[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by adneo

The whole point of going with a Indian manufacturer was to get around all these and it very unfortunate that Team Mahindra doesnt realise how much it means to go for 30 L car from a Indian brand. And they have just proved all those sayings right with the experience I am going through absolutely mad.

" We havent heard this from any other customer!" How on earth is that supposed to help, solve justify the issue?!

" We are waiting for an identical vehicle! - Dealer" how can Mahindra ask this! There are so many variable which makes this exercise stupid and futile. Kms run, abuse taken by the suspension etc. Mahindra has got the bloody specs, a plant full of new cars with all combos/trims/specs.

Its just terrible that there is an absolute lack of urgency in understanding, analyzing and resolving the problem.

It may sound very harsh, but the truth is, being technically aware of cars and also being aware of how the car industry works, you went with heart over the head and placed blind trust in a 'ground up brand new product' developed in India. No matter what anyone says or tries to prove/argue, all customers who are first-year buyers, are beta testers for the company. Even a company like Maruti who are considered masters of getting products 'first-time-right' are not exempt from this 1st-year beta-testing customer cycle.

The Indian car market is a mad-rush fish market like scenario, people falling over each other, to put "launching for the first time in India" in their marketing material. It's a case of quantity over quality - how many variants, how many models, how many features. Very much like the mid-range mobile phone market - every month there is something or the other getting "launch"ed. Models become defunct in a year, product cycles are really really short. Though this should never apply to the auto industry, take a look back at the past 5 years. How many new models and facelifts of the same thing have rolled out like the 100-variety-dosas from a street food stall ? The focus is on quantity, quality has taken a back seat - no manufacturer is exempt.

In this scenario, obviously the pressure to shrink product development duration will take it's toll ; and the main casualty of the time-pressure axe will be "testing". I know that Mahindra had been camouflage testing the 700 for 2-3 years even, but, nevertheless, (the move to a luxury SUV can't be easy, for essentially a utility vehicle manufacturer, who probably only have a 10-year history of making actual passenger cars, and who have a plethora of JV failures in their CV) the nature of the issues getting reported are far too basic - I'm not even talking about the in-house software developed electronic gremlins (infotainment system, instrument cluster etc) - I'm talking about basic mechanical issues like yours, the petrol models having evap system issues, etc. These are chapter1, page1, of basic auto engineering, and hence are a major, major blot on Mahindra's reputation.

People used to utter the cliche : "oh, mahindra ? patchy and weird electricals, but mechanically solid" . Even this, is under threat now.

Tough luck, Aditya. Hope you find resolution. Keep the mind peaceful and cultivate patience w.r.t this matter - anger is not going to change the methods of an automobile company, who are in denial that their golden baby has flaws, just like anyone else's ordinary baby.

Originally Posted by Raghu M

I own a 3OO and I had many apprehensions before buying an M&M. Trust me, my ownership experience has been a smooth sail so far. There are zero niggles, rattles in the car.

The 300 is not a Mahindra, is a rebadged SsangYong Tivoli.
The 700 is an in-house Mahindra.
That's the difference.

[manjubp]

Originally Posted by BrakeDancer

The levels of refinement that we get from the Japanese manufacturers and Germans are actually far better than what Tata or Mahindra are able to offer. Which is not a slight on Tata or Mahindra but just a way of saying that they have a long way to go before being talked about in the same sentence.

I have to agree with your point on the refinement, having owned couple of VAG (European)cars, cars from Maruti(Japan??), Hyundai (Korean) and couple of cars from Tata (Indian).

But the point what is missed out here is difference in total ownership cost among them and VFM quotient of each of the car. If you want to buy an European car similar to that of XUV7OO in features, capability and power, you have to pay ~2x the price, ~3x the insurance and ~3-4x of maintenance. So it is not apple to apple comparison.

So you can't go to a fast service restaurant and expect a 5 star service. You get only what you pay for.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

The difference is not 10mm from your pics. It is more like ~6mm from the center of the wheel hub to the bodyline.

Do you mean 6cm and not 6mm? Height difference is visible to the naked eye.

[nitkel]

This thread will help you out I believe.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ct-nope-2.html (Ford Endeavour tilting & sagging to the left | Manufacturing defect? Nope!)

