Team-BHP - The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

I too am awaiting my call from Fortune Powai for these updations. My vehicle was delivered to me in March 08. Fortune Powai is presently in the dark but once they receive the intimation from TML they'll call up all owners concerned for sure. DaiusPitar, I'll give you a pm once I get any intimation on the same.

@freewheelburnin

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But if you want to see where the power has gone, please rev the vehicle to 3000 RPM and you will notice the smooth power delivery and a good surge of power transferred to the seat of your pants.

Nice way of putting things. :)
Yes it does. But the turbo kick is missing as of now at the lower rpm.

@ram.west

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Hey prowler, which TASC did you get the retrofit done??

I did this in ECR Corncorde. As usual, they didn't clean the car. The front wheels had been removed when they did the work on the engine and refitted. So they look very dirty.

@Rahulk76

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Are you sure.. What we have seen around on this forum is that the power delivery is extremely linear now starting all the way from 1300-1400 until 2700 rpm. Can you do a ecu reset and try again ?

I will tell you after a couple of days of using the car, the ECU seems to have learnt my style. It delivers the power at lower rpm now. The engine is a bit noisy now. The turbo kick is missing - but still the engine is torquey as it used to.

The 2.2 liter VTT engine is always peppy and eager. A small issue is it sounds like a roar when revved. This is noticeable now after the software upgradation.

What is the view from other members ?

As I had pointed out before July 2009 batch Safari's feel more refined and have a linear power delivery unlike older version wherein we wait for the turbo to kick in and then charge ahead.

Wont the guys at TASS be able to do this? ie, remap the ECU without input from Pune guys?

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Originally Posted by Prowler (Post 1491330)

I did this in ECR Corncorde. As usual, they didn't clean the car. The front wheels had been removed when they did the work on the engine and refitted. So they look very dirty.

The 2.2 liter VTT engine is always peppy and eager. A small issue is it sounds like a roar when revved. This is noticeable now after the software upgradation.

What is the view from other members ?

Yes, the engine noise has increased. "roar' is a good way to describe it. I, personally, was happy earlier as the engine noise had starting reducing with increased running.

Yes they did not clean my car either. Mentioned that this is not part of the deal.

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Originally Posted by jkdas (Post 1491404)

Wont the guys at TASS be able to do this? ie, remap the ECU without input from Pune guys?

From what I understand TASS does not reflash the ECU. Delphi guys do it.

With the new remap, the car's behaviour will reflect the way you drive.People who rev up the engine normally will notice more smoother power but people who try to restrict to 2000 RPM range will find that power has reduced.Only by using a larger rpm range can the latest fuel maps be used effectively.My suggestion is to try different RPMs during upshift.I now shift at 3000 RPM when i need the surge.Else i shift at 2000 RPM.

Also Engine Noise levels have increased slightly after remap.In other words i notice that engine takes longer time to reach the optimum operating point, after which it goes really silent.Please check the idling sound and sound during running when engine is cold and when the temperature needle comes to middle.

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Originally Posted by freewheelburnin (Post 1493595)

The function of Glow plugs in a diesel engine is to heat the engine right?If that is the case then why does the the car take a few minutes to come to optimum temperature?Do any gurus have the answer?

The glow-lugs are only to aid the starting.
On Direct injection engines (Direct Injection common rail) glow plugs though assisting initial ingnition (starting) can also be dispensed with (as in the case of glow plug failure).
You may then have to crank the engine longer but still many cranks lesser than in an in-direct ingition engine (a-la Sierra - earlier Sumos)

Glow plugs do not heat up the full engine:). On cold engines ignition with air - compression (Diesels are compression ignition engine) takes longer since the intial few compressions do not really heat up the cylinder to that extent, hence glow plugs are used. That is why Diesel engines must attain optimum temperatures as soon as possible.

Thanks !!! That was quick :)

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Originally Posted by kingshukt (Post 1493631)

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Originally Posted by Prowler (Post 1491330)

The 2.2 liter VTT engine is always peppy and eager. A small issue is it sounds like a roar when revved. This is noticeable now after the software upgradation.

This "roar" was unsettling me. So I decided to investigate.

I found out that the metal plate below the radiator - the "radiator bottom guard - a la stone guard" was loose and a few bolts missed out.
This guard would rattle when banged - hit with hand.
I then remembered physics and resonance - the AC fan and radiator cooling fan are directly above this guard.

I took it to TASS and made them remove the guard and then fit it back on with all bolts and ensured that the bolts were tightened.

Viola! - the "roar" had died down to the original levels. The safari now sounds much better.
I understood that TASS had removed this guard and engine bottom cover for the timing belt upgradation. Most likely they had made a sloppy job of putting it all back.

A tck-tck sound (like belt slipping) which was heard ONLY when cold starting (and for the initial few moments) had also disappeared.

Got the updates on Monday. Was finally flashed:D. That is the ECU. It was done by the service guy. The software mentioned DDS Flasher. First he pluged in a laptop. This checked want was missing, hence the type of software updates that was required. After this he pluged on his PC on a trolly. The DDS Flasher recongnised my vehicle and updated. It took about 5 min. after which the car was rebooted ie the engine was switched off and after 30 sec he switched it on again.

Other than this the timing belt, some covers etc were changed free of cost.

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Originally Posted by Country Road (Post 1497297)

Congrats on being flashed.:uncontrol Err I mean your ECU.rl:

Bumping the thread to see if there is any feedback from those who got the Updates done...My feedback below.

Driveability: Better pickup in 2nd/ 3rd gears. Less frequent Gear changes i.e more linear torque curve.

Turbo Lag or lack of it: As mentioned in other posts, turbo kicks in earlier.

Fuel Efficiency improvement: I've seen a drop in FE from a constant 9kpl, am getting 8.5 or near about. 100% city driving with aircon on all the time.

Increase / decrease in black smoke: I've seen a marked increase in the black smoke under acceleration. With Shell diesel its very pronounced, with IndianOil, its less. Got the AirFilter cleaned ( no red band ), still no change. A friendly neighbourhood TASS wants to check EGR and CAT to find the cause of the black smoke...

Engine noise : I feel the Krr noise is more now, will need to get it checked.

cheers!
Srini

Driveability: Better pickup in 2nd/ 3rd gears. Less frequent Gear changes i.e more linear torque curve. (Yes)

Turbo Lag or lack of it: No Turbo Lag

Fuel Efficiency improvement: I've seen a drop in FE by a KM or so in the same driving conditions.

Increase / decrease in black smoke: I have decided to stay off shell diesel for good. somehow, i find Indian Oil Coorp diesel from coco a little better

Engine noise : I hear a kind of gurgles as I havent felt or heard krrr. It wasnt there before for sure..But is it the same ?

Tonite I have crossed 7500kms out of which 2000km were on old ecu firmware and rest on new firmware :)

Thnx.