaul i am good to go for another 150,000kms.
Thanks a tonne for all your help brother.
Reagrds,
Manoj.

[sbm]

Hello Gaurav. I have a question for you. Suppose someone is planning to buy a diesel car just for the fun to drive factor and is ready to bear the costly routine maintenance, should he/she also include the cost of an eventual injector failure in the cost of ownership. I mean are there any rules by which such failure could be avoided?

[scorpian]

Originally Posted by sbm

Hello Gaurav. I have a question for you. Suppose someone is planning to buy a diesel car just for the fun to drive factor and is ready to bear the costly routine maintenance, should he/she also include the cost of an eventual injector failure in the cost of ownership. I mean are there any rules by which such failure could be avoided?

No hard and fast rule!
Let me explain a friend of mine had his ford figo diesel very immaculately maintained, never missed a service , ran on good fuel and was always very gentle, at 54000k his two injectors failed.

How to avoid?
1)Use good fuel
2)Use periodically a good injector cleaner/additive.
3)If possible service the injectors at a very good service center for injectors/pumps etc.

As you must have read, i got my car injectors serviced due to heavy smoke, all four nozzles were replaced.I got the work done at Bosch authorized center which houses all the latest machines for checking and calibration.Recently even got the High pressure pump overhauled.

So a little preventive maintenance goes a long way in heklping avoid any sudden shocks.

[dhanushs]

I have a VW Vento, which is immaculately maintained. All services done from VW, ON TIME. I fuel only from a friends pump. Still my injectors failed.

I think the primary cause for injector failure for these cars are lack of use. If you dont use your car frequently (Injectors are lubricated by diesel), the injectors have a high probability of failure.

I have a couple of friends who have the 1.6 TDi Rapids running for 2 lacs and 3 lacs kms and only had injectors change once. Where as low kms run car, especially when car is idle for a long period of time, then when put in use, run for 100's of kms without break have a high probability of injector failure.