DiCOR - What went wrong?

dkamath · 27th May 2010, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivekgk

Tata is really stingy about sending the BS4 models down south. There are two eGLX and one eLX in the showroom. Total of three vehicles in two lots!

Curiously, the dealer in M'lore has all BS4 models on display. I think it's the dealers call here rather than the manufacturer. Sorry for the off-topic post.

vivekgk · 29th May 2010, 18:46

TD'd a 2007 Indigo LS Dicor for a friend today, at Mahindra First Choice TVM. They're asking 3.25 for it. I'm still amazed by how smooth this engine feels, even after 55K and two owners. The response is crisp, and the power comes on with little to no lag. Even before the turbo kicks in, there is a significant amount of torque. Every time I drive a DiCOR, it only reaffirms my belief that this was an engine that should have been a golden feather in Tata's cap.

@dkamath: I think you're right. I had thought that it was Tata reserving the BS4 models for BS4 cities, like the fuel companies are doing with BS4 fuels.

I think that the 'Check Engine' light is to blame for most of the trouble associated with the DiCOR brand. Whenever it comes on, the driver worries about what might be wrong and rushes to the TASC, even though the engine feels right as rain. The untrained service personnel then start replacing parts one by one until the light goes off, and return the car to the driver, who doesn't see anything different except his wallet is lighter. The taxi drivers have learnt to ignore the light and are able to enjoy the engine fully! Ironic, isn't it?

Question: A few months back, when I had started my search for a used car, I came across this beautifully maintained 2008 Indigo CS Dicor. It had less than 28K on the odo, and since I had a friend at the TASC, I had them look up the service history. Turned out that the car had oil consumption issues that could not be solved by the TASC. It was them who had suggested that the owner sell it off. Naturally, I gave it a wide berth.

What could cause such an issue in a brand new car? Before anyone says 'bad quality', I'm asking about the specific mechanical failure that might cause excessive oil consumption. Badly seated engine head?

greenhorn · 29th May 2010, 18:55

vivek, thats the feedback i've gotten from all the 1.4 dicor owners i've come across. When it works, its beautiful, but more often than not, it doesnt, you end driving a semi functional car, or one which may turn into one at any moment, or spend your time and money at a TASC of your choice, or cut your losses and sell it , or go one step further and file suit against tata ( there are things which were actually done by various dicor owners I've met. Yet to meet someone who had a flawless car)

vivekgk · 31st May 2010, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn

vivek, thats the feedback i've gotten from all the 1.4 dicor owners i've come across. When it works, its beautiful, but more often than not, it doesnt, you end driving a semi functional car, or one which may turn into one at any moment, or spend your time and money at a TASC of your choice, or cut your losses and sell it , or go one step further and file suit against tata ( there are things which were actually done by various dicor owners I've met. Yet to meet someone who had a flawless car)

I think that if Tata had been more accommodating of its paying customers, DiCOR would not have gotten this bad image. What they should have done was to aggressively follow up complaints and go out of their way to keep the customers happy. I've yet to hear of any DiCOR having issues that affected daily running. There's oil consumption and fuel system trouble (Check Engine light coming on) but do these issues adversely affect on-road performance or drivability? Can you just drive on with the Check Engine light on?

What we lack on this thread is DiCOR owners who have had major troubles. We need to hear from them, their ownership experience, the maintenance they've done, problems encountered with solutions if any, before we can reach a better conclusion.

Tata also needs to train up their ASC staff better. wanderernomad has mentioned problems like the head gasket being switched with the TDi version on his DiCOR Marina. With Tata sales being what they are, Tata is in a position to lean heavily on its dealers and ASCs, and that's what they should do.

wanderernomad · 1st June 2010, 15:30

One another issue is the Water in Fuel indicator coming on at times. It is not due to any bad fuel issues but rather the odd placement of the sensor beneath the filter. As it so happens that the sensor is just above the engine guard shield which is made of plastic. At times if the plastic gets scrapped its upward movement tends to rub against the bend in the wire from the sensor thus either dislocating the wire plug from the sensor or the wire gets cut over time. The customer goes to TASC and the first thing that they do is recommend the filter change which is expensive. Something that could ahve been done DIY or for max Rs 250 costs 10 times as much.

rpmx1000 · 1st June 2010, 15:30

I had an Indica Turbo for 3.5 years. The 'Check Engine' always lighted up on putting the
car key in 'ON' position. It would stay on for a few seconds but not stay on until after the car was started. I remember asking the Concorde guys about it in the initial days where I remember being concerned about it. The service person (rightly so) told me to worry about it
only if it was persistently coming and that it was standard procedure (which I disagreed mentally then) but then always ignored it. I never had any kind of trouble at all till I sold the car, at which point the clutch had become hard and the car a little harder to do the clutch- declutch as a result, but never never any mechanical issues. It was due for clutch replacement at 50k km in any case. Of course I sold that lovely car - never even bothered about 'check engine' thanks to that timely advice.
Hope this helps clarify to some extent.

greenhorn · 1st June 2010, 15:49

I once had the CEL show up immediately after taking the car back from service. there was a sever clattery valve like sound, and the engine would stall. IT was very hard to reproduce. Eventually it was diagnosed to be a complaint in some sensor which was supposedly replaced

hell_rider · 2nd March 2011, 00:30

I have been one of the more vocal fans of TATA and have made the case for the Indica as well a number of times here.

