[SS-Traveller]

Our Ciaz (The Ciazzler® | Our Nexa Blue Maruti-Suzuki Ciaz Petrol (Alpha)) has been leading a sheltered life, with not much driving and nothing to report. In 4 years and 9 months, it has only done 31,6xx km. I personally clean the car when required, and when I do it, I also inspect the bodywork and engine bay at the same time.

Back in October 2023, I detected rust on the front right-hand door sill (running board) and undersurface of the door. This was unusual, in that there has never been any accidental paint or metal damage, nor any repainting done to that area. And in all my experience of owning cars, I have not seen rusting occur in that area in many, many years, at least, not since the 1990s. (And no, the car has never been to any seaside or salt-laden area, nor been immersed in floodwaters).





















Curious and a little alarmed, I inspected the whole car minutely. Interestingly, there is no other sign of rust anywhere else - the other doors and running board areas, underbody, gutters, bonnet- and boot lid rain channels, insides of the front and rear fenders (which often accumulate dust, mud and leaves, and show rust). Nothing - all clean.

So I took the car to Maruti Service Master (JJ Impex) Okhla, New Delhi at the end of October, to show them the problem. Their Bodyshop person had a close look at the damage, took some pictures (in fact, those are the same pictures I am sharing on the forum). And I was told that they would take it up with MSIL for warranty cover / manufacturing defect.

Some days later, after I sent an email as follow-up to my visit of 27 October, I received a call to bring the car over once again. This time, an alleged paint specialist from Axalta had a look, and took another set of photographs. One week later, I received a reply email from MSM Customer Care, saying that according to the paint expert's report, the rusting issue is not a manufacturing defect. Apparently, the rusting has occurred because the problem of rusting of metal has arisen due to moisture/water accumulation and hard water. Very insightful, I might say! The email also mentioned that Your car work will be done on payment basis.

I decided to escalate this issue upwards, and wrote...

Maruti is not taking into account that the location of the rust is unusual; no other car shows rusting and perforation in a single location like this (also please note that no other door or body panel is rusted in this car); and there is no reason for water or hard water to accumulate in that area. The car is not located in a coastal area with high salt, and nor has it drowned in flood water. Therefore, this is not a normal wear-and-tear issue. The onus is on Maruti to determine whether it is a manufacturing defect or painting fault, but it is certainly not due to customer's fault or normal usage.

Once again, I received a reply, this time from someone in MSIL (not MSM). It said that upon inspection, it is observed that the alleged rusting/corrosion on right front door and running board issue is due external cause or factor. There is no defect/abnormality attributed to manufacture which was observed in this regard. Again, very insightful!

Of course, the customer management rulebook says a customer must always be blamed for anything that goes wrong. So MSIL told me, For better upkeep of the vehicle and rust prevention, may please refer “Appearance Care” section in Owner’s Manual & Service Booklet. Moreover, the required repairs are outside the purview of extended warranty in terms of clause 3(i), and hence the said repairs need to be carried out on payment basis. Yeah, right, I really need lessons on car maintenance from a booklet.

Most people would have stopped following up at this stage. Not me - I'm a little pig-headed, I suppose. I still had a lot of faith by Maruti to do the right thing. So I escalated the issue to the top as a last resort.

I am finally starting to lose faith and confidence in MSIL products after having used Maruti vehicles since 1986, and I am writing to you as a last recourse, regarding the matter of unusual rusting of my Maruti Ciaz Alpha... Of the 6 Maruti vehicles I have used extensively over the last 37+ years, not one has ever had a corrosion problem, whether similar or in a different area, except this Ciaz, one of Maruti's most premium vehicles at the time of purchase.

In my verbal & written interactions with Maruti's service department over the last 3 weeks and more, I have been repeatedly blamed of faulty maintenance for the rusting issue, as elucidated in the attached photographs. Maruti have washed their hands of their responsibility, as is evident from the email trail below. While I understand that paint damage may well cause corrosion, there has been no such damage in the area in question. There is no rust in any other area of the body of the vehicle - not even on similar areas on other doors/panels. Nor have I seen any other vehicle of similar age showing rust in that area, amongst the multitude of cars I've inspected out of curiosity. This vehicle has been carefully used & driven by me alone, has done just 31,000+ km, and has never been exposed to seaside / salty atmosphere.

