[raj_5004]

Yes, I join the clan... I am a bit late to pop in, but nevertheless I am now a part of the big club of used Civic owners in this forum!

I would like to start this thread by thanking Team-BHP & 'GTO' for introducing this concept of lateral upgrading through his thread. Another of his thread which inspired me was the thread on the best used enthusiast cars in which the Civic was one of the contenders.

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Some background info: I was driving a Punto 90hp before. The car was just 1.5 years old when I had to sell it off as I was going to UK for higher studies. Now that I am back to Mumbai, I was looking for a new car. Budget was set at 5 Lacs and then increased to 6.5 Lacs.

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How did the transition happen from a new car to a used car?

1) Due to increasing traffic congestion in Mumbai, I would prefer a good A/T over a manual now.
3) My family is a bunch of tall people and we are not really suited for hatchbacks. Also, most hatches (except the Polo GT TSi) does not have a good A/T.
4) So, we needed a big and spacious car with a good A/T. I personally wanted the car to be good looking and powerful and also with the necessary features like Automatic HVAC, electric mirrors and the likes.

Now, a new car at the said budget wont meet the above requirements. Hence, I suggested that we look in the used car market for a sparingly used car with a poor resale value. That ways, we get to choose a car which is in the 10-15 Lac range and hence would be decently spacious, powerful and also come with a good A/T.

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Contenders:

Initially, we considered a new/used i10 A/T, but it was soon dismissed due to shortage of space. Cars like Dzire A/T was also rejected by me as I dont like the way it looks and it is not spacious either.

The final contenders were -

1) Used Laura A/T: Due to known issues with the DSG gearbox, I personally wanted to avoid the Laura. Also, maintenance costs of Skodas are known to be huge. And being a diesel, in our budget, we were getting 2006-2007 cars driven for more than 60k kms.

2) Used Cruze A/T: Again, being a diesel, this car was overpriced. This car ticked all the right boxes except the asking price.

3) Used Verna A/T: This car was feature loaded. We never wanted a petrol Hyundai, and the diesel again was overpriced. We were only looking at the fluidic Verna and not the old one.

4) VW Vento A/T: Somehow I feel this car is not awe inspiring. Even the interiors are plane jane and having worked in VW for some time, I knew that VW's A.S.S. is expensive.

5) Skoda Rapid A/T: Same reason as above, as its essentially the same car.

6) Honda City A/T: This car was perfect for our needs. My mom did not like the space in the rear seat. Infact, even I was uncomfortable in the driver's seat as the seat travel is too short. Even with the driver's seat fully pushed back, there was a lot of space left for the rear seat.

7) New Ford Ecosport A/T: This was the only *new* car we had in mind. Even though I like this car, I thought it is not ideal for my family. The car's seat height was a plus point but the rear seat was way too cramped for us. Took my mom and brother for a test drive, but after sitting in the display vehicle, they did not even wish to take a test drive... Space was the biggest constraint. Moreover, bookings for the A/T variant were closed.

8) Honda Civic A/T: After the City, the Civic was my next best choice. Since our running is very low, a petrol A/T car was not much of a bother. The pros and cons of the Civic as noticed by me in the various test drives are:

Pros:
a) Smart looking exteriors coupled with futuristic interiors
b) Very spacious cabin
c) Powerful and free revving A/T 1.8 iVTEC engine
d) All necessary safety features like ABS, Airbags and EBD
e) Other essential features like Alloys, Automatic HVAC and electric mirrors

Cons:
a) Low ground clearance
b) Low set seats not ideal for elderly people

I thought that the resale value of a Automatic petrol car would be pathetic and hence I would get a nice Civic for dirt cheap. Not very true. There is a fair demand for well maintained and sparingly used Civic A/T in the used car market. I was very clear that I needed a Civic Automatic only, since I have heard enough about the poor low end response of the i-Vtec engine in the Civic. I am used to the torque of diesels and driving a petrol with poor torque (comparatively) and poor low end response coupled with a manual transmission would be a chore in Mumbai city traffic. Hence, A/T was compulsory. And if its A/T, I feel there is no better choice than the Civic. Also, I preferred colours like white and black. So, I could easily narrow down on specific cars which I wanted to see and which I can choose to ignore. The downside was there were very few cars in the used car market which met the above conditions!