[adneo]

Update on the Issue :

Yesterday Mahindra sent someone from the plant to have a look at the car and he didnt even open the suspension to physically validate the components. He asked me to drive my car and after I showed him the rolling issue he drove very sedately and told me there is no issue. Then we drove a brand new AWD car from Dealership demo pool and I felt there was no roll but this time he induced roll with very aggressive steering inputs.

His net observations are as follows :

1. There is no rolling problem in the car, just going by perception and not physically opening the suspension.

2. They wont dismantle the suspension unless there are tell tale signs of leakage.

In the meanwhile I got ride height readings from a fellow TeamBhp member's AWD which has done more KMs than my car but has got equal ride height on both sides. The Mahindra guy just kept saying that difference is within tolerance.

I have told them that it cannot be such a coincidence that I felt rolling to one side first and then suddenly it turned out that the same side had a ride height difference.

Its just appalling to have spent to so much and then get such perception based support. Feels like getting treated by a Quack doctor!

I also showed him the picture of the sagging rear and he aggressively pushed back saying rear can sag under load and there is no problem. On talking about reduced front traction, shift of weight during braking etc, he just kept saying there is no problem.

I am not giving up yet and I would request all members/owners to observe the suspension and incase of inconsistencies, raise it with the dealer so that they can no longer get away saying there have been no reports.

[Mudhalaipatti]

This is interesting. I thought all wheels and wheel wells would be of the exact same height or at least close. Guess not. Checkout the images below.

Driver Side Rear Wheel --->
Passenger Side Rear Wheel
Driver Side Front Wheel--->
Passenger Side Rear Wheel

While I didn't take the readings from a perfectly flat surface, it was not an overly uneven surface either. The vehicle was unloaded and still the the rear driver side was "sagging" a good 2 inches than the passenger side.

The sidebyside view should help.



The fuel tank was full btw.

Also I have driven this vehicle in this setup for 10K km and haven't felt any body roll, undue pull to any side or an uneven/unbalanced ride. In fact took it out on a maniac highway run over the weekend and performed flawlessly, especially when dropping from excess of speed limit kmph to 0 kmph.

[venkyhere]

It's crystal clear to me, that there is something wrong with the suspension mounting or the suspension geometry/components itself :

wheel well gap -

adneo's diesel AWD :
-------------------------
front right 2.5 inches
front left 3.5 inches
(assuming the mean is 3 inches, 1/2 inch is lost by one side and gained by other)

Mudhalaipatti's petrol FWD :
-------------------------------
front right 3.75 inches
front left 3.75 inches
(this is fine, and maybe the 3/4 inch excess w.r.t diesel version is probably because the petrol engine might be lighter)

rear right 3 inches
rear left 5 inches
(assuming the mean is 4 inches, 1 inch is lost by one side and gained by other)



I can't fathom why the Mahindra engineer said "it's within tolerance" - it's easily visible to the naked eye, an asymmetry that is visible to the naked eye cannot be within the 'tolerance' of any automobile

[adneo]

A quick update to keep everyone posted on the progress.
I stuck to my point with Mahindra that the sequence of events and the complaints raised clearly established a connection between the rolling to the right and the right suspension sitting lower. After reaching out to the top management, finally Mahindra sent in a team of 3 chaps from the R&D division.

On demoing the rolling problem one of the team members could feel it and the car was taken back and the rear suspension dismantled. As expected on measuring the rear springs the right side spring was found to have inconsistent coil gap and so the rear set of springs were replaced.

Post spring swap the ride hide immediately got corrected and the car now sits straight without the signature "Pushpa" tilt to the right. I also TDed the car after the swap and the rolling seems to have got contained to a certain extent.

The R&D team has requested me to drive the car for a few days to evaluate and then if required they might change the front springs as well.

While I am greatful to the top Management at Mahindra for sending in the R&D team to look into the issue, I still made it abundantly clear that a customer from this segment deserves a lot better and they need to scale up the after sales experience and processes to be at par with competition.

Keeping my fingers crossed, will post an update after I have covered a few 100 kms on these springs.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by Mudhalaipatti

The sidebyside view should help.

Attachment 2305712

The fuel tank was full btw.

