Pumpe-Duse diesel technology as against better known CRDi

androdev · 9th January 2008, 23:14

PD can match or beat CRDI in terms of FE, drive (power torque etc), tolerance to bad fuel which are primary engine characterics.

CRDI is better in terms of cost, emissions, noise which are IMHO important but secondary.

i am sure CRDI will get there soon but not yet there.

Toureg PD got too many pumps thats why it got CRDI first not because CRDI superior engineering (as of now)

i am the first one to say CRDI is the future. but it first solved manufacturers (cost) and govt (emissions) concerns. yet to fully please the driver like PD. it will though.

BUSA · 9th January 2008, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnt.

I dint know that the Octy 1.9 TDi is a next gen crdi.

Its not a CRDi, its a TDi, which is different from CRDi as well as PD.

burnt. · 9th January 2008, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUSA

Its not a CRDi, its a TDi, which is different from CRDi as well as PD.

Man, I was being sarcastic.

abhibh · 10th January 2008, 01:41

VW have Common rail engines which they use in Audis. They are still marketed as TDi or Clean TDi

AFAIK the 4.2l and 30.l TDi in Audis are Common Rail units and A4 also have common rail now as they developed 2.0 Common rail unit.

As for technology it depends upon how one uses it. PD costs more than CRD but overall PD is at par with CRD technology. But still CRD has edge.

rajtheindian · 10th January 2008, 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

I don't understand why Skoda is giving the Pumpe-Duse diesel technology to India when VW itself is moving away from it to Common Rail. I read a report on it recently.

Are they dumping the technology on us? Or maybe its cost considerations.

Pumpe-Duse tech has some advantages over common rail, one of which is better adaptivity to bad fuel which is a must in India. Someone needs to do a neck to neck study with the DDiS. I also learned that Pumpe-Duse engines produces better torque than its common rail counterpart. Any info?

This may be because each cylinder head has an injector or in other words each of them have individual Pump, which makes it delivering better torque but sadly they will not be able to meet the emission standards, hence PD is replaced with CRDI

rajtheindian · 10th January 2008, 06:04

VW is moving away from PD as it is not able to meet the emission standards, so in europe and US they are shifting to CRDI engines, in india still they can manage with their PD

ajmat · 10th January 2008, 10:03

A lot of people are wary of second hand crdi engines in Europe due to potential maintenance costs and effects of misfueling - puting in petrol by mistake.

swageo · 10th January 2008, 12:20

One of the reason why I dropped the plan for buying Laura is considering the fate of PD. Here's the my version of the story

PD can produce more torque, and it has less pollution as better atomization can be achieved at 30,000 PSI. But I couldn't find why still it couldn't meet Euro 4/5 norms, when crdi could meet.

PD produce more noise, and vibration. Opening/Closing of individual pump results this extra noise/vibration.

PD in Laura has Solenoid controlled injectors. VW has replaced this tech with Piezoelectric controller in some newer models.

PD is more expensive to manufacture and refinement is difficult. Coupled with this, inability to control pollution led VW abandon this and move on to crdi.

VW put lot of money in developing PD, so it has to dump it some where, and its India.

tadukuttan · 10th January 2008, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmat

A lot of people are wary of second hand crdi engines in Europe due to potential maintenance costs and effects of misfueling - puting in petrol by mistake.

Hey ajmat, are you saying that putting in petrol into a PD/TDi car is okay? Of course, I have not tried it, but I would imagine that petrol going into any diesel engine would have the same disastrous consequences?

BUSA · 10th January 2008, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

Hey ajmat, are you saying that putting in petrol into a PD/TDi car is okay? Of course, I have not tried it, but I would imagine that petrol going into any diesel engine would have the same disastrous consequences?

If petrol is put into any diesel engine it can be disastrous, whether its PD, CRDi or old school TD

sujaylahiri · 10th January 2008, 21:30

I don't care much about CRDi or PD, all I know is that the Golf TDi with the PD technology (100 bhp) in Canada gives 46 mpg in the city and 61 mpg on the highway, and that is simply astonishing.