Mr. ... has pointed out that Clause 3(i) of the extended warranty does not cover paintwork, bodywork and mouldings, water entry into the vehicle, corrosion of body parts, glass, Mirrors (inner & outer), lock cylinder & key & interior trims. It therefore appears that Maruti is not committed to provide paintwork or bodywork of sufficiently durable quality, and the onus of blame is always passed on to the owner / user. OTOH, it is remarkable that Toyota, whom Maruti is closely associated with, checks for rust & paint deterioration in their 12+-year-old cars, as is evident here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ml#post5650371 (Toyota Etios 1.5L Petrol : An owner's point of view. EDIT: 10+ years and 100,000+ kms up!).

I therefore leave it to your esteemed decision about whether the said corrosion is user-induced or is a paint & metallurgical defect at manufacturing stage. I am not seeking a minor discount on paid repair which has been offered to please me (as communicated to me over phone); however, if you consider this to be a paint / metallurgical defect, the rectification of this corrosion damage should be done as MSIL's responsibility.

Looking forward to your decision and reply.

Sent this email on a Sunday afternoon, to receive a call on Monday morning. They'd like to send another paint expert to my home to inspect the car, and its parking spot. Fair enough, and they're most welcome! No one came. End of the day, I received another call asking me to bring the car once again to MSM Okhla (some 15 km from my home) the next day. So off I went in the afternoon on the Tuesday.

This time, it was a paint expert from Nerolac, who arrived an hour behind schedule. He then proceeded to inspect the damage, as well as measure the paint thickness all over the bodywork with a DFT (Dry Film Thickness) meter.



And strangely enough, the paint thickness on the affected part of the running board was thicker than in other places, especially similar areas around the other doors. Of course, there was no repaint or panel damage there, apart from the rust.



They also took the car up on a lift to inspect the underbody, where there was no rust either.



In the meanwhile, I was told verbally right there that the right-hand front door would need replacement, and some special epoxy material would be used by the workshop to fix the rusting!

And then all was quiet for over a week, till I wrote another email:

At the time of inspection, I understand that there was a large discrepancy in the dry film thickness of paint in the area where the corrosion is occurring, despite there being no accidental damage or repainting done there. This may point to a defect at the time of manufacturing. I presume MSIL may not want to share the technical details with me, but I seek a rectification of the same.

How soon can I expect a resolution from your end, if at all?

A phone call the next day told me to wait just one more day. And 3 days later, MSIL finally refused to own responsibility and fix the rust. I received an email today from a senior person, which essentially said the same things I have been told earlier - but what is revealing is this:

...upon inspection patches of foreign compound/ Hard water accumulation found on rusting location and alleged rusting/corrosion on front RH door rusting is due to acid entrapment between door seal and side sill, resulting in paint damage in same pattern. Cause of rusting is foreign chemical / Hard water accumulation between weather strip and side sill areas. There is no defect/abnormality attributed to manufacture which was observed in this regard.

And there we are once again, blame the customer for the corrosion...

we understand that the vehicle has been plied for 4 years and 9 months since purchase. For better upkeep of the vehicle and rust prevention, may please refer “Appearance Care” section in Owner’s Manual & Service Booklet.
Moreover, the required repairs are outside the purview of extended warranty in terms of clause 3(i), and hence the said repairs need to be carried out on payment basis.
However, please be assured that the best possible support of will be provided by the workshop.

So patches of 'foreign compound' miraculously appeared and increased the paint thickess, hard water accumulated right there and nowhere else (I wish MSIL did a water hardness test for my water supply!), there was 'acid entrapment' there (which acid?), and of course, I don't know how to maintain my car!

So I shall be taking the car to my favoured FNG bodyshop (and not to MSM which wants to change the whole door) to fix the rust and prevent any recurrence. My faith and trust in Maruti products and quality of customer service has just tripped over and fallen flat on its face. I have had enough past experiences with rust in HM Ambassadors and Premier Presidents and Padminis decades ago, and I had thought that those days are over with the turn of the century - but I am obviously wrong!

What piques my curiosity is, what is the likelihood of such rusting happening in a car today, that is <5 years old? How many Team-BHP members can report rusting in a similar area which has never been damaged or repainted? And if this is not a manufacturing defect, what is it?

