[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by condor

I have already said in that post that it is not normal. Did you mean something else ?

Originally Posted by condor

And from what he says, does he mean to say that ALL Scorpio's are leak proof ? And that all Tata vehicles have leaks ?

Here is what you said, and NOT what I meant. This is my last post on this.

Let us enjoy Christmas please.

[madhu33]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Thanks everyone, dev, condor, 4x4addict, madhu for your inputs and confirmation.

I thought about it overnight, and today decided to go back to National and ask them to retorque all bolts properly and got all three underbody plates removed (surprised they were fiber and not metal like in the Dicor) and every part of the sump and the gearbox thoroughly cleaned with diesel and then rubbed dry and then the car taken for a proper underbody pressure wash, afte which the whole underbody was air dried and the plates refitted back.

The TASS guys suggested I needed to drive the truck a bit for the leak to reappear properly. They definitely do not feel 2-3 days would be enough (depending on my driving) and first suggested around 500 kms at least, but if that is not possible, at least 200 kms before getting the truck back for a re-check.

They managed to find the gasket (by cross checking with the truck's chassis number). Its a normal asbestos paper gasket with a central raised plasticky blue ridge with circular surround around the bot holes. Cost is 152 rupees. And yes, it is covered with a sealant compound before fitting and tightening the bolts, per the TASS head technician.

However, as er the TASS head technician, the oil is not going to be replaced, as consumables are not covered in warranty. Whatever leakage shortfall is there would be topped up in warranty only. The Storme sump takes in 7 liters of oil and it is fully synthetic oil from the factory. They did assure me that the oil would first be drained out through a thoroughly externally cleaned drain bolt, into a completely clean tray, before they actually open the sump up.

What do you guys think? I have taken Extended Warranty in addition to the company warranty as well as the Silver AMC (which covers all services and consumables till 50,000 kms). In the Storme the oil is changed only at 15,000 kms and my truck has only covered 5000 kms up till now. Is there a service at 5000 kms as well?

I feel that the retorqing of the bolts is going to solve the issue and hopefully there wont be new/fresh leak.

Just relax and enjoy the beast till next 200-300kms (which i feel should be more than sufficient to ascertain if anything is wrong)

Also if at all it gets to change of the gasket ,if i were you i would have gone for the new fully synthetic oil (even if that meant that i have to pay extra in spite of the warranty and silver AMC package. Of course to each his own but i would consider that i already have run 5000kms on the factory filled oil and would have happily opted for paying for new oil (i know the costs of fully synth oils very well)
Also since you have the silver AMC package does this mean semi Synth oil or fully synth oil? Always insist on Fully Synth oil if possible(which is also the factory grade in your case)
The 2 have a vast difference in high rpm revvability and refined feel of the engine.

However to start with i hope it does not get to that for you.

Also 1 question: What is the recommended spcs of the oil? (i mean __W__ )

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by madhu33

I feel that the retorqing of the bolts is going to solve the issue and hopefully there wont be new/fresh leak.

Just relax and enjoy the beast till next 200-300kms (which i feel should be more than sufficient to ascertain if anything is wrong)

Also if at all it gets to change of the gasket ,if i were you i would have gone for the new fully synthetic oil (even if that meant that i have to pay extra in spite of the warranty and silver AMC package. Of course to each his own but i would consider that i already have run 5000kms on the factory filled oil and would have happily opted for paying for new oil (i know the costs of fully synth oils very well)
Also since you have the silver AMC package does this mean semi Synth oil or fully synth oil? Always insist on Fully Synth oil if possible(which is also the factory grade in your case)
The 2 have a vast difference in high rpm revvability and refined feel of the engine.

However to start with i hope it does not get to that for you.

Also 1 question: What is the recommended spcs of the oil? (i mean __W__ )

Thanks for the advice and good wishes bro. I too did not want to open any part of my new engine unnecessarily which is why I deided to tighten clean and watch route suggested by most of you. Lets hope it was just loose/ned bolts.

The Engine Oil specs are:

Quantity: Max. 7.5 liters / Min. 5.5 liters

Specification: API-CH4+MB228.3 (15W40)

Company / Brand:

Castrol / GTX (Diesel)
HPCL / Milcy No. 1
Exxon Mobil / Mobil Super 1000 TM

Yes, I agree with you. I will go in for a full oil change, out of pocket if it comes to that, should they need to change the gasket.

