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Old 19th October 2021, 09:26   #1
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Default VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear

Introduction


As I have been getting deeper into coding cars recently, I have gotten more used to the diagnostics side of the many available programs as well. For VAG cars, the easiest to use option is VCDS (Ross Tech LLC, PA, USA). The main advantage being that it combines most of the important diagnostics and coding options in one app in a more user friendly fashion.
And as can be seen on the forum, the DQ200 still seems to send shocks through the spines of many uninitiated (as it used to for me as well). But with a good number of enthusiasts considering to get a pre owned GT TSI DSG and an updated version of the DQ200 now on offer with Taigun/Kushaq, it continues to remain a relevant topic of discussion (more so on this forum as compared to the General Market).

The original issue with mechatronics has been more or less sorted in newer cars (2014 onwards) but the clutches do still seem to wear out faster than expected for a Dual Clutch gearbox. Wearing it out isnít unexpected(it is a wear and tear part after all) but doing so at not very high mileage (at 50-60k Kms on the Odo) is disappointing and is currently the only Achilles heal of this fantastic piece of machinery.
So the premise of this thread is obvious, how to check the state of the DQ200 clutches in any given car. Present and Past. This would be useful for any curious owner or a potential buyer of a used car with this gearbox (GT TSI is an eternal forum favourite). Letís Dive in!

Measuring Blocks

With the car stationary, engine running but in P or N. In VCDS, open the Auto Trans Module (02-Auto Trans) and open Measured Value Blocks. These are the various parameters that are available for monitoring for the purpose of Diagnosis by VAG technicians. But the biggest issue is that most are unlabelled and you could spend potentially hours figuring out which ones are important and how to go about interpreting them. This is where the Self Study Program (SSP-94) linked below helped me out. Only thing you need to know is that the two clutches are labelled K1 and K2.

VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear-mvb.jpg

The last 2 points are the most important for us.
ďThe state of the clutch K1 can be determined by reading the MVB 95-97, whereas the state of the clutch K2
can be determined by reading the MVB 115-117 .It is possible to determine the current position of the adjuster
for K1 in the MVB 91 and for K2, in the MVB 111 ď
So for Clutch K1 the following values need to be monitored.
VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear-k1-check.jpg

So how does it look like on VCDS? Here is a snapshot of the readings from my 2019 GT TSI, currently done around 18k kms.

VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear-k1vcdsx.jpg

ď95.1 minus 97.1 must be greater than 2 mm,
Due to insufficient clutch play, shifting of the input shaft occurs. (This will be entered in the fault memory.)
See example No. 2 and a low difference in value of the blocks 95.1 minus 97.1.
97.2 minus 96.3 must be greater than 1 mm,
At a lower value the maximum torque is not transmitted and a clutch slippage occurs. The vehicle may start to jolt
when driving in higher gears or when accelerating. (This will be entered in the fault memory) ď

for Clutch K2 the following values need to be monitored.
VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear-k2-check.jpg

VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear-k2vcdsx.jpg
115.1 minus 117.1 must be greater than 2 mm,
Due to insufficient clutch play, shifting of the input shaft occurs. (This will be entered in the fault memory.)
See example No. 2 and a low difference in value of the blocks 117.1 minus 115.1.
117.2 minus 116.3 must be greater than 1 mm,
At a lower value the maximum torque is not transmitted and a clutch slippage occurs.The vehicle may start to jolt
when driving in higher gears or when accelerating (This will be entered in the fault memory)


As can be seen, the values seem to be well within the normal limit and much higher than the 2 mm and 1mm as described. From my observation of about 10 DQ200 equipped cars, these calculated values approach the 2mm and 1mm as the Odo of the car increases but remains Within Normal limits if the clutches are engaging properly and the Gearbox working normally. Thus a higher value of these readings indicates a potentially longer clutch life remaining from the time of measurement. But definitely a car driven on highway for 50k kms would have lesser wear on the clutch as compared to a car that has done the same mileage in city with peak traffic, so donít judge the car purely based on the odo.
Also MVB 235-244 and 245-254 can be checked to see any previously recorded fault.

Bonus MVB
Just an interesting tidbit visible in the system is the number of times the clutches have been engaged in the lifetime of the car. Maybe so that you can be happy about the fact that you have an AT and your left leg can thank you for sparing it.
VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear-bonus.jpg

VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear-bonus-vcdsx.jpg

Last edited by agambhandari : 19th October 2021 at 09:49.
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Old 19th October 2021, 09:35   #2
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Default re: VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear

Closing Thoughts

VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear-polo-tsi.jpg

DQ200 clearly isnít for everyone. I still maintain that I probably would have bought an MT TSI Polo( if it were available at the time I bought it ) purely to avoid it. But living with it for nearly 3 years now I would not have it any other way. The shifts are faaast when you need them to be and imperceptible when you want them to be. It is a better gearbox than most of us would be at working a Manual. And this gearbox is a big part of the exciting puzzle that is the GT TSI. It rows through gears like nobodyís business and thatís what makes the car feel fast(er than it probably is). This is something that has gone missing in the newer Polo TSI AT with the torque converter Aisin Gearbox. I also test drove the Kushaq 1.5 DSG and while I was quick to complain that the engine in it is just too linear compared to the 1.2 TSi, Iím glad to share that the DSG was still as snappy as it is in the Polo.

