Swift DDIS Turbo issues: Report & Resolution thread

Jaggu · 8th May 2009, 23:18

@ripper: you have a bust turbo with bust turbo seal, plain and simple! Replacement needed. Regarding maf sensor and all, detailed reply from pc later tomorrow from lappy.

architect · 9th May 2009, 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Could you please get some more details from dealer about this oil, what grade and what spec? Or just the actual manufacturer and name.

Am going for my 22.5 k service on Sunday. Will check in detail. The oil is dispatched to ASC from Fiat Pune. Hence all the mystery about it.

But I know about using fully synthetic Selenia in Linea MJD from PUG and it seems to be correct information.

Jomz · 9th May 2009, 03:18

@ ripper
I assume that you have a intake airpressure and temperature sensor. If you run with a clogged filter you should be able to see it in the sensor readings. I dunno about MAF, never had one on the diesels which i tested.

One more point. The bus which has the issue of turbo seals busting because of a clogged Airfilter was doing Chennai-Ooty. The low air pressures in ooty also caused the vaccum issue to be more severe.

Ripper if you keep this in account- you should maybe think whether you did any trip to the hills before you had the turbo started acting up.

@jaggu this happened in real life on a bus, and the turbo's for 5litre+ diesel engines are much bigger than a 1.3l turbo.This makes the seals bigger.(Larger safety factors for Commercial intercitybus application) The application required 600kms run everyday it was one of the best set of turbo's which any OEM whould give. I'm hazy about the details- but the customer created soo much ruckus so that the R&D (not marketing) had to look into it. And the turbo failed twice before pinpointing the problem.

The bus engine did not have any EGR.

9th May 2009, 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by humyum

Did the Test today.3rd Gear, 1500 rpm till 3000 rpm as suggested

Thanks rohan. will probably do my run on sunday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jomz

@ ripper
I assume that you have a intake airpressure and temperature sensor. If you run with a clogged filter you should be able to see it in the sensor readings. I dunno about MAF, never had one on the diesels which i tested.

One more point. The bus which has the issue of turbo seals busting because of a clogged Airfilter was doing Chennai-Ooty. The low air pressures in ooty also caused the vaccum issue to be more severe.

Ripper if you keep this in account- you should maybe think whether you did any trip to the hills before you had the turbo started acting up.

I currently have just a boost pressure gauge, but MASS are always happy to let me use their tech2 for short spins and testing. can get readings of IAT and air pressure from there.

I do hill drives almost weekly if I'm not on call, sundays, just for the heck of it. these are full on pedal to metal runs lasting 2hrs one way, the return journeys are usually more sedate because ambient temperatures are higher and traffic starts building . the proper climbs are only for 16 kms though and the altitude is 3000ft at its peak

After the last sunday ghat drive, I feltthe car slower on my morning commute, but that seemed to be only psychological. Car normally is faster after it gets good ripping

hell_rider · 9th May 2009, 12:20

bit late to jump in to this thread, but i am having the exact same experience bala is having on my indica tcic.

earlier the car used to leap forward when the turbo kicked in. you could feel the push. now not anymore. not that i feel a loss of power. just like described, the power delivery seems more linear.

the TASS people couldn't diagnose anything. i went to bosch. the guy took a test drive and said the turbo is kicking in later. he did an adjustment and told it should be better now. its still not the same however.

i had almost forgotten about it, as it wasn't really being a problem in terms of power loss per se. but now after coming across this thread, i am keen to see what the cause could be in my particular case.

i am planning to go back there and do a detailed investigation.

will let you guys know if anything productive comes out.

ciao,
hell_rider

vibhu_f430 · 10th May 2009, 23:16

Guys,

My car has done 13k kms, and Iam facing very similar issues on my Vdi . The turbo 'kick' starts at 2200 RPM now instead of 1800rpm , But the wooooosh is still there. !!
I'll try cleaning the air filter tomorrow and check again. Hopefully its only a clogged air filter !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bala80

Ripper - My car definitely doesnt feel slower, however i havent validated this by driving another car back to back. I will do so soon, and will update this thread. Thanks for your inputs here.

Hello Mr.Bala,

I would love to meet up to do some back-to-back testing mate.
Think we are facing similar issues.

My friend has got a 4k kms MINT Vdi with no Turbo issues .. So we can get a clearer picture ?!

Cheers !

humyum · 10th May 2009, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by vibhu_f430

Guys,

My car has done 13k kms, and Iam facing very similar issues on my Vdi . The turbo 'kick' starts at 2200 RPM now instead of 1800rpm , But the wooooosh is still there. !!
I'll try cleaning the air filter tomorrow and check again. Hopefully its only a clogged air filter !!