I have just come to the 5000-5500 km mark for the 2nd free service - so I can (plan to) ask them to double that up along with the gasket work (they also have to replace one more front shocker which they did not do when they replace the other three).

However, the manual says the 2nd free service is 4500-5500 kms (the service schedule table says 5000-5500) or 6 months whichever is earlier. My 6 months actually got over end August. However, the truck has gone back to the service station so many times in the interim for small things and always checked up (in fact all things mentioned in the 2nd service), I am sure they should not have an issue?

The 3rd free service is 14500-15500 kms (the service schedule table says 15000-15500) or 12 months whichever is earlier. This is the service at which they would actually change the engine oil, oil filter, fuel filter, and replace axle oil and clean breather (I think only rear axle for 4x2, and both axles for 4x4).

For me, as per the letter of the Manual, this 3rd Free Service therefore is 2 months from now - i.e. end February 2014.

However, and this is something interesting and what I did not know until you forced me to open the Manual , for engine oil and oil filter, air filter element, and axle oil replacement, the intervals are EARLIER and are covered under Additional Maintenance for vehicles under Severe Driving Conditions, the categories being :

A - Driving in conditions such as Patrolling, Taxi, Pickup Van, Vehicle Towing, with Trailer Towing

B - Driving on Dusty / Sandy roads

C - More than 50% (in terms of kms) driving in heavy City Traffic

D - Frequently operating in Mountainous area

For these, importantly, the recommendation is to Change Engine Oil and Oil Filter every 7500 kms. (which means at 7500 kms instead of 15000 kms?)

If so, my oil change now could be in lieu of that, and then I need not change the oil 2 months from now as scheduled at the 3rd Free Service (which I would like to keep for 15000 kms, but then it would be against the OR 12 months whichever is earlier clause).

However, as per the additional maintenance for severe driving conditions clause, which recommends oil change every 7500 kms (no time limit mentionedZ), I could theoretically ask them to do an oil change again at 15,000 kms regardless of time and then avail of my 3rd free service at that time, instead of 2 months from now (having now been de-linked from the OR 12 months whichever is earlier clause), which would frankly be a waste and be done just to stick to the manual recommendations.

What do you and other experts/veterans think? Do you think I have a case/plan here?

Because I think MOST OF US would/could easily fit into the C category (i.e. More than 50% (in terms of kms) driving in heavy City Traffic).

[madhu33]

Originally Posted by ebonho

I have just come to the 5000-5500 km mark for the 2nd free service - so I can (plan to) ask them to double that up along with the gasket work (they also have to replace one more front shocker which they did not do when they replace the other three).

However, the manual says the 2nd free service is 4500-5500 kms (the service schedule table says 5000-5500) or 6 months whichever is earlier. My 6 months actually got over end August. However, the truck has gone back to the service station so many times in the interim for small things and always checked up (in fact all things mentioned in the 2nd service), I am sure they should not have an issue?

The 3rd free service is 14500-15500 kms (the service schedule table says 15000-15500) or 12 months whichever is earlier. This is the service at which they would actually change the engine oil, oil filter, fuel filter, and replace axle oil and clean breather (I think only rear axle for 4x2, and both axles for 4x4).

For me, as per the letter of the Manual, this 3rd Free Service therefore is 2 months from now - i.e. end February 2014.


What do you and other experts/veterans think? Do you think I have a case/plan here?

Because I think MOST OF US would/could easily fit into the C category (i.e. More than 50% (in terms of kms) driving in heavy City Traffic).

1)If they had any issue with your potential skip of 2nd service (6month service was due on aug 2013 which you have officially missed) they would have never offered to even top up the oil (in worst case scenario). So i hope that is not an issue with TASS(most likely)

2)A)Since officially your 3rd service is due - Feb 2014 get it done with all the mentioned replacement of parts and checks. Dont miss it in any circumstance.

B)If at all it gets to change of the oil and gasket before feb 2014 you can and you should definately club it with your official 3rd service going in with all the new oil, new oil filter , new fuel filter , 4th suspension work.

Last but not the least , i hope these visits to TASS gets rarer for you in coming future.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by madhu33

1)If they had any issue with your potential skip of 2nd service (6month service was due on aug 2013 which you have officially missed) they would have never offered to even top up the oil (in worst case scenario). So i hope that is not an issue with TASS(most likely)

2)A)Since officially your 3rd service is due - Feb 2014 get it done with all the mentioned replacement of parts and checks. Dont miss it in any circumstance.

