[NutsNBolts]

Thanks for the links di1in. Spicer report is pretty informative. If the graphs and tables are not doctored, it is not easy to say that Spicer was biased.

[Guite]

Originally Posted by di1in

If your aim is to reduce noise from the engine bay, i would recommend staying away from performance airfilters and their accompanying kits. Their function is to increase airflow, and with that comes a more pronounced induction "roar". Especially in your case since you don't rev high, the paper filter is better suited to your needs.

di1in, thanks for the reply. As per your advise I am sticking to stock filter.

[di1in]

Originally Posted by Guite

di1in, thanks for the reply. As per your advise I am sticking to stock filter.

google landed me here - guess the world (wideweb) is really round. You still running with stock filters? It's been a year

[mgh]

basics of filtration with a filter medium
1. air flow is related to pressure drop across the filter and filtration area
2. finer the particles that can be removed, more is the pressure drop
3. the more clogged the filter, the more is the pressure drop
4. the filtration improves when a layer of dirt forms on it
it follows that to increase airflow you need to
1. increase filtration area for same filtration efficiency, usually by pleating the filter medium
2. reduce filtration efficiency for same filtration area
3. improved design of filtration medium to reduce pressure drop, while maintaining filtration efficiency
No. 2 is obviously undesirable
No. 3 is subject of continuing research
No. 1 is the easiest way
Also since you will be sucking more air, the intake pipe size etc. would need to be increased

[di1in]

Originally Posted by mgh

it follows that to increase airflow you need to
1. increase filtration area for same filtration efficiency, usually by pleating the filter medium
2. reduce filtration efficiency for same filtration area
3. improved design of filtration medium to reduce pressure drop, while maintaining filtration efficiency
No. 2 is obviously undesirable
No. 3 is subject of continuing research
No. 1 is the easiest way
Also since you will be sucking more air, the intake pipe size etc. would need to be increased

Sadly K&N has used No.2 and No.3 in it's oiled cotton filters. They're market strategy is that by the time adverse effects are seen on the engine it would have been modded enough to take the blame away from something so simple as a cotton a filter.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by di1in

Sadly K&N has used No.2 and No.3 in it's oiled cotton filters. They're market strategy is that by the time adverse effects are seen on the engine it would have been modded enough to take the blame away from something so simple as a cotton a filter.

This is a bit too much conspiracy theory. BMC uses the same type of filtration material and oils it in the same way and guess what? Abarth uses in the Grande Punto SS as well as in the Abarth 500 SS an oiled cotton gauze BMC filter element and use the same type from BMC in the Trofeos.

[di1in]

Originally Posted by CPH

This is a bit too much conspiracy theory. BMC uses the same type of filtration material and oils it in the same way and guess what? Abarth uses in the Grande Punto SS as well as in the Abarth 500 SS an oiled cotton gauze BMC filter element and use the same type from BMC in the Trofeos.

BMC might use cotton & oil to aid in filtration just like k&n but that does not mean they are just as lax in standards. I'd posted a review from bobistheoilguy earlier in one of the filter threads and the results show how bad k&n is at filtering - especially once dust starts to accumulate reducing the stickiness of the oil. Paper filters showed a constant (and higher) filtration throughout service life.

Moreover, check out the SPICER report and see how the K&N performs. It's much more a show-of than an actual filter.

This is not to say that regular BMC after-market performance filters (or any other cotton filter) are good either. A topspeed article on the 2010 Abarth Punto Evo says that the BMC filters used in these line-ups as OEM products are of a very special design. So they're different from the after-market filters that they sell.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by di1in

BMC might use cotton & oil to aid in filtration just like k&n but that does not mean they are just as lax in standards. I'd posted a review from bobistheoilguy earlier in one of the filter threads and the results show how bad k&n is at filtering - especially once dust starts to accumulate reducing the stickiness of the oil. Paper filters showed a constant (and higher) filtration throughout service life.

Moreover, check out the SPICER report and see how the K&N performs. It's much more a show-of than an actual filter.

This is not to say that regular BMC after-market performance filters (or any other cotton filter) are good either. A topspeed article on the 2010 Abarth Punto Evo says that the BMC filters used in these line-ups as OEM products are of a very special design. So they're different from the after-market filters that they sell.

I don't give anything for these reports.

I am not in love with K&N. However, I give credit where credit is due. And when you check out my credentials you will see that I speak with authority.

There is nothing wrong with the K&N filter medium. Ijust don't like the K&N approach to marketing their products and their induction kits are a joke apart from some of the typhoons. The replacement filters are okay. K&N sells every year in excess of 30,00,000 units. Under European and US legislation it weould be pretty easy to sue them for damages. Why has nobody yet successfully claimed?

It has never been proven that the oil in the filter has damaged a MAF.

Between the Grren, BMC and K&N filter medium is no technical difference and neither with the oil.

