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-   -   1st Gen Honda City Owners - Problems Areas, Fuel Efficiency and more (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/26232-1st-gen-honda-city-owners-problems-areas-fuel-efficiency-more-65.html)

infotech Couldn update the pics of the connector for the scanner.But pic that you uploaded is the right one.The parrot green cover is just a holder/cover.The two plugs are then plugged into the scanner.

UPDATE to the CEL issue for my Honda City.

1. scanned the code, O2 sensor is good, CEL is ON because of non functional speedo. need to change speedometer cable.

2. when i connected my OBD II (only) scanner using an adapter to the port, it did not work. however another diagnostic unit which had capability to read Honda specific codes did work well.

3. Most Important Information: similar to how it is done for Suzuki cars, there is a cheat/manual way to read the CEL on OHC without using any tools - follow the process:

a. take off the right side port (that has two pins) from the cover (refer to the photo i uploaded in my previous post).

b. take a piece of wire and short the pins in this port. car should be off.

c. put the key in ignition and move to ON position, do not start.

d. when you put the ignition in ON mode, CEL would flash on the console, count the number of times it flashes.

e. if there are multiple codes stored in ECU, CEL will flash for the first code, then would remain off for 2-3 seconds and then flash again for the next code and so on.

f. decode the diagnostic code from the list below (reference: Check Engine Light codes (CEL) Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) and - Honda-Tech)

I tried above, and got a 17 for my car which indicates problem with VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor).


1 Oxygen Sensor "A" (Primary) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
2 Oxygen Sensor "B" defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
3 MAP Sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
4 CKP Sensor (Crankshaft Position Sensor) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
5 MAP Sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure) mechanical problem / disconnected piping
* not 94-95
6 ECT Sensor (Engine Coolant Temperature) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
7 TP Sensor (Throttle Position) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
8 TDC Sensor (Top Dead Center) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
9 CYP Sensor (Cylinder) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
* invalid code for throttle body injection Hondas
** invalid code for V6 engines
10 IAT Sensor (Intake Air Temperature) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
12 EGR Lift Sensor (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
* invalid code for non-equipped EGR valve vehicles
13 BARO Sensor (Atmospheric Pressure) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
14 IAC Valve (Idle Air Control) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
15 Ignition Output Signal missing or defective ignition output signal
16 Fuel Injector System defective circuit or unplugged / defective fuel injector
17 VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
19 Automatic Transmission Lock Up Control Solenoid Valve defective circuit or unplugged / defective solenoid valve
20 Electrical Load Detector defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
21 VTEC Solenoid Valve defective circuit or unplugged / defective solenoid valve
* invalid code for non-VTEC engine
** invalid for V6 engine
22 VTEC Oil Pressure Switch defective circuit or unplugged / defective oil pressure switch
* invalid code for non-VTEC engine
23 KS (Knock Sensor) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
* invalid code for V6 engine
30 Automatic Transmission Signal: "A" / SEAF / SEFA / TMA or TMB defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
* invalid code for 1996
31 Automatic Transmission Signal "B" defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
41 Primary Oxygen Sensor - Heater circuit malfunction
43 Fuel Supply System defective or malfunctioning fuel supply system
45 System Too Lean or Too Rich malfunction in the fuel monitoring systems
48 LAF Sensor (Lean Air Fuel) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
54 CKF Sensor (Crankshaft Speed Fluctuation) defective circuit or unplugged / defective sensor
61 Oxygen Sensor, Heated - Sensor 1 (Primary) high voltage, low voltage, or slow response
63 Oxygen Sensor, Heated - Sensor 2 (Secondary) high voltage, low voltage, or slow response
65 Oxygen Sensor Heater (Secondary) malfunctioning or defective oxygen sensor heater
67 Catalyst system Efficiency Below Threshold malfunctioning or defective catalyst system
70 Automatic Transmission malfunction with the automatic transmission controls
71 Cylinder 1 Misfire or a Random Misfire a condition is present that is creating a cylinder misfire
72 Cylinder 2 Misfire or a Random Misfire a condition is present that is creating a cylinder misfire
73 Cylinder 3 Misfire or a Random Misfire a condition is present that is creating a cylinder misfire
74 Cylinder 4 Misfire or a Random Misfire a condition is present that is creating a cylinder misfire
80 Exhaust Gas Recirculation insufficient flow detected
86 ECT Sensor (Engine Coolant Temperature) circuit range / performance problem
90 Evaporative Emission Control System leak detected in the fuel tank area
91 Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor low input
92 Evaporative Emission Control System insufficient purge flow

My OHC had error code 17 twice when the speedo failed. Why did I not think of this before! :D

Just get the speedo cable replaced and an don't forget the ECU reset (I'd prefer you get a hard reset via the scan tool), and you are set!

not quite done yet:

another problem cropped up this evening, started from home at around 10 PM to go somewhere and after driving about 6-7 KMs i noticed the temp. needle touching H, stopped the car, opened the hood and the coolant was boiling - no pipes bursted fortunately, figured out that radiator fan is not turning ON even when required, poured some cold water into radiator and slowly drove home keeping revvs under 1500. checked the fuse box and the radiator fuse (top right corner?) looks good.

will take it to a mechanic near my home tomorrow and see what it is upto.