B)If at all it gets to change of the oil and gasket before feb 2014 you can and you should definately club it with your official 3rd service going in with all the new oil, new oil filter , new fuel filter , 4th suspension work.

Last but not the least , i hope these visits to TASS gets rarer for you in coming future.

Thanks man. That sounds the most common sense - club the gasket change (if required) with the 3rd Free Service and change the oil then at that time as per schedule (its only 2 months anyways, so even if there is a re-leak I suppose I could hold off till then and just get the shocker replaced now - somehow I feel like I am driving on 3 good legs with one bad one with a limp!)

I could then change the oil next again at the 4th free service which is at 30,000 OR 24 months whichever is earlier (so end Feb 2015 for me in all lielihood).

So that still leaves me with the question - what do I do with regard to the as yet missing 2nd Free Service - both from the point of view of the coupon I still have with me and more importantly my Service Record History (for future Warranty claims if any and even otherwise to maintain a clean service history)?

Yeah, I do hope these visits of my truck to the National guys becomes less frequent. Though they are really accomodating and pick up and drop the truck off each time with a nice wash and polish, absolutely free. Full marks on that for them.

[neel385]

A lot of people seem to be suggesting that the factory filled oil in the Storme is Synthetic, but, the oil specifications given in the Service Booklet specifies Castrol GTX which is semi-synth at best. So where is the synthetic oil being the factory oil coming from?

[madhu33]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Thanks man. That sounds the most common sense - club the gasket change (if required) with the 3rd Free Service and change the oil then at that time as per schedule (its only 2 months anyways, so even if there is a re-leak I suppose I could hold off till then and just get the shocker replaced now - somehow I feel like I am driving on 3 good legs with one bad one with a limp!)

I could then change the oil next again at the 4th free service which is at 30,000 OR 24 months whichever is earlier (so end Feb 2015 for me in all lielihood).

So that still leaves me with the question - what do I do with regard to the as yet missing 2nd Free Service - both from the point of view of the coupon I still have with me and more importantly my Service Record History (for future Warranty claims if any and even otherwise to maintain a clean service history)?

Yeah, I do hope these visits of my truck to the National guys becomes less frequent. Though they are really accomodating and pick up and drop the truck off each time with a nice wash and polish, absolutely free. Full marks on that for them.

Correction :
1)If you find a re leak dont wait for Feb end and get it rectified asap & use this visit to club the 3rd free service without waiting .(be it next 7-10 days)

2) Regarding the missing 2nd service : If that was the case in service record of TASS software they wouldnt have done the 3 suspension work under warranty (assumption on my side)

Again even though the 2nd free service coupon is lying with you it doesnt mean that the records of the 2nd free service is not present in TASS software.
Many a times (also in my Manza's case) it so happens that the coupons are lying unutilized/unclaimed in service booklet but those corresponding services have already been done and recorded as per schedule .

So in your case the 2nd free service might not be showing as missed or even if it is not recorded in software the other several visits kind of make up for it .

I would not worry about the 2nd service and problems in warranty claims as of now and would rather focus on oil leak getting solved and then the 3rd free service.

[4x4addict]

@ebonho:

You are worried about this too much . Although not a good thing, a minor leak from the sump is not a major issue at all. Since your car is new you are worrying about it. There is no need to change the oil for because of this leak. Your oil filter will take care of anything.

1) Retorque the bolts as you have done.
2) If issue still persists then, see if you can live with it until the next oil change service.
3) If you want to change the gasket right away, you can re-use the oil if it is drained and kept in a clean container.
4) or If service is due in the next 5K kilometers or so, go for conventional oil and replace with synthetic at the next scheduled service.

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by neel385

A lot of people seem to be suggesting that the factory filled oil in the Storme is Synthetic, but, the oil specifications given in the Service Booklet specifies Castrol GTX which is semi-synth at best. So where is the synthetic oil being the factory oil coming from?

Originally Posted by ebonho

The Storme sump takes in 7 liters of oil and it is fully synthetic oil from the factory.

