[Raccoon]

^^^Yes, I know... as I said you should be able to get it somewhere/somehow. But have never had to buy coolant over the counter till date.

[ssh1979]

I had to revive this thread.

Dear Team,
So I am planning this long trip and taking necessary precautions as well as taking things I might need. I am thinking of taking along a bottle of coolant (ok, additive) and a bottle of distilled water just in case I run into the (much dreaded) over-heating mishap (I don't have pleasant memories of those Amby days or even the Maruti Zen days). I now want to check with my dear BHPians-

1- Is that necessary?

2- My owner's manual doesn't give even a remote hint of the recommended additive for my vehicle, whereas it is very specific for engine oil. So which one do I buy? Mine's a 3.0L diesel turbo. However, the OM does say the following about the additive requirements:

* should be ethylene glycol based

* should not contain alcohol, methanol, borate or silicate

So, should any additive at petrol bunks or over the counter work?

---
Re: "topping up" (not "changing"), the OM does give some clear instructions on what has been debated so far:
* don't add ONLY water. Always mix with additive
* use only soft demineralised water. The reason for this is interesting: it says the water with minerals cuts down the effectiveness of additive
* when the engine is cool, if the mixture is at or near LOW in reservior, add to reservoir to bring the level to FULL. The OM recommends doing this only ONCE a YEAR, so I'm probably being overly precautious here for this long trip.


What I have learnt or understood about this sealed system in modern cars is below; please correct my understanding if this is wrong:

- Only a failure that causes the pressure to drop (blown gasket or broken pipes) leads the system to fail and the engine to overheat -> seizure

- Otherwise, the system works like a beauty and you don't have to fiddle with it, except for that ONCE in a YEAR topup as recommended in the OM

- If the system breaks, use the mixture (if possible) or water to top up the reservoir (when engine is hot) or both reservoir and radiator (when engine is cold), to drive it STRAIGHT to the place where they can fix your cooling system. Anything else are not solutions. They maybe temporary fixes.

- How do we know the cooling system has broken down? I am not sure I've learned it right, but from reading through this thread:

- those weekly checkups (when cold), let's say weekends

- plus the one suggested by Gansan (when hot): check at regular intervals when engine is hot (weekdays)

- "Change" (drain and refill) only as per advice from an SE, and do it at a place where you are confident they know what they are doing

Cheers!

[Thad E Ginathom]

I think your answers to your own questions are exactly right. If the reservoir level is correctly between min and max, and the concentration of additive is correct (this is vital if you going anywhere where the temperature may be freezing --- although that would require a very long trip from Chennai ) then you can check and forget.

If there is a failure, of thermostat, pump, or piping, then it would take more than a can of water to rescue the situation anyway.

How do you know something has failed? Don't cars still have temperature gauges? I ask, because I'm embarrassed to say that I don't remember the last time I looked. <Blush> But my brain would, I hope, still register any needle pointing to a red area.

[ssh1979]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

How do you know something has failed? Don't cars still have temperature gauges? I ask, because I'm embarrassed to say that I don't remember the last time I looked. <Blush> But my brain would, I hope, still register any needle pointing to a red area.

Ha ha Thad, thy British homour, melikes

Well, someone, I think Anup, did mention that the temperature gauge is of no use if all or most of the mixture has gone out of the system. If that be the case then routine hot and cold check-ups is the "failsafe" plan, no?

The temperature gauge is the only thing I look at all the time while driving, the fuel needle and well, speedo come after

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by ssh1979

Well, someone, I think Anup, did mention that the temperature gauge is of no use if all or most of the mixture has gone out of the system. If that be the case then routine hot and cold check-ups is the "failsafe" plan, no?

That happens only during a catastrophic loss of the entire contents of the radiator and no amount of coolant you carry will help you. During partial/gradual loss of coolant, the temp gauge is all the warning you will ever need. So if your car is in good condition, just ensure all fluid levels are up to the max mark before you start and enjoy the drive.

Just carry half a litre of engine oil with you if it is going to be a very long drive, and you are using some oil other than the ones used in your car's A.S.S. In case the coolant reservoir needs top-up, just use a fresh bottle of Kinley/Aquafina!

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by ssh1979

The temperature gauge is the only thing I look at all the time while driving, the fuel needle and well, speedo come after

I just had a feeling that I had read somewhere that manufacturers weren't bothering with temperature gauges any longer. I might have dreamt it!

Once upon a time, cars had ammeters. I think that was in the days before the much more reliable alternator took over from the inferior dynamo (not that I could tell the technical difference) that preceded it. Similarly, modern, sealed, cooling systems are greatly superior. The sight of a car, stopped by the roadside with steam coming from the bonnet is rare these days. Rare ---but not non-existent. More common in the hills and mountains?

[sgiitk]

Back to the original topic. Coolant is invariably Ethylene Glycol based with addition of anti-corrosive agents, lubricants, etc. The table has been mentioned by me in Post #75 here and I have now managed to get the chart (unfortunately in °F) and the table (XYdatasource - Fundamental Research Data at Your Fingertips) which are shown here. See that the freezing point is NOT the lowest at 100% Glycol but at around 65%. So for the majority of us the issue is protection, and not the anti-freeze properties. (You can also see the data in °C as well at Ethylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

[longford]

Yikes.