But I do feel that somewhere along, TATA lost the plot with respect to its DICOR / CR4 initiative.

It almost feels that they ran out of steam halfway. In my book it reflects badly on TATA as a automobile manufacturer. With the kind of revenues and other equally vital resources at its disposal, I would have expected TATA to pull up their strings and hammer out every little kink. Things like not having a gearbox that can handle the power of your new engine and therefore detuning it, sounds bad.

I do believe that to an extent, the introduction of the FIAT Multijet as a powerplant option for TATA's own cars, also proved detrimental w.r.t. the DICOR / CR4 development in that it reduced the pressure on TATA to perfect the DICOR / CR4 platform on a war footing.

Now I don't see how they are going to bring about an adoption of the CR4 platform with the masses. Obviously given a choice, people are going to choose the Multijet, because it is a proven platform.

I see only a few options for TATA to generate interest and sales around the CR4 platform :

Offer the really VFM products in their stable powered only by the CR4, like the Indigo CS.
Retire the IDI475 and continue selling the Indica with only the CR4 option.
Offer both models with a 90 bhp option, which the CR4 is capable of.

Of course all of the above forces TATA to really work on the CR4 platform to give the bullet proof reliability of the IDI engine.

anky · 3rd March 2011, 15:07

Hi I have and indigo dicor 07 lx model and it gives me repeated problems ,35k done regular service , massive suspension problems , overheating issues , water in fuel sedimenter issues , rpm drop , belt noise issues . In short my alto lxi 04 @ 26000 km performs without any trouble . Yesterday my brother in law and I were going mumbai - pune - satara and after pune katraj on the pune banglore highway we saw about 30 to 35 (total) sumo victa, sumo grande , and the sumo with the 407 engine (spacio maybe) all brand new out from the factory on their way to somewhere . My curiousity got the best of me and went to one of the drivers and casually asked him as to where they were heading . Expecting them to be going to a dealer nearby max 20 kms I was stunned to hear his reply "MADRAS" .!!!

Now this is about a 1000+ km journey and he told me it would take them 3 days . Thinking someone like me would carefully run in his car for the first 1000 kms these drivers were easily going above 100 to 110 km/hr . This is cheating by tata .The cars are pre run in , I saw a maroon coloured tc reg Aria but was not sure if he was with the group . He was driving at 120 + km/hr . They were filling petrol on pune banglore highway just after pune at the McDonalds/coffee day/dominoes petrol pump . I know maruti and hyundai drive cars into the city because big trucks cannot enter city max 50 to 100 kms but 1000 kms by tata takes the cake .

NetfreakBombay · 3rd March 2011, 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by anky

we saw about 30 to 35 (total) sumo victa, sumo grande , and the sumo with the 407 engine (spacio maybe)

Maruti/ Hundai might not a fair comparison here. These sumo are commercial vehicles and it might not be economical to use a truck to transport these.

Do other vehicles in this class (E.g. Bolero) get transported by trucks?

anky · 3rd March 2011, 17:02

On the same journey ie mumbai satara a little after seeing the tata convoy i saw a mahindra THAR do the same . In all fairness the THAR was one off . Also noted that all these guys fill their brand new cars with paying customers ( abeit on the sly ) and make some extra bucks on the sly .

wanderernomad · 29th July 2011, 12:12

After 52K of bliss I think TATA is now showing its true colors now. One question for the experts here, What effect will replacing injectors on my 2007 DIOCR will have on the future reliability of the engine?

SirAlec · 29th July 2011, 22:26

^^^
What problems are you facing. Please elaborate.

greenhorn · 8th January 2012, 21:29

bump, I thought dicor had died a quite death with tata looking to bosch for its new common rail diesels, but apparently as per the auto expo, its still very much alive, and back in a hybrid avatar. Now I wouldnt give much weight to any credibility to any tata concept ( name ONE concept that tata has even remotely implemented), but I'm still surprised that they managed an attempt to flog the dead horse one more time

condor · 9th January 2012, 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by anky

... we saw about 30 to 35 (total) sumo victa, sumo grande , and the sumo with the 407 engine (spacio maybe) all brand new out from the factory on their way to ... "MADRAS" .!!!