[PaddleShifter]

Sad to see such rusting in a supposedly premium car from Maruti. Thats why I have stopped taking extended warranties for these mass market cars. The warranty denial is a standard practice across segments.

To answer your queries:
- This is not normal and certainly not frequent especially here in North India (away from salty waters).
- Not common to see such rusting in cars under 5 years of age.
- Certainly an engineering issue that caused water retention in these areas. How much to expect from a manufacturer who provided rear windscreen washer on side opposite to that of the rear wiper. See this pic taken from Team-BHP ownership threads.



That said, atleast spares are available at parts distributors and one can service the car outside at FNGs. My suggestion is to get the car repaired at FNG and even for the door that needs to be replaced, get replacement parts from MGP parts outlet & get it painted at an FNG. I am sure the colour would stay true to the original finish much longer. The driver side door in my white S-Cross had to be replaced (unfortunately) and the new door is now getting yellowish already after 15 months. I had taken the car to Pasco bodyshop in Gurugram just so that repair quality is top notch. The outcome is nowhere what I expected. My brand new Punto was repainted at a TATA service center but even after 13 years, there is zero yellowing.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-...ml#post2029427 (My Fiat Punto MJD 90HP - 4 years & 51000 km EDIT: Now sold!)

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

So I shall be taking the car to my favoured FNG bodyshop (and not to MSM which wants to change the whole door) to fix the rust and prevent any recurrence.

If I were you, I would still go with replacing the door and painting it with all the surface preparation/sealing that it needs. The FNG might still do some tinkering but that's not going to last long on a door which has already rusted so badly.

As to why the rusting took place, I believe there was a poor tinkering job done without your knowledge. The only Maruti in our entire family which had a rusting issue was that of my uncle's whose Dzire had a hood panel repainted by a FNG and that started rusting badly in three years. Apart from that even though the same car had been washed in really hard water and there was scaling in all nooks and crannies, there hasn't been a single spec of rust on it in the last ten years of use.

[The Mechanic]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

And strangely enough, the paint thickness on the affected part of the running board was thicker than in other places, especially similar areas around the other doors. Of course, there was no repaint or panel damage there, apart from the rust.

Did you get any explanation from MSIL for this variation in paint thickness. (Apologies if I missed it while reading your post)

Also, it looks like a rusted Maruti Suzuki is not exactly a rare occurrence as per the following thread :-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post5665920 (Rusting problem on a 6-year old Maruti Ciaz)

[saket77]

Sad to see a relatively fresh car in this state. Close up shot of rust building up is awful.
Increase in paint thickness as measured by the 'paint expert' may point to a repair job that might have been done at the ASC of the dealership before the car was delivered to you. Who knows if there was a damage in transit before delivery which was repaired.
Running board repairs are always tricky but get it repaired at the FNG and should be good enough.

Regards,
Saket

[SixPistons]

A guy from Axalta also visited when I took up the repainted panel in my Brand New i20 N Line purchased in delhi earlier this year. Took a long time to get HMIL to show any interest and needless to say a level of trust has been breached beyond repair.

HMIL never grew the spine or gave enough t to respond back to me with their response on the matter based on the visit from Axalta guy. Nothing new there. However, for me, my Car’s door was replaced with a new door from a new i20 N Line in September eventually but I know that car got sold to someone else after some repairs.

My respect for HMIL further degraded, as they supported a partner into duping another one of their customers instead of taking stringent care that things are done right. Another day, Another disappointment.

Commendable effort to chase and get involvement from Maruti Suzuki to send another expert to look into this, especially with a DFT. HMIL folks were bold enough to say that a DFT meter cannot be trusted there’s worse than this out there.

It is clear this was no particular case of hard water or product damage. All other panels being ok was a very good indicator along with other information noted. Automobiles is a very unethically carried out business in our Country and car makers in particular (just as most corporates) are used to wash their hands off their mistakes and cover ups being caught.

[Jeroen]

Sorry to hear about your ordeal.

When I look at these images you shared I wonder if the problem is not coming from inside the door to start with. Water finding its way past window rubbers and scraper seal. Damaged water protection foil on the inside of the door.

Take the doorcard of and check on the inside. If it is wet inside, it is not a paint issue as such.