I saw a couple of Civics and test drove them -

# A grey Dec 2009 Civic with 40000 on the odo. Asking price 6.75 Lacs. It has a few scratches here and there. The suspension was not great. Gearshift was very jerky, the A/T was not in great shape. Some of the interior panels were scuffed.

# A white Oct 2010 Civic with 27000 on the odo. Asking price 7.8 Lacs. The car was in a great condition except for a scratch in the left rear fender and a broken driver's ORVM. Mechanically, the car was perfect. We were almost agreed to 7.5 Lacs and were about to pay the token amount but someone else paid the token before us!

# A black Aug 2010 Civic with 42000 on the odo. Asking price 7.5 Lacs. The car had 16" alloys and sport tyres. It was in a terrible condition with a lot of deep scratches. The interiors were horrible with all door pads scuffed and faded. The driver's ORVM was broken and the A/T was horrible. The car was outright rejected.

# Finally, we saw our car. After just about 1 week of searching, on 14th September. A white November 2010 Civic V A/T which has run only 28000 kms, maintained in pristine condition. I found no scratches in the car and the exteriors are fault free. On the inside, the only area of concern was a loose seat belt retractor and a missing cigarette lighter cover! And yes, a worn steering wheel, maybe because of using a steering wheel cover by the previous owner. Mechanically, the car was perfect. The interiors were clean and well kept with no visible scratches. Even the leather seats looked and felt great. No fading of any sorts on the switches or any panels.

The dealer had the entire service history of the car. It was maintained and serviced at regular intervals from a single Honda authorized dealer. I also checked for any accident repairs and there is none. Also, there have been no accident claims as the insurance has a No claim bonus on it.

After some negotiations, I agreed to pay 7.75 Lacs for the car. I guess the price should have been lesser, I would have willingly paid 7.5 for it, but the dealer refused to budge below 7.75 and I did not want to lose such a pristine car for Rs. 25000!

In the end, I feel its a bargain. I am getting a well kept car with very few kms on the odo and which is about 3 years old, in about 52% of its on road price. I can utilize the saved 48% for fuel and maintenance expenses for as long as I keep it, considering the lesser usage of this car. Frankly, I have seen people searching for their "ideal" car for months. I cant do that as I simply do not have that patience!

The last time we bought a sedan was the Opel Astra Club back in 2001. Since then, we have always been on UVs, with the exception of the Fiat Punto. Lets see how the ownership experience of sedan turns up now, after 12 years...

[raj_5004]

My other car is a XUV5OO and hence comparison is a must!

It is very obvious that both these cars are as different as chalk and cheese -

* One is a diesel whereas other is a petrol
* One makes its max torque at as low as 1600 rpm whereas the other makes it max power screaming at 6300 rpm
* One is a rugged SUV (or crossover if you may) whereas other is a sleek sedan
* One has a 6 speed stick shift tranny whereas other has a cool 5 speed A/T with paddle shift
* One seats 7 whereas the other seats 5
* One has more than enough ground clearance to pass huge craters comfortably whereas the other struggles over speed breakers with 5 on board
* One is loaded with safety, comfort and convenience features and gizmos whereas the other just has the basics covered
* One is known for its niggles (touchwood, we have had none!) whereas the other is known for its Japanese reliability

Comparing the dimensions of both the vehicles, both are almost same in length with the XUV being only 30mm longer, but the XUV is considerable wider by 140mm. This makes sitting three abreast in the rear seat of the XUV a much more comfortable affair, when compared to the Civic. Obviously, the XUV is taller too. The XUV enjoys a much more generous ground clearance too.