Just called Arya Honda and they quoted 4500 for a paid service includes basic cleaning and change of engine oil filters etc.. Really basic stuff.. Plus diagnostics. Lol.

I normally pay 3000 to do all that at the local garage guy.Work is decent nothing to complain about.
When you say diagnostics do you mean using the obd scanner.What all is included in the cleanup.BTW what engine oil do you normally use in your OHC.

another update:

1. speedo cable was just loose, fixed it properly and speedometer is back in action again. i can, now, know how fast i am going.

2. radiator fan was good, AC fan had conked off. replaced the AC fan, but still fans won't come ON when engine was hot (they came ON properly when AC switched ON); found out that the expansion valve was jammed preventing the flow of coolant; fixed it and all was good again.

total cost - 3000 for AC fan, labour+misc - 600 rupee.

this is why i love this car, no funky electronic stuff, pure mechanicals and basic electronics. not much to go wrong.

I have a major problem in my 1999 OHC Type I 1.5 Exi. It has run for more than 144000 kms. In the first week of June, I had spent Rs. 45000 for replacing the drive shafts, brake pads, suspension overhaul and regular service. Apart from these changes the car has problems in wheel bearing and a leak in steering box. There are also few dents here and there on the car. Last week, when coming back home from shopping, I noticed something green splashed on the windscreen. I immediately checked the temperature meter and things looked normal. After some time, I noticed the needle in the temperature meter at its maximum. I immediately stopped and found the radiator pipe broken and the coolant was spilled all over the place. The Honda service center says the radiator has to be replaced. With all these problems, I decided to exchange the car and buy a Brio. The dealer said they have a buyer who can buy my car for a maximum of Rs. 85000. I am not happy with the price since I had sent more than half of that only the previous week. Now I am planning to replace the radiator and fix the other issues in stages. Is it wise to keep the car and fix it or sell it for a better price? I am a quite a bit confused.

you have already taken care of the brakes/suspension/drive shafts; engine of Honda is known to hold very long without requiring any work; get the radiator work done (preferably outside H.A.S.S, and at half cost than what they would quote). steering rack leak is a common problem in this version of honda city and can be fixed outside H.A.S.S for approx. 8k. by spending around 20-25k you'd get a perfectly alright car with no more stuff that would require attention. do not sell it for so cheap unless there are major problems with the car (rust, etc.) OR unless you need that money; alternatively you can give it to someone in your family.

Thanks for the advice. Would it be better to weld the radiator pipe or go for a replacement? The car right now is at the Honda service center since it was towed there. I am thinking of fixing (replacing) the radiator at H.A.S.S. and fix the other issues outside.

i would suggest that do not weld it, go for replacement and that would ensure peace of mind in the long run. how bad is the damage? and what is H.A.S.S quoting for the repair? if you have, post some pictures so others can comment.

H.A.S.S is typically best place to get the work done but most of the times their quotes are absurd (they quoted 32k for exhaust replacement, and 17k for clutch job to a friend of mine few weeks ago).

H.A.S.S. quoted 15k for replacement. The pipe is broken completely. I don't have a photo of it right now. I have attached a picture of a different radiator and marked the area where it is broken.

I second it too.. No point junking the car now since you've already done the major bits. So i would say its more sensible to keep it.

Btw I've been noticing an oil drip in my parking spot coming from the drivers side front bay.. Checking closely I can see it on the front right mount.. so when i took it to the Mech.. He's put it down to a steering oil leak...this was seconded by a slow grinding sound when turning tight at slow forward speeds. The steering oil level also was low..

Anyways,a per him, its a steering rack issue /oil seal leak..but he's saying its gonna cost nearly 6k to fix approx!! Is it that expensive?? An oil seal fix shouldn't be too expensive now or is it?? :-(

H.A.S.S will quote 24k for steering rack replacement.
local mechanic would just remove the steering rack and send it to a lathe/specialized workshop where new rubber seals would be put to the rack to stop the leak; cost quoted is absolutely correct OR i would say it is more in the lines of 7200-7500 that is typically quoted.
while you are at it, also get the tie rod ends checked.

Wow. Expensive indeed.. But why? And what\'s with Honda\'s insane quotes? Nearly thrice as much! Are they oblivious to reality??