Standard practice for UV's, LCV's & HCV's. Exceptions are all cars, 3 wheelers, bikes, tractors, Mini LCV's like Ace, Gio's - all these are transported by truck. All SUV's are transported by trucks - Safari's, Scorps etc. Even Mahindra Jeeps, Force Travellers & Trax,s are driven down.

Pre-run-in ? yes
High speed ? No.

How the drivers drive these: maximise FE. Go to highest gear, lowest speed. Why else do you think they need 3 days, when they can do the same in about 1 day or so (if they travel at 100+) ? They are given flat rate, and any savings goes to them. To add to this, they often pick up passengers on the way.

It's not just Tata, but other manufacturers too.

29th May 2010, 18:46	#122
vivekgk Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Trivandrum Posts: 1,015 Thanked: 2,247 Times View My Garage	TD'd a 2007 Indigo LS Dicor for a friend today, at Mahindra First Choice TVM. They're asking 3.25 for it. I'm still amazed by how smooth this engine feels, even after 55K and two owners. The response is crisp, and the power comes on with little to no lag. Even before the turbo kicks in, there is a significant amount of torque. Every time I drive a DiCOR, it only reaffirms my belief that this was an engine that should have been a golden feather in Tata's cap. @dkamath: I think you're right. I had thought that it was Tata reserving the BS4 models for BS4 cities, like the fuel companies are doing with BS4 fuels. I think that the 'Check Engine' light is to blame for most of the trouble associated with the DiCOR brand. Whenever it comes on, the driver worries about what might be wrong and rushes to the TASC, even though the engine feels right as rain. The untrained service personnel then start replacing parts one by one until the light goes off, and return the car to the driver, who doesn't see anything different except his wallet is lighter. The taxi drivers have learnt to ignore the light and are able to enjoy the engine fully! Ironic, isn't it? Question: A few months back, when I had started my search for a used car, I came across this beautifully maintained 2008 Indigo CS Dicor. It had less than 28K on the odo, and since I had a friend at the TASC, I had them look up the service history. Turned out that the car had oil consumption issues that could not be solved by the TASC. It was them who had suggested that the owner sell it off. Naturally, I gave it a wide berth. What could cause such an issue in a brand new car? Before anyone says 'bad quality', I'm asking about the specific mechanical failure that might cause excessive oil consumption. Badly seated engine head? Last edited by vivekgk : 29th May 2010 at 18:48.
	() Thanks

29th May 2010, 18:55	#123
greenhorn BANNED Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,878 Thanked: 4,910 Times View My Garage	vivek, thats the feedback i've gotten from all the 1.4 dicor owners i've come across. When it works, its beautiful, but more often than not, it doesnt, you end driving a semi functional car, or one which may turn into one at any moment, or spend your time and money at a TASC of your choice, or cut your losses and sell it , or go one step further and file suit against tata ( there are things which were actually done by various dicor owners I've met. Yet to meet someone who had a flawless car)
	() Thanks

1st June 2010, 15:30	#125
wanderernomad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 2,552 Thanked: 1,296 Times View My Garage	One another issue is the Water in Fuel indicator coming on at times. It is not due to any bad fuel issues but rather the odd placement of the sensor beneath the filter. As it so happens that the sensor is just above the engine guard shield which is made of plastic. At times if the plastic gets scrapped its upward movement tends to rub against the bend in the wire from the sensor thus either dislocating the wire plug from the sensor or the wire gets cut over time. The customer goes to TASC and the first thing that they do is recommend the filter change which is expensive. Something that could ahve been done DIY or for max Rs 250 costs 10 times as much.
	() Thanks

1st June 2010, 15:30	#126
rpmx1000 BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 395 Thanked: 36 Times	Check Engine Lights I had an Indica Turbo for 3.5 years. The 'Check Engine' always lighted up on putting the car key in 'ON' position. It would stay on for a few seconds but not stay on until after the car was started. I remember asking the Concorde guys about it in the initial days where I remember being concerned about it. The service person (rightly so) told me to worry about it only if it was persistently coming and that it was standard procedure (which I disagreed mentally then) but then always ignored it. I never had any kind of trouble at all till I sold the car, at which point the clutch had become hard and the car a little harder to do the clutch- declutch as a result, but never never any mechanical issues. It was due for clutch replacement at 50k km in any case. Of course I sold that lovely car - never even bothered about 'check engine' thanks to that timely advice. Hope this helps clarify to some extent. Last edited by rpmx1000 : 1st June 2010 at 15:31. Reason: readability
	() Thanks