The mHawk engine of the XUV is a 2.2 turbo diesel whereas the i-VTEC in the Civic is a 1.8, but the Civic still manages a healthy 130 bhp at 6300 rpm. Of course, the mHawk delivers 140 bhp. But diesel engines are more about torque than power. The mHawk generates 32.63 kgm of torque at 1600 rpm compared to the i-VTEC's 17.69 kgm at 4300 rpm. It is clear that the Civic has a rev happy engine and the mHawk does not like being in the upper part of the tacho... not that it needs to be there since most of the torque is generated almost at idle!

So, it should be the XUV which is faster but no... The XUV weighs 1785 kgs whereas the Civic weighs 1210 kgs. In other words, the Civic has a power to weight ratio of 112.9 bhp/ton compared to the XUV's 78.43 bhp/ton! Hence, the Civic reaches 100 kmph from standstill in about 10.5 seconds whereas the XUV takes about 12.5 seconds to do the same.

Features of the XUV5OO missing in the Civic:

1) Static Bending projector headlights
2) Touch Screen infotainment system with DVD compatibility
3) GPS Navigation
4) Tyre Pressure sensors
5) Reverse sensors (although my Civic has it, it is not a standard fitment)
6) Automatic wipers
7) Automatic headlights
8) Side and Curtain airbags
9) Electronic stability program
10) Hill hold (I wont complain about the lack of Hill Descent control since the Civic is not a SUV!)
11) Lumbar support adjustment on front seats
12) Steering mounted audio controls
13) Flip key (Maybe absurd, but I like them, they are cool!)
14) Puddle lamps/entry assist lamps (trust me, they are very useful when its dark!)

Features of the Civic missing in the XUV5OO:

1) A/T transmission
2) ......................???

Either Honda has been stingy with the Civic when it comes to features or Mahindra has been over generous with the XUV. By the way, both fell in the same price bracket as a new car.

[raj_5004]

A comparison with my earlier drive - the Punto 90 hp cannot be left out!

Though not as varied from the Civic as the XUV, the Punto is still altogether a different beast -

* The Punto drinks diesel whereas the Civic thrives on petrol
* Again... the Punto is a 5 speed M/T whereas the Civic has a 5 speed A/T
* Both share the same tyre size though - 195/65 R15!
* The Civic is better in performance whereas the Punto is better in fuel efficiency
* The Civic has more space whereas the Punto has more features
* Both cars have good handling and ride quality, though I personally feel Punto has an edge over here, especially in the steering feel and feedback department

The Punto is considerably shorter and slimmer than the Civic, though it is taller. Acceleration of both cars just cannot be compared as the Punto simply takes ages in comparison to the Civic. The tall gearing coupled with its excess weight blunts the Punto's performance.

When I think now, I paid almost equal money for both cars (infact a little less for the Civic), still I got a bigger car which is not only more spacious, but is also more powerful and has an A/T gearbox. In contrast, I lose the fuel efficient national diesel engine and the nifty and useful features of the Punto like Blue&Me, My Car, steering mounted audio controls, etc. Also, the Punto was 'built like a tank'... cant say the same about the Civic. It is not as flimsy as the Toyotas and Marutis (personal opinion), but the Punto and even the XUV5OO feels more sturdy.

Features of the Punto missing in the Civic:

1) Blue&Me/Bluetooth enabled head unit
2) My Car settings (not very important)

Features of the Civic missing in the Punto:

1) Automatic transmission
2) Electrically foldable ORVMs

[raj_5004]

The dealer:

I bought my car from 'Karmax cars'. Regarding Karmax, they have been very professional since the beginning. The car was kept in an immaculate condition when I went to see it. Infact, I test drove the car twice and both the times, they have been generous with the test drives with no limits.

Yes, they did not budge much on the price but apart from that, their service was top-notch. From the delivery of the car to the insurance to the transfer of registration, they took care of everything with no hassles to me. Of course, we did pay for everything but the insurance amount quoted by him was decent.

I have heard really horrid stories about used car dealer but I have very good things to say about this dealer. Infact, right from the selection of the car till the delivery, he has ensured that the process is super smooth. Special mention goes to Narendra from Karmax who has been very co-operative and honest. I would happily recommend Karmax cars to anyone looking for a used car. They keep only well maintained and accident free cars and even provide a certification to ascertain the same. Before showing the car to me, they did a mechanical check on the car. Before delivery, they waxed and polished the car. So, all in all, a very good experience with Karmax.