The hybrids have a lot of catching up to do now.

jerish666 · 10th January 2008, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

I don't care much about CRDi or PD, all I know is that the Golf TDi with the PD technology (100 bhp) in Canada gives 46 mpg in the city and 61 mpg on the highway, and that is simply astonishing.

The hybrids have a lot of catching up to do now.

with this.I think it has 2.0L engine.

BUSA · 10th January 2008, 22:02

46 mpg is something like 19kmpl, which is truly amazing.

ajmat · 10th January 2008, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

Hey ajmat, are you saying that putting in petrol into a PD/TDi car is okay? Of course, I have not tried it, but I would imagine that petrol going into any diesel engine would have the same disastrous consequences?

Neither is okay. suppose you pt a little bit of petrol in a TDi car, you could get a away by draining the petrol off or filling the tank up with diesel (if you put around 5 litres).
In a CRDi, the tolerances are so fine that the petrol with dissolve the lubracity provided by the diesel oil

sujaylahiri · 11th January 2008, 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerish666

with this.I think it has 2.0L engine.

It has the same 1.9L TDi as before, except that after adding the Pumpe Duse technology in 2004, they bumped up the peak power to 100bhp and peak torque to 177 ft lbs. The older one had 90 bhp and 155 ft lbs of torque.

Oh and it's pronounced as "pump-ah du-sah".

9th January 2008, 23:14	#16
androdev Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 3,097 Thanked: 22,340 Times	PD can match or beat CRDI in terms of FE, drive (power torque etc), tolerance to bad fuel which are primary engine characterics. CRDI is better in terms of cost, emissions, noise which are IMHO important but secondary. i am sure CRDI will get there soon but not yet there. Toureg PD got too many pumps thats why it got CRDI first not because CRDI superior engineering (as of now) i am the first one to say CRDI is the future. but it first solved manufacturers (cost) and govt (emissions) concerns. yet to fully please the driver like PD. it will though. Last edited by androdev : 9th January 2008 at 23:33.
	() Thanks

10th January 2008, 01:41	#19
abhibh Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Back in the HOOD near you! Posts: 2,768 Thanked: 39 Times	VW have Common rail engines which they use in Audis. They are still marketed as TDi or Clean TDi AFAIK the 4.2l and 30.l TDi in Audis are Common Rail units and A4 also have common rail now as they developed 2.0 Common rail unit. As for technology it depends upon how one uses it. PD costs more than CRD but overall PD is at par with CRD technology. But still CRD has edge.
	() Thanks

10th January 2008, 06:04	#21
rajtheindian BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Syracuse, US Posts: 247 Thanked: 7 Times	VW is moving away from PD as it is not able to meet the emission standards, so in europe and US they are shifting to CRDI engines, in india still they can manage with their PD
	() Thanks

10th January 2008, 10:03	#22
ajmat Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 14,864 Thanked: 27,976 Times View My Garage	A lot of people are wary of second hand crdi engines in Europe due to potential maintenance costs and effects of misfueling - puting in petrol by mistake.
	() Thanks

10th January 2008, 12:20	#23
swageo BANNED Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 323 Thanked: 31 Times	One of the reason why I dropped the plan for buying Laura is considering the fate of PD. Here's the my version of the story PD can produce more torque, and it has less pollution as better atomization can be achieved at 30,000 PSI. But I couldn't find why still it couldn't meet Euro 4/5 norms, when crdi could meet. PD produce more noise, and vibration. Opening/Closing of individual pump results this extra noise/vibration. PD in Laura has Solenoid controlled injectors. VW has replaced this tech with Piezoelectric controller in some newer models. PD is more expensive to manufacture and refinement is difficult. Coupled with this, inability to control pollution led VW abandon this and move on to crdi. VW put lot of money in developing PD, so it has to dump it some where, and its India.
	() Thanks

10th January 2008, 21:30	#26
sujaylahiri BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North America Posts: 960 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	I don't care much about CRDi or PD, all I know is that the Golf TDi with the PD technology (100 bhp) in Canada gives 46 mpg in the city and 61 mpg on the highway, and that is simply astonishing. The hybrids have a lot of catching up to do now.
	() Thanks

10th January 2008, 22:02	#28
BUSA Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,130 Thanked: 20 Times View My Garage	46 mpg is something like 19kmpl, which is truly amazing.
	() Thanks