Good luck

Jeroen

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by PaddleShifter

- Certainly an engineering issue that caused water retention in these areas.

No water there. The drain holes are not blocked, and there's no muck inside.

That said, atleast spares are available at parts distributors and one can service the car outside at FNGs. My suggestion is to get the car repaired at FNG and even for the door that needs to be replaced, get replacement parts from MGP parts outlet & get it painted at an FNG. I am sure the colour would stay true to the original finish much longer. The driver side door in my white S-Cross had to be replaced (unfortunately) and the new door is now getting yellowish already after 15 months. I had taken the car to Pasco bodyshop in Gurugram just so that repair quality is top notch. The outcome is nowhere what I expected. My brand new Punto was repainted at a TATA service center but even after 13 years, there is zero yellowing.

I had a bootlid damage repainted at my FNG, and the left rear door repainted at MSM Okhla. The Nerolac specialist commented that the lustre on the boot lid paint is better than that on the left rear door.

Originally Posted by audioholic

If I were you, I would still go with replacing the door and painting it with all the surface preparation/sealing that it needs.

Not worth the trouble and expense. In 15 years, or less than 10 years from now, I'd need to sell or scrap the car. Probably sell it earlier. Till then, some rust-proofing and repainting will suffice.

As to why the rusting took place, I believe there was a poor tinkering job done without your knowledge. The only Maruti in our entire family which had a rusting issue was that of my uncle's whose Dzire had a hood panel repainted by a FNG and that started rusting badly in three years. Apart from that even though the same car had been washed in really hard water and there was scaling in all nooks and crannies, there hasn't been a single spec of rust on it in the last ten years of use.

Depends on the thoroughness of the job being done by the FNG, and the materials they use. I plan to supervise the process.

Originally Posted by The Mechanic

Did you get any explanation from MSIL for this variation in paint thickness. (Apologies if I missed it while reading your post)

Also, it looks like a rusted Maruti Suzuki is not exactly a rare occurrence as per the following thread :-

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post5665920 (Rusting problem on a 6-year old Maruti Ciaz)

Thanks for sharing that thread. Looks like Q4 of 2023 is a bad quarter for Marutis and rust. And yes, the explanation was interesting, as quoted earlier... patches of foreign compound/ Hard water accumulation found on rusting location and alleged rusting/corrosion on front RH door rusting is due to acid entrapment between door seal and side sill, resulting in paint damage in same pattern. Cause of rusting is foreign chemical / Hard water accumulation between weather strip and side sill areas. There is no defect/abnormality attributed to manufacture... So it was a foreign hand that did it! Or my car had an acid attack!

Originally Posted by saket77

Sad to see a relatively fresh car in this state. Close up shot of rust building up is awful.
Increase in paint thickness as measured by the 'paint expert' may point to a repair job that might have been done at the ASC of the dealership before the car was delivered to you. Who knows if there was a damage in transit before delivery which was repaired.
Running board repairs are always tricky but get it repaired at the FNG and should be good enough.

The panel doesn't look to have suffered any crash damage (I'd have noticed it at PDI anyway), but what happened there is beyond my understanding - and obviously MSIL's.

Originally Posted by SixPistons

A guy from Axalta also visited when I took up the repainted panel in my Brand New i20 N Line purchased in delhi earlier this year. Took a long time to get HMIL to show any interest and needless to say a level of trust has been breached beyond repair.

HMIL never grew the spine or gave enough t to respond back to me with their response on the matter based on the visit from Axalta guy. Nothing new there. However, for me, my Car’s door was replaced with a new door from a new i20 N Line in September eventually but I know that car got sold to someone else after some repairs.

They actually did that? Swapped out a door from a new car? Wow!

Commendable effort to chase and get involvement from Maruti Suzuki to send another expert to look into this, especially with a DFT. HMIL folks were bold enough to say that a DFT meter cannot be trusted there’s worse than this out there.

Yes, I am a little confused why they needed two experts from 2 different paint companies (Axalta and Nerolac) to assess the damage and give separate expert opinions.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Sorry to hear about your ordeal.
...
Take the doorcard of and check on the inside. If it is wet inside, it is not a paint issue as such.

Taking the door card off was not suggested by any of the paint or bodyshop experts, but we did check the drain holes carefully - and there was no blockage, no water accumulation and no muck there.