1 inch difference between the left and right is abnormal. Is the fuel tank present on the side drooping more? If yes, could be the reason for the difference. I suggest you verify once with an almost empty tank and check the difference.

[kdp]

Originally Posted by adneo

A quick update to keep everyone posted on the progress.
I stuck to my point with Mahindra that the sequence of events and the complaints raised clearly established a connection between the rolling to the right and the right suspension sitting lower. After reaching out to the top management, finally Mahindra sent in a team of 3 chaps from the R&D division.


While I am greatful to the top Management at Mahindra for sending in the R&D team to look into the issue, I still made it abundantly clear that a customer from this segment deserves a lot better and they need to scale up the after sales experience and processes to be at par with competition.

While its encouraging that Mahindra eventually took cognizance of the problem and actually helped you get it rectified, its sad that the first solution is always to minimise or "mansplain (for the lack of a better word) away the problem. Regrettably this playbook is not unique to Mahindra but part of almost every car vendor in India's way of working. My personal experience is that its Maruti that is most likely to listen. OP is actually part of a tiny minority that stuck to his guns and kept escalating, most would have accepted the dealer word or most probably the first Mahindra "expert". and lived with much less of a car than they paid for, if not putting themselves and those around them on the road in a potentially dangerous solution.

I had a similar problem with my brand new X3 many years ago, the left pull was explained away as road camber issues and the selling dealer was unable to find anything wrong. switching dealers and a more knowledgeable service advisor later, the steering rack was identified as the culprit and replaced under warranty.

EDIT: Perhaps we should contribute to an updated T-BHP PDI wiki. (hoping that dealer most likely to listen during PDI since car is not yet invoiced to the owner)

[akn1984]

A popular YouTuber, Vikas Dayal, who runs a channel by the name of Explore The Unseen 2.0, is selling his two month old XUV 700.
He is frustrated and fed up with a very bad noise issue in his car and also with the Mahindra service.
He also owns a Thar and plans to sell it also.

Here is the link to his video-

https://youtu.be/LFwCvpR-as0

[Kapany]

Originally Posted by akn1984

A popular YouTuber, Vikas Dayal
He also owns a Thar and plans to sell it also.

I personally wouldn’t put too much stock in these YouTubers. Most of them follow a very typical story telling arc of making videos about buying a car, then modifying the car, then going on a road trip with the new car (preferably Leh)then finding niggles with the car and selling it only to buy the next ‘in’ car. Rinse and repeat. All to milk views.

[MarutiGuy1977]

So I've seen a few videos of his. Mainly on travelling. And then there was an exponential decay in the quality of his videos. But that being said, in particular to the XUV7OO. He buys a new one AX7L D AWD. Praises it to the skies, and then

1. Takes a freshly minted car our for drag races

2. Takes it to Leh/ Spiti, and in freezing temperatures, uses the car battery in the night / early morning to charge his laptop and accesories. And then is shocked that his battery has died down and car does not turn on.

3. Takes the car off roading on the outskirts of Gurgaon. Drives it through a lake (similar to what some people did in Pangyong in an Audi)

4. During his Spiti trip realises that in the trip his FE has been low (through all the steep climbs etc). Sometimes as low as 5.XX km/ L

5. After this, takes the XUV for servicing and find out that the brake pads are "used up" and there is large amounts of dust in the AC filter. For this he has to spend around INR 14500. He keeps saying that "this was a free service (10000 km) and it cost him so much

So as mentioned above, I wouldn't trust a youtuber who doesn't know that a car shouldn't be taken to drag races before the break in period. And the other points above.

[Quad47]

Agree,I definitely sees this pattern in the youtube videos of so called influencers
They usually have a dumb-shocked reaction as a thumbnail and very little to talk about the "shocking title" in the video. I ignore these videos the moment I see these clickbaits.

thankfully there are some good moto-journalist who have some quality content.

[Traveler]

While I agree that he may have abused his car but there is no smoke without fire. There are many reports of electronic glitches and other issues related to suspension in this car.

The noise that is coming from his car suspension is really awful and seems like his struts have given way. Strut failure at 10k is not impossible but you really need to abuse the car way more than this.

IMHO it seems the age old adage of Mahindra and Tata using their initial customers as Guinea pigs still holds true.