@ neel385 - You are right. Castrol GTX Diesel is mineral oil, not synthetic. Semi-synth is just marketing fluff by Castrol for some of their oils; either an oil is mineral or synthetic, there's nothing called semi-synthetic. Also, Castrol India's website itself doesn't say that Castrol GTX Diesel is synthetic: http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7079469

@ ebonho - So, in conclusion, the Storme could be coming with EITHER factory filled synthetic oil OR Castrol GTX Diesel If it's the former, please do ask the head technician which brand it is.

Here's a link that has a list of TML recommended products for various vehicles: http://customercare.tatamotors.com/r.../recomProd.asp

Cheers,
Vikram

[neel385]

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

@ ebonho - So, in conclusion, the Storme could be coming with EITHER factory filled synthetic oil OR Castrol GTX Diesel If it's the former, please do ask the head technician which brand it is.Vikram

Are we sure that the Storme is factory filled with Synth oil. The reason that I ask is that I don't see any reason for TML filling it with synth oil and then asking it's customers to change to mineral.

[comfortablynumb]

Originally Posted by neel385

Are we sure that the Storme is factory filled with Synth oil. The reason that I ask is that I don't see any reason for TML filling it with synth oil and then asking it's customers to change to mineral.

No idea man. Just to clarify, I am not a Storme owner However, I agree with you that the probability of the above happening is slim.

@ ebonho - Apologies for hijacking your thread; won't butt in anymore!

Cheers,
Vikram

[arjab]

No Tata passenger vehicle comes factory filled with synthetic oil.
Tata's have a national tie up with Castrol for supply of all lubricants for their passenger car range.

Also, none of the Tata engines require synthetic oil to deliver their best performance as their state of tune is optimised to peak with regular grade oil. Going slightly here - the same is true for all Maruti's as well - the only change being Maruti now has tied up with Shell for lubricant supply. Maruti was with Castrol & Indianoil Servo earlier

[ebonho]

So if the 3 oils I have mentioned above from the owner's manual are all mineral oils, then I agree it stands to reason that the factory filled oil would be one of these 3, and therefore also mineral.

My question the is, can a mineral oil have as long a drain interval of 15,000 kms or 12 months, whichever is earlier?

Suppose I want to fill synthetic oil during my 3rd free service (which I am definitely leaning towards), it stands to reason that the SILVER Value Care AMC will not bear that additional cost the TATA recommended oils being mineral). So can I then regardless insist of fully synthetic oil, and just pay the difference (however they calculate it)?

The link provided by Vikram above says TATA has tied up with Exxon Mobil for their MOBIL 1 fully synthetic oil. However, MOBIL 1 is 0W40 while Storme's recommended grade is 15W40. And secondly it is only recommended for the TATA petrol cars (Indica/Indigo/Marina). The fact that Manza/Vista are not mentioned also makes me wonder if this link is out of date.

Any Storme guys who have already done their 3rd Free Service oil change? Which oil did you guys fill?

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

@ ebonho - Apologies for hijacking your thread; won't butt in anymore!

Cheers,
Vikram

No please Vikram. Do by all means keep "butting in" man.

Your inputs have, as have those of the others, been really helpful to me and greatly appreciated.

[sagarpadaki]

Doc, in our driving conditions, no mineral oil can last for 15k kms. That's why the manual recommends change at 7.5k under severe conditions.

If you wish to put in fully synthetic oil then Mobil delvac 1 is your only choice. It can easily last for 15k kms under our driving conditions. But it is highly recommend that you change the oil filter at mid way mark iff you can fit in a new filter without emptying the existing oil.

If TASS allows you to use your own oil,then there is one more option you have in mineral .It is shell helix diesel hx6, which is better than all three mentioned above and will give you the smoothness of synthetic without burning a hole in your pocket. Then again this will have to be changed along with the oil filter every 7.5k kms

[4x4addict]

@ebonho: Given the Indian driving conditions, I think 10K is a good time to change oil. The discussion with synthetic oil & mineral oil is endless, but in opinion, just go with Mineral oil every 10K kilometers. My cousin's Scorpio (1st generation non-CRDe) engine has clocked over 200K kilometers with mineral oil change every 10K kilometers.

Mineral oil is recommended for very high performance engines. I suggest go with mineral oil and save your money...

Modern engines run much cleaner and don't pollute the oil as older diesel engines. Besids when it comes to sell your vehicle, no one appreciates the extra effort/money you put into the oil change !!.