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So far, this forum has seen quite a lot of used Civics-

* GTO's white Civic V M/T (2007)
* Frankmehta's silver Civic V A/T (2007)
* sumeethaldankar's red Civic S M/T (2007)
* bhuvan_prasad's red Civic V A/T (2006)
* kedarwalke's red Civic V A/T (2008)
* Ace_F355's grey Civic V M/T (2007)
* Vivek5870's blue Civic V A/T (2008)
* KumaravelS's white Civic Hybrid
* arvi86's blue Civic S M/T
* Anghammarad's white Civic V A/T (2011)
* sarathlal's white Civic V A/T (2010)
* normally_crazy's blue Civic V A/T (2008)
* smartcat's grey Civic V M/T (2007)
* razor4077's silver Civic S M/T (2007)
* dot's blue Civic S A/T (2007)
* autofreak's white Civic S M/T (2008)
* hassanks's grey Civic S M/T
* jesal's purple Civic V A/T (2008)
* danlalan's grey Civic S M/T (2008)

Sorry if I have missed out someone! Moral of the story is - Civic is quite a popular car among used car buyers.

[raj_5004]

Coming to my experience with the car:

I have driven only about 500 kms or so and hence my experience is pretty limited. I will pen down my current feelings about the Civic.

# Equipment levels: As I have mentioned above in the comparison with the XUV, the Civic is not really feature loaded. Atleast in the facelift, they have given a USB player. Yes, the car comes with ABS, EBD and 2 Airbags but cmon, that's the basics. You expect much more in a 15 Lac (when new!) sedan. No steering mounted controls is a big bummer. They could have omitted the cruise control and incorporated this instead. Another feature I would have liked is a gear indicator. In the Vento A/T, even in Auto mode, there is a display which always shows the current gear. Even though Civic has that provision is Sport Manual mode, it does not display that in normal Auto mode. As a driver, I would always like to know what gear I am in, even if I am driving an A/T! Also, I would have liked a Bluetooth feature in the OEM head unit. I am completely used to pairing my phone after using it in the Punto and XUV. Its a pain without it. I simply avoid picking calls when I am driving now.
The good thing is, like the XUV, the Civic has a lot of cabin lights - two map lights in the front, two readings lights in the rear and one main lamp in the center. However, it is not as bright as in the XUV. Also, Civic does not have lights in the footwell like in the XUV. Sorry to mention the XUV again and again, but when it comes to features, the XUV has raised the bar and is now the standard of comparison for me!
Thankfully, my car has reverse sensors. The previous owner has installed this from the Honda A.S.S. I guess. More importantly, the reverse sensor does not have any display and is merely a audible warning system, just the way I like it. If its not a camera, I dont understand why we need a display for reverse sensors!!!

# My usage pattern: Really unpredictable. We have bought the car primarily for city usage and grocery shopping! But I am liking the engine so much that I would want to take her to the highways too... Rising costs of petrol (in comparison to the diesel XUV) would mean that XUV would still be our primary choice. Other advantages like more interior room and better GC of the XUV also means that it would be the preferred choice for outstation trips. In short, the Civic is assumed to be sparsely driven.

# Comments on the exterior styling & design: I love it! I have always felt that the Civic and Cruze is one of the best designs in that segment. Infact, I like the fecelifted Civic more than the older one, especially the blackened headlights and the new grille. The LED effect on the new tail lights is cool too. White and black are the best colours on a Civic in my opinion. The car has a very sporty stance, low and wide. While it is great for the exterior styling, it also lowers the seat height. More on that later.

# Overall build quality and fit & finish: I will be honest. I am not a big fan of Japanese cars for the sole reason that their products are not build tough as the Germans and even the Indians. I am not talking about safety standards here, I am talking about toughness of the sheet metal. I dislike Toyota's and Maruti's products for this reason, no offense to owners. I have limited experience with the City, Jazz, Brio and Amaze, but the Civic feels well built. The doors have a nice thud and feel solid. However, the boot and the bonnet feels light. Overall build quality is good, though not great.
Fit and finish is awesome as expected. The Civic has run 29k kms now and there is not a single rattle or squeak from anywhere. The XUV has about 22k on the odo and the dashboard and one of its door already squeak. Of course, the XUV has been abused and I have no idea how the previous owner of the Civic used to drive her. But in general, the Civic feels much better built.