I use in all my applications oiled cotton gauze filters with engines running them for up tp ten years. None of my products ever had a problem with MAFs or any increased wear. I am doing my job only for 31 years and as much as I would love to prove K&N wrong on their material I can't.

BTW I do know BMC very well as I have done some development work in connection with them.

The filter elements I have seen plenty of problems with were Piperx, when the sponges started to disintegrate and damage the MAF.

[di1in]

Originally Posted by CPH

I don't give anything for these reports.

I am not in love with K&N. However, I give credit where credit is due. And when you check out my credentials you will see that I speak with authority.

There is nothing wrong with the K&N filter medium. Ijust don't like the K&N approach to marketing their products and their induction kits are a joke apart from some of the typhoons. The replacement filters are okay. K&N sells every year in excess of 30,00,000 units. Under European and US legislation it weould be pretty easy to sue them for damages. Why has nobody yet successfully claimed?

It has never been proven that the oil in the filter has damaged a MAF.

Between the Grren, BMC and K&N filter medium is no technical difference and neither with the oil.

I use in all my applications oiled cotton gauze filters with engines running them for up tp ten years. None of my products ever had a problem with MAFs or any increased wear. I am doing my job only for 31 years and as much as I would love to prove K&N wrong on their material I can't.

BTW I do know BMC very well as I have done some development work in connection with them.

The filter elements I have seen plenty of problems with were Piperx, when the sponges started to disintegrate and damage the MAF.

Is there a reason you don't trust these reports? They were conducted under ISO conditions so that must mean they're pretty standard. K&N invited Spencer in and they did tests together as well which showed little difference.

Anyways, I'll take your word about having no probs about K&N and BMC. I'd been putting off installing a CAI all this time, but now I'm converted. Based on your expertise is there a particular company that you'd recommend? Green perhaps..

[ad3952n]

Dear Team,

I need views about using a K&N Filter for my Honda City Ivtec. Yesterday paid a visit to my Uncle Mr. Pradeep Pandit at his Okhla workshop and asked about it as he is authorized dealer of K&N Air Filters. He told it would increase the overall engine's stats by 10% and on the other hand i met a known-to guy in my sector who told that the Air Filter of K&N increases engine's output stats by 30%. So is it worth to put in the k&N and replace OE by Honda? Also Mr. Pandit said due to Rupee devaluation the cost has gone up by 2k for the K&N filter and presently it costs INR 7490/-. Is it worth in the long run?

[tharian]

Originally Posted by ad3952n

Dear Team,

I need views about using a K&N Filter for my Honda City Ivtec. Yesterday paid a visit to my Uncle Mr. Pradeep Pandit at his Okhla workshop and asked about it as he is authorized dealer of K&N Air Filters. He told it would increase the overall engine's stats by 10% and on the other hand i met a known-to guy in my sector who told that the Air Filter of K&N increases engine's output stats by 30%. So is it worth to put in the k&N and replace OE by Honda? Also Mr. Pandit said due to Rupee devaluation the cost has gone up by 2k for the K&N filter and presently it costs INR 7490/-. Is it worth in the long run?

For that amount, I would suggest sticking to the OEM filter. I am guessing you are referring the open conical or cylindrical filter and not the stock replacement.
30% increase will never happen with just a filter replacement . A open air filter particularly with a Cold Air Intake works well with a free flow exhaust and not just by itself and a re-map makes it even better.
Just along with a open filter, you increase in power would be only phsycological than actual mechanical. The car will feel like it is revving more due to the sound .

Regards

[dinu2506]

J have used the stock replacement filter and then a conical typhoon kit in my earlier Civic. Both 30% and 10% are highly inflated figures. With the stock replacement, you will not find any difference from OEM and it will be just a mental horsepower you would be gaining. With a conical, the low end improves a tad little and the engine makes a sportier intake sound on acceleration. Beyond that, absolutely nothing. If you ask me, both are not worth. If you really want a good improvement, go in for a good FFE, that will give you much better gains and driveability.

[latentpotential]

In case you are missing the original link in the first post: http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

[ad3952n]

Thanks mate, I am at peace now. Shall keep the OE Filter for my car.

Regards

AD

[Chethan B G]

I was looking at the following air-filter for my remapped Jetta Tdi. This is a OEM speck dry filter which do not use any oil. Can the experts kindly comment if it is good to upgrade OR retain stock paper filter and replace it once in 6K Kms? Please.

Link: http://afepower.com/shop/details_new...ns_array=Array

aFe Power MagnumFLOW OER PRO DRY S Air Filters; VW Jetta/Golf 09-12 L4-2.0L (tdi) 31-10172


Link: http://afepower.com/shop/details_new...711&brandID=53

Cold Air Intake System-Stage-2 Si-MagnumFORCE Stage-2 Si Pro DRY S Intake Systems; VW Jetta 09-14 L4-2.0L TDI - 51-81711