1st June 2010, 15:49	#127
greenhorn BANNED Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,878 Thanked: 4,910 Times View My Garage	I once had the CEL show up immediately after taking the car back from service. there was a sever clattery valve like sound, and the engine would stall. IT was very hard to reproduce. Eventually it was diagnosed to be a complaint in some sensor which was supposedly replaced
	() Thanks

2nd March 2011, 00:30	#128
hell_rider BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 538 Thanked: 61 Times	Re: DiCOR - What went wrong? I have been one of the more vocal fans of TATA and have made the case for the Indica as well a number of times here. But I do feel that somewhere along, TATA lost the plot with respect to its DICOR / CR4 initiative. It almost feels that they ran out of steam halfway. In my book it reflects badly on TATA as a automobile manufacturer. With the kind of revenues and other equally vital resources at its disposal, I would have expected TATA to pull up their strings and hammer out every little kink. Things like not having a gearbox that can handle the power of your new engine and therefore detuning it, sounds bad. I do believe that to an extent, the introduction of the FIAT Multijet as a powerplant option for TATA's own cars, also proved detrimental w.r.t. the DICOR / CR4 development in that it reduced the pressure on TATA to perfect the DICOR / CR4 platform on a war footing. Now I don't see how they are going to bring about an adoption of the CR4 platform with the masses. Obviously given a choice, people are going to choose the Multijet, because it is a proven platform. I see only a few options for TATA to generate interest and sales around the CR4 platform : Offer the really VFM products in their stable powered only by the CR4, like the Indigo CS. Retire the IDI475 and continue selling the Indica with only the CR4 option. Offer both models with a 90 bhp option, which the CR4 is capable of. Of course all of the above forces TATA to really work on the CR4 platform to give the bullet proof reliability of the IDI engine. Last edited by hell_rider : 2nd March 2011 at 00:31.
	() Thanks

3rd March 2011, 15:07	#129
anky BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 402 Thanked: 115 Times	I have indigo dicor 07 / tata drives pune to madras Hi I have and indigo dicor 07 lx model and it gives me repeated problems ,35k done regular service , massive suspension problems , overheating issues , water in fuel sedimenter issues , rpm drop , belt noise issues . In short my alto lxi 04 @ 26000 km performs without any trouble . Yesterday my brother in law and I were going mumbai - pune - satara and after pune katraj on the pune banglore highway we saw about 30 to 35 (total) sumo victa, sumo grande , and the sumo with the 407 engine (spacio maybe) all brand new out from the factory on their way to somewhere . My curiousity got the best of me and went to one of the drivers and casually asked him as to where they were heading . Expecting them to be going to a dealer nearby max 20 kms I was stunned to hear his reply "MADRAS" .!!! Now this is about a 1000+ km journey and he told me it would take them 3 days . Thinking someone like me would carefully run in his car for the first 1000 kms these drivers were easily going above 100 to 110 km/hr . This is cheating by tata .The cars are pre run in , I saw a maroon coloured tc reg Aria but was not sure if he was with the group . He was driving at 120 + km/hr . They were filling petrol on pune banglore highway just after pune at the McDonalds/coffee day/dominoes petrol pump . I know maruti and hyundai drive cars into the city because big trucks cannot enter city max 50 to 100 kms but 1000 kms by tata takes the cake .
	() Thanks

3rd March 2011, 17:02	#131
anky BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 402 Thanked: 115 Times	Mahindra does it with jeeps not scorpio/xylo On the same journey ie mumbai satara a little after seeing the tata convoy i saw a mahindra THAR do the same . In all fairness the THAR was one off . Also noted that all these guys fill their brand new cars with paying customers ( abeit on the sly ) and make some extra bucks on the sly .
	() Thanks

29th July 2011, 12:12	#132
wanderernomad Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 2,552 Thanked: 1,296 Times View My Garage	Re: DiCOR - What went wrong? After 52K of bliss I think TATA is now showing its true colors now. One question for the experts here, What effect will replacing injectors on my 2007 DIOCR will have on the future reliability of the engine?
	() Thanks

29th July 2011, 22:26	#133
SirAlec Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: zxc Posts: 3,395 Thanked: 727 Times	Re: DiCOR - What went wrong? ^^^ What problems are you facing. Please elaborate.
	() Thanks

8th January 2012, 21:29	#134
greenhorn BANNED Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: KL-01 Posts: 7,878 Thanked: 4,910 Times View My Garage	Re: DiCOR - What went wrong? bump, I thought dicor had died a quite death with tata looking to bosch for its new common rail diesels, but apparently as per the auto expo, its still very much alive, and back in a hybrid avatar. Now I wouldnt give much weight to any credibility to any tata concept ( name ONE concept that tata has even remotely implemented), but I'm still surprised that they managed an attempt to flog the dead horse one more time
	() Thanks