Bro, I am 99.99% sure yours is a clogged filter issue. Dont worry about the kick at 2200 rpm. I get the same. It starts in between 2100 and 2200 and is violent.Is it the same with you ?
Ps: I clean my air filter every 2000 km religiously and it makes a big difference in the kick that i get.

vibhu_f430 · 11th May 2009, 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by humyum

Bro, I am 99.99% sure yours is a clogged filter issue. Dont worry about the kick at 2200 rpm. I get the same. It starts in between 2100 and 2200 and is violent.Is it the same with you ?
Ps: I clean my air filter every 2000 km religiously and it makes a big difference in the kick that i get.

Hi mate,

ya, its kinda violent at 2100-2200 RPM. Is it back to normal with a cleaner air filter ??
If yes, then iam really happy !

Got worried after going through this thread !

BBT · 11th May 2009, 11:54

I got my 3rd service done over the weekend and was thoroughly disappointed to note that the turbo "kick" was all but gone post the service. Tush and I met up after this service and test drove each other's cars (his having done almost 5K Kms and just coming up on 2nd service and mine over 10K and completed 3rd Service) Surprisingly, I found that the behaviour of both cars with regard to the "turbo boost' was quite similar, although in his car the delay was even more and the car seemed to move forward rapidly at around 2200 - 2300 rpm. In my car, the whoosh was all but gone although the car seemed to be very responsive at around the 3000 rpm mark.
I went for a somewhat long drive into the Shayadris on Sunday and did notice that the turbo was working a lot better than after the service but again, the punch was coming up only post 2200 or 2300 rpm.
Overall, I feel it's running okay, unfortunately the vicious "pull" that I used to enjoy in almost every gear up to the 10K Kms mark is completely missing (except for at around 2600 rpm in 2nd gear when the car still goes a little berzerk).
No idea what to ask the service center to check.
On another related point, in the 3rd Service, I found that the Service Station filled in 10W30 oil in my car - the grade was mentioned as Maruti recommended in the manual. Will the changed viscosity have anything to do with the loss of turbo whoosh?

Jaggu · 11th May 2009, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBT

On another related point, in the 3rd Service, I found that the Service Station filled in 10W30 oil in my car - the grade was mentioned as Maruti recommended in the manual. Will the changed viscosity have anything to do with the loss of turbo whoosh?

Are you sure its 10w30? as far as i know Maruti recommends 10w40, filling 10w30 is not recommended since its not suited for hot climates like that of India. On the other hand oil will be thinner and will free up the engine, or give a similar feel.

nkrishnap · 11th May 2009, 13:04

I test drove my friend's car which has done 10K kms and also the 3rd service done.

The turbo seems to work fine, but the pull is around 2400 rpm unlike earlier which was around 2K rpm. Not sure what the reason is.

Is there a reason to get worried?

BBT · 11th May 2009, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Are you sure its 10w30? as far as i know Maruti recommends 10w40, filling 10w30 is not recommended since its not suited for hot climates like that of India. On the other hand oil will be thinner and will free up the engine, or give a similar feel.

I was also surprised when I saw it in the invoice and asked the Service Advisor whether this was appropriate. We opened up the User' Manual and confirmed that 10W30 was also one of the grades mentioned by Maruti there. Considering the temperature in Pune is hovering close to 40 C, I think I'll pay the Service Center a visit and tell them to change the oil (as far as I can remember the oil used in the last 2 services from the same place was Mobil Delvac 15W40).
Another thing I remembered was that the MASS did the Wheel Balancing, Rotation and Alignment during the service and I didn't check the tyre pressures after that - will do the same and report back in case it helps to get the suspected turbo issue resolved.

Jaggu · 11th May 2009, 15:44

First put the right oil in, Pune heat is not that forgiving on any engine with wrong grade of oil. Ensure you put the right quantity also.

xotiq · 11th May 2009, 15:55

Had the same problem with my 2007 vdi, and if i remember correctly. maruti had reprogrammed the ecu once and replaced it with a new one the second time around.

Jaggu · 11th May 2009, 16:52

Could you let us know if the ECU replacement done under warranty and which dealership did this? Hope you have details of the replacement with a bill (though it may read Rs 0) just for confirmation.