# Interior design & quality: Interior design is the strongest point of the Civic. The instrument cluster is the best design element and has already been talked about a lot. The whole design of the dash and the centre console is great and feels like of a premium car. The in-built head unit is not very awe inspiring though.
Quality is top notch and all the plastics used feel great. Importantly, all the hand rests, that is on the door pads and middle hand rest has soft leather covering, which makes it comfortable on long journeys. I remember the Innova and Corolla having hard plastic for hand rests, which is not very suitable.

# Interior space and comfort: The primary reason for going for a used car and picking a Civic over a City is the desire for space in the cabin. And yes, the Civic is very spacious (for a sedan). The cab forward design and the excellent space utilization of the Japanese engineers means that both the front and the rear seats have more than enough legroom. I am 6'2" and my brother is 6'3" and we push the front seats all the way to the back. Yet, passengers in the rear seat are reasonably comfortable.
The seats are nice but not as well bolstered as in the XUV. I wish Honda had offered a lumbar support in the front seats.

# Air conditioner: The A/C is a chiller. Even without sun films, the car cools reasonably well. However, its raining these days in Mumbai. The real test for the A/C is a month later.

# Engine performance & driveability: Performance is simply superb. I always drive in 'D' mode. I have never felt the need to drive in 'S' mode. Whenever there is a small gap, simply prod the throttle and the car shoots forward like nobody's business! Yes, there is a small lag when you floor the throttle because the tacho jumps all the way to the redline and then there is not much juice left for it to accelerate. But in normal day to day driving, you will not be asking for more power.
I have heard that manual Civics suffer from poor low end torque. I have not faced that issue with the A/T. A friend told me that the A/T has different gearing. I am not sure about that, but all I know is the car feels peppy and ready to leap always.
Another strong point of the engine is it's refinement. The car is damn silent at idle. Even while cruising, the only noise you hear is the tyre roar. That said, I am lucky I got Michelins with the car!
The only time you hear the engine is when you floor it and when it revs till redline... and thats a sweet growl which you may want to hear again and again. I do!

# Gearshift / transmission quality, smoothness, response time etc.: Hondas have always been good in making great engines and excellent gearboxes. Ditto for this gearbox. It shifts seamlessly and its so smooth that even the driver will have to concentrate to know when shifts happen. Response time is not amazingly quick, but its sufficient.

# Fuel efficiency: I am getting 8.5-9 kmpl (as per the MID) in city traffic with 100% AC. In dense city traffic, the FE drops to 7 kmpl. On the highway with AC and speeds of 70-80 kmph, it showed a FE of 14 kmpl. I am not sure if the i-VTEC is working as the city FE is really low, but I cant be complaining about FE after buying a petrol A/T sedan!

# Suspension & ride quality: After using UVs for quite some time, every sedan feels planted and balanced! The ride of the Civic is good but as many know, the rear can get a bit bouncy. Over most undulations though, as long as the speed is in control, the ride is pliant and occupants wont be tossed around. More importantly, suspension noise is minimum.

# Handling, on-road behaviour and grip levels: I have driven the sweetest handling hatchback of our country - the Punto. The Civic is not a match to the Punto but comes close. Handling is neutral and will not scare you. Yes, it handles better than the Corolla!

# Comments on the steering, braking, high speed stability etc.: The steering wheel is small. I am glad this car has a hydraulic steering. The steering is quick, direct and precise. No complaints on the stability either. Braking is great and all it needs is a tap on the brake pedal to slow it down.

# Any particular likes: I like the fact that the Civic has so many cubbholes. Infact the centre console itself has so many that I can keep my both phones and still two covered cubby holes are left unused. Then there is the armrest which itself has a huge storage space. All four doors have bottle holders. Infact Civic is one rare car which has a grab handle for the driver, a vanity mirror as well (not that I use it!). Apart from that, the thing I love about the Civic is the engine and the A/T.