Maruti people called after this thread went online, and I was told the estimate for replacing + repainting the door and repainting the damaged sill would be ₹18,000, and they can offer a goodwill discount to bring the price down to ₹14,000. Let's see what my FNG quotes. Somehow, I've lost the unwavering faith I had in MSIL's customer care and workmanship quality of the MSM bodyshop (especially since the quality of paint on the boot lid by my FNG is better than what MSM did to the rear left door), and don't want to leave the car there for a few days while they do whatever they please with it.

[SixPistons]

I understand your pain. It does not feel good to be fleeced, especially when you pay upwards of a million INR for these products.

Yes, I pushed for a brand new factory painted door as any other non factory painted door wouldn’t have the right finish. Initially they claimed it will be a demo vehicle. I know it's not going to be a demo vehicle because they covered the Engine and VIN Numbers both while I was getting the door changed. I cannot think of one legitimate reason to cover those details on a demo Vehicle.

No FNG or ASC can match the factory paint. They can be good, Or for instance in your case, it can be really good as an off chance as in the case of your boot lid.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

What piques my curiosity is, what is the likelihood of such rusting happening in a car today, that is <5 years old? How many Team-BHP members can report rusting in a similar area which has never been damaged or repainted? And if this is not a manufacturing defect, what is it?

This is rusting in a friend's 2020 Baleno. Although the pictures were clicked recently, the issue surfaced when the car was less than a year old. And as expected, he got the same standard reply from MSIL.

I'm also having some issue with lamps on my XL6 and got a similar standard reply that I should read that article in user manual. Briefly posted here: Link (Rusting problem on a 6-year old Maruti Ciaz)

[Carpainter]

In our Innova 2014 model (now sold) there was similar kind of rusting in similar places but on all the doors. Even there was rust in the upper side of the doors near the roof where the rubber door beadings are attached. That car too never went sea side and didn't face salt water. It used to be washed every day. We never took it to Toyota for this issue though as I knew it'd be difficult to convince any OEM to take the blame and repair it for free but when I think of it, it feels strange and probably was a manufacturing defect because no other car in our household had rusting issue before since ambassador days. My City is of similar age and has been to sea side 4-5 times but it doesn't have rusting yet. Although I don't wash it daily.

Would like to know from owners of VW/Skoda whether they had faced similar issues and how was their resolution as VW used to offer 6 years antirust warranty. Don't know if they still offer it here.

[Mr.Wanderer]

This looks like a standard issue across the automotive manufacturers. My Ford 2014 Figo started developing the rust issues after 6 years on all the doors . I am looking at fixing them now as more delay can worsen the rusting situation.

My biggest worry is, if the body shop did not do a good job in removing the rust, the issue will pop up again. Is there a standard procedure to be followed while removing the rust and repainting?

[scorpian]

Originally Posted by Mr.Wanderer

This looks like a standard issue across the automotive manufacturers. My Ford 2014 Figo started developing the rust issues after 6 years on all the doors . I am looking at fixing them now as more delay can worsen the rusting situation.

My biggest worry is, if the body shop did not do a good job in removing the rust, the issue will pop up again. Is there a standard procedure to be followed while removing the rust and repainting?

Steps to follow:
Removal of superficial rust as much as possible.
Application of rust converter.
Primer
Paint
If inner panels then after paint an anti-rust and cavity protection coating.

[Ravi Parwan]

This is worse than what I experienced on my 2017 Baleno. This shows the blatant cost cutting in manufacturing from auto OEMs.

In my car, I replaced passenger front door while the driver door was cleaned and repainted. The repainted door showed rust issues again in less than a year.

There are some rust convertor coatings available online. Has anyone used them and can share feedback?

[GTO]

If you argue with your premium customer (Ciaz is / was a top of the line Maruti), you have already lost the battle. Own up to your mistakes, bend over backward and keep your car owner happy.

This is very cheap cost-cutting from Maruti. Not just in terms of product, but also in terms of after-sales service. One of the main reasons people buy a Maruti is peace-of-the-mind, and they're really killing it with such cheapness.

This is the primary reason why Maruti cannot think or sell or succeed beyond the mainstream VFM segments. They simply don't have the quality, R&D capability or commitment.