Just this Sunday, I noticed that my coolant container was empty and rushed to a nearest petrol pump. Bought a 1 litre BP MAK coolant and poured it straight into the container till the full mark.

Now, I happened to see this thread and am confused what to do. Should I add more water in that container? Or should I just carry on?

I don't understand chemical science too well , so it will be great, if you could give me the advice/directive straight.

Thanks

[Gansan]

^^Open the coolant reservoir, siphon out 2/3rd of the coolant and add plain drinking water (Bisleri/Aquafina/Kinley) till the maximum mark. While you are at it, have the coolant level checked at the radiator too when it is cold. If you are unsure how to do this, take it to the A.S.S.

[Thad E Ginathom]

In cold countries, any service station would have a tool to test the specific gravity of the mix, and it would be a trivial job to drain some off and add water to get the right dilution.

When was your last service? They should have checked the levels then. Why would you have lost all that coolant since? It is that question, rather than the water/additive percentage, that makes me suggest that you get the whole cooling system checked out.

In the meantime, I would not add water above the max mark. The reservoir is supposed to have room for expansion.

<Cross-posted with Gansan>

[longford]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

In cold countries, any service station would have a tool to test the specific gravity of the mix, and it would be a trivial job to drain some off and add water to get the right dilution.

When was your last service? They should have checked the levels then. Why would you have lost all that coolant since? It is that question, rather than the water/additive percentage, that makes me suggest that you get the whole cooling system checked out.

In the meantime, I would not add water above the max mark. The reservoir is supposed to have room for expansion.

<Cross-posted with Gansan>

I agree. I usually do a sunday checking myself every 2-3 weeks but in the last couple of months, it got slipped up due to my work schedule and the continuous rains. But even I found it strange I had an empty tank! My co-bro says it must be a leak, given the fact that my car has been a hot favorite with rats, and they, having chewed my wires at least 3 times in different locations. Must be the black sexy color that must be luring them, I guess ;-) But for the moment, the tank is on my watch list. Just not sure, I can do the take-out-coolant-add-water stuff. :-)

But,seriously, are there any adverse effects to look out for other than the fact that the cooling temp will not be as low as the one with water mixed in it?

[sgiitk]

@longford; I will not bother. Have a good look around and make sure that you do not have any tell tale leaks at the hose attachments. I just top up with good old water from the tap! The small dilution does not matter. Also, in any case coolant is sent into the tank when the engine gets hot and sucked back when it gets cold. So the contents of the radiator and the reservoir get mixed gradually.

[ssh1979]

Bump.

Where does one buy a bottle of Golden Cruiser? In Chennai please. And has any one tried this: S-CCI India

[sudharma]

[quote=DarkEraser;1013293]
Points regarding Coolants
( if these are repeats, pls excuse me).

Concentration of Golden Cruizer Coolant ( anti-Freeze) for Maruthi is specified as 30% coolant and 70% demineralised water.

Make a bottle of 30-70 mixture and use it for topping up the coolant reservoir. And not with just water. This way the coolant mixture will always be at the correct concentration.

Don't use 100% coolant in the engine as this will make the Engine run at a higher temperature and cooling system pressure than the design temperature and pressure.

Never use Tap water to make up the coolant mixture. The minerals in the Tap water will deteriorate the coolant additives and corrode the Aluminium Cylinder head and Cylinder Block of modern vehicles. Old vehicles have cast Irom Block and Heads which have very good resistance to corrosion and hence any kind of water was not a problem. One can use the frost from your fridge or Rain water (collected after a few minute after the rain started) as alternative to buying demineralized water.Also if you have a reverse osmosis water purifier, this water is also good for mixing the coolant.

If the cooling system is working normally, then the coolant level in the reservoir will be near Min. when cold and near Max. when hot.

These are general guidelines.

[carboy]

[quote=sudharma;2604258]

Originally Posted by DarkEraser

Points regarding Coolants
( if these are repeats, pls excuse me).

Concentration of Golden Cruizer Coolant ( anti-Freeze) for Maruthi is specified as 30% coolant and 70% demineralised water.

Make a bottle of 30-70 mixture and use it for topping up the coolant reservoir. And not with just water. This way the coolant mixture will always be at the correct concentration.

Don't use 100% coolant in the engine as this will make the Engine run at a higher temperature and cooling system pressure than the design temperature and pressure.

Never use Tap water to make up the coolant mixture. The minerals in the Tap water will deteriorate the coolant additives and corrode the Aluminium Cylinder head and Cylinder Block of modern vehicles. Old vehicles have cast Irom Block and Heads which have very good resistance to corrosion and hence any kind of water was not a problem. One can use the frost from your fridge or Rain water (collected after a few minute after the rain started) as alternative to buying demineralized water.Also if you have a reverse osmosis water purifier, this water is also good for mixing the coolant.

Is demineralized water the same thing you put in the battery - because I read that's not good to use as coolant toping. Most dimineralization is done using some kind of deionization & that's not the best thing for coolant topping. You need distilled water - distilled water can also be used for battery, but that's not what's available commercially.