8th May 2009, 23:18	#91
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,216 Thanked: 15,912 Times	@ripper: you have a bust turbo with bust turbo seal, plain and simple! Replacement needed. Regarding maf sensor and all, detailed reply from pc later tomorrow from lappy.
	() Thanks

9th May 2009, 03:18	#93
Jomz BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Detroit, MI,USA Posts: 834 Thanked: 335 Times	@ ripper I assume that you have a intake airpressure and temperature sensor. If you run with a clogged filter you should be able to see it in the sensor readings. I dunno about MAF, never had one on the diesels which i tested. One more point. The bus which has the issue of turbo seals busting because of a clogged Airfilter was doing Chennai-Ooty. The low air pressures in ooty also caused the vaccum issue to be more severe. Ripper if you keep this in account- you should maybe think whether you did any trip to the hills before you had the turbo started acting up. @jaggu this happened in real life on a bus, and the turbo's for 5litre+ diesel engines are much bigger than a 1.3l turbo.This makes the seals bigger.(Larger safety factors for Commercial intercitybus application) The application required 600kms run everyday it was one of the best set of turbo's which any OEM whould give. I'm hazy about the details- but the customer created soo much ruckus so that the R&D (not marketing) had to look into it. And the turbo failed twice before pinpointing the problem. The bus engine did not have any EGR. Last edited by Jomz : 9th May 2009 at 03:21.
	() Thanks

9th May 2009, 12:20	#95
hell_rider BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 538 Thanked: 61 Times	bit late to jump in to this thread, but i am having the exact same experience bala is having on my indica tcic. earlier the car used to leap forward when the turbo kicked in. you could feel the push. now not anymore. not that i feel a loss of power. just like described, the power delivery seems more linear. the TASS people couldn't diagnose anything. i went to bosch. the guy took a test drive and said the turbo is kicking in later. he did an adjustment and told it should be better now. its still not the same however. i had almost forgotten about it, as it wasn't really being a problem in terms of power loss per se. but now after coming across this thread, i am keen to see what the cause could be in my particular case. i am planning to go back there and do a detailed investigation. will let you guys know if anything productive comes out. ciao, hell_rider Last edited by hell_rider : 9th May 2009 at 12:21.
	() Thanks

11th May 2009, 11:54	#99
BBT BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Pune Posts: 91 Thanked: 8 Times	Turbo Update after 10K service I got my 3rd service done over the weekend and was thoroughly disappointed to note that the turbo "kick" was all but gone post the service. Tush and I met up after this service and test drove each other's cars (his having done almost 5K Kms and just coming up on 2nd service and mine over 10K and completed 3rd Service) Surprisingly, I found that the behaviour of both cars with regard to the "turbo boost' was quite similar, although in his car the delay was even more and the car seemed to move forward rapidly at around 2200 - 2300 rpm. In my car, the whoosh was all but gone although the car seemed to be very responsive at around the 3000 rpm mark. I went for a somewhat long drive into the Shayadris on Sunday and did notice that the turbo was working a lot better than after the service but again, the punch was coming up only post 2200 or 2300 rpm. Overall, I feel it's running okay, unfortunately the vicious "pull" that I used to enjoy in almost every gear up to the 10K Kms mark is completely missing (except for at around 2600 rpm in 2nd gear when the car still goes a little berzerk). No idea what to ask the service center to check. On another related point, in the 3rd Service, I found that the Service Station filled in 10W30 oil in my car - the grade was mentioned as Maruti recommended in the manual. Will the changed viscosity have anything to do with the loss of turbo whoosh?
	() Thanks

11th May 2009, 13:04	#101
nkrishnap Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 3,983 Thanked: 7,407 Times View My Garage	I test drove my friend's car which has done 10K kms and also the 3rd service done. The turbo seems to work fine, but the pull is around 2400 rpm unlike earlier which was around 2K rpm. Not sure what the reason is. Is there a reason to get worried?
	() Thanks

11th May 2009, 15:44	#103
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,216 Thanked: 15,912 Times	First put the right oil in, Pune heat is not that forgiving on any engine with wrong grade of oil. Ensure you put the right quantity also.
	() Thanks

11th May 2009, 15:55	#104
xotiq BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 286 Thanked: 274 Times	Had the same problem with my 2007 vdi, and if i remember correctly. maruti had reprogrammed the ecu once and replaced it with a new one the second time around.
	() Thanks

11th May 2009, 16:52	#105
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,216 Thanked: 15,912 Times	Could you let us know if the ECU replacement done under warranty and which dealership did this? Hope you have details of the replacement with a bill (though it may read Rs 0) just for confirmation.
	() Thanks