A well maintained GT TSI is a great entry point for most enthusiasts and I have shared this info on the forum so as to shed some light onto the unkown. and to dispel the fears that many have about buying a car with one. With the mechatronic unit now being more reliable, the days of randomly being stranded are definitely behind us and the Clutch pack is the only real thing to keep a note of. And Even when it does eventually Pack up (sorry for the Pun ) , replacement parts are readily available and can be done by an experienced installer as documented by a good friend and fellow Bhpian Viraat13 here (DSG FIX - Multiclutch replacement of the DQ200 on my VW Polo GT TSI).

P.S. And do install those paddle shifters that you are thinking about! Its probably the most Fun Mod that can be added to this car. I canít imagine driving my car without it now.
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Last edited by agambhandari : 19th October 2021 at 09:43.
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Old 20th October 2021, 05:17   #3
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Default re: VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 20th October 2021, 07:18   #4
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Default re: VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear

Fantastic post. Can be very valuable to anyone thinking of buying used cars equipped with this gearbox - not just humble Polo. Dual clutch transmission really fascinates me and I read every word of your post. No gearbox is more exciting to drive than a properly programmed dual clutch ones and DQ200, for all its shortcomings, is one of the best in business. On a Polo, it feels incredible. Like you said, paddles are a must for an enthusiast.
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Old 20th October 2021, 09:39   #5
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Default Re: VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post

DQ200 clearly isnít for everyone.

....

And Even when it does eventually Pack up (sorry for the Pun ) , replacement parts are readily available and can be done by an experienced installer as documented by a good friend and fellow Bhpian Viraat13 here (DSG FIX - Multiclutch replacement of the DQ200 on my VW Polo GT TSI).

P.S. And do install those paddle shifters that you are thinking about! Its probably the most Fun Mod that can be added to this car. I canít imagine driving my car without it now.
Attachment 2220950
Great thread Agam!

I'd explored all these details while I was working on my car but I wasn't able to dedicate the time needed to fully understand it. Of course, in my case I had already physically seen the state of the clutch pack, so there was nothing more to learn.

Anyway, I don't think you have to worry about clutch failure on your car. Your low running isn't going to cause problems for the rest of your ownership period.
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Old 20th October 2021, 10:20   #6
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Default Re: VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear

Wonderfully researched & helpful thread!

The wearing out of the clutch pack of even a normal MT Gearbox at 50K Kms, is not at all surprising. It all depends on usage conditions.

The real differentiator here is the cost.
Replacing the Clutch & Flywheel of a normal MT hatch cost between Rs15-25000.
The same replacement on the DSG is supposedly expected to cost around Rs1lakh (If done at VW Service).
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Old 21st October 2021, 09:41   #7
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Default Re: VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Fantastic post... I read every word of your post. No gearbox is more exciting to drive than a properly programmed dual clutch ones and DQ200, for all its shortcomings, is one of the best in business. On a Polo, it feels incredible. Like you said, paddles are a must for an enthusiast.
Thanks for your kind words, I have a TCU remap as well on my car which has corrected the overly jerky nature of this gearbox in S mode and hopes to correct the overheating issue in b2b traffic. Lets see how it pans out in the long run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viraat13 View Post
Great thread Agam!

I'd explored all these details while I was working on my car but I wasn't able to dedicate the time needed to fully understand it. Of course, in my case I had already physically seen the state of the clutch pack, so there was nothing more to learn.

Anyway, I don't think you have to worry about clutch failure on your car. Your low running isn't going to cause problems for the rest of your ownership period.
Haha, thanks. Yes im not worried about the clutch failure, just ended up going deep into vcds and found something interesting to share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Wonderfully researched & helpful thread!

The real differentiator here is the cost.
Replacing the Clutch & Flywheel of a normal MT hatch cost between Rs15-25000.
The same replacement on the DSG is supposedly expected to cost around Rs1lakh (If done at VW Service).
Agreed, that's why a good FNG can definitely save your butt in these situations, with a good 30-40 percent savings on these prices.
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Old 21st October 2021, 16:33   #8
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Default Re: VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear

Brilliant write up!

To the point of the DSG gearbox being more reliable now; While we do have loads of horror stories about DSG gearbox failures. Looking at it anecdotally, it seems that most of these stories are from older models of VW cars. Does anyone know of newer models of VW cars with the DQ200 having gearbox failures?
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Old 21st October 2021, 20:14   #9
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Default Re: VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear

Your clutch 1 engagement count is 3 times of your clutch 2.
Seems abnormal to me.
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Old 21st October 2021, 22:36   #10
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Default Re: VW DSG: How to check the DQ200's clutch wear

Awesome information Agam

Among other things, number of times clutch 1 and 2 engaged is a nice data - I had always wanted to track this to see how much strain my left leg/knee has sustained over last 15 years of driving Do they also log the number of times each gear has been engaged?
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