# Any particular dislikes: I am not happy with the stock headlamps, they are woefully inadequate. Even the fog lamps are not great. The horn is pathetic, very shrill and squeaky! Paddle shifters have some play in them, I dont know whether its specific to my car. Ingress and egress is not the most convenient due to the low seating position.

# Any niggles, problems or part replacements faced: Apart from a slight rattling from the front left door, there has been no niggle in the car. Yes, the car was pulling to the left which was solved after an alignment. One of the brake lights was not working, which was duly replaced at a local shop within 5 minutes.

# Cost of upkeep & maintenance: Till now? Alignment of Rs. 300/- and new bulb of Rs. 150/- with labour.

[raj_5004]

I have named my Civic "CeeVee" or "CV" in short! Why CeeVee? It is the XUV's younger sister whose named Xoovy! So, Xoovy-CeeVee bhai behen!

I understand a report is incomplete without pics, so here are a few of them. Very soon, I will upload more detailed pics if you guys wish...

Posing for the cam -





A shot of the beautiful instrument cluster -



Getting her alignment done -

[raj_5004]

Any accessories?

Yes, got a set of IND plates for her. Was planning to put an aftermarket horn too, but apparently the bumper is screwed onto the chassis (perhaps the previous owner did it to align the bumper after a small shunt) and hence the horn cannot be installed.

Any mods planned?

Yes, but nothing for now. After some "unknown" time, I may upgrade the alloys and tyres to 16", get a lip spoiler with some CF detailing. Also, a small ICE upgrade may also be on the cards. No performance mods planned as I dont need it.

Last, but not the least, I would like to thank my friend Aditya (@ renegade) and Arun for accompanying me to those test drives. Their inputs have been very useful and needless to say, as soon as I got the car, I headed over to their place for a drive! Thanks mate...

[mobike008]

Note from Mod : Thread Moved from Assembly Line to Initial Ownership Section. Thanks for sharing.

[sumeethaldankar]

Welcome to the Civic club and congrats on the ride. The car looks well maintained. You seem to have gone through many of the ownership reports of the civic judging by the listing you made .

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar

Welcome to the Civic club and congrats on the ride. The car looks well maintained. You seem to have gone through many of the ownership reports of the civic judging by the listing you made .

Thank you Sumeet.

Yes! Have never bought a used car before. Just wanted to be doubly sure about what I am getting into.

Some snaps of the interior -

[S2!!!]

Congrats raj_5004. Your Civic surely seems to be in immaculate condition. I guess you have finally found a worthy replacement for your beloved Pintu.

Drive Safe

[raj_5004]

The previous owner had opted for extended warranty, which means the car is still under warranty till 11/14.

Originally Posted by S2!!!

Congrats raj_5004. Your Civic surely seems to be in immaculate condition. I guess you have finally found a worthy replacement for your beloved Pintu.

Drive Safe

Thank you buddy. It sure is a great replacement for Pintu.

[S@ndy]

After seeing the pictures of your Civic, this pre-worshipped buying thingy is striking me hard. Beautiful pics of Civic, which still looks contemporary even though t'was launched in 2007. Just a question, is the front body-kit only on V variants? Askin' this as Civic looks really good with this body kit and haven't seen it on many civvy's. Have a blast and keep updating the report!

Keep revvin' her high,
S@ndy

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by S@ndy

After seeing the pictures of your Civic, this pre-worshipped buying thingy is striking me hard. Beautiful pics of Civic, which still looks contemporary even though t'was launched in 2007. Just a question, is the front body-kit only on V variants? Askin' this as Civic looks really good with this body kit and haven't seen it on many civvy's. Have a blast and keep updating the report!

Keep revvin' her high,
S@ndy

Hi S@ndy, there is no body kit on my car. Those are the standard bumpers. Also, I do not plan to install any body kit as the ground clearance is already very low.

[raj_5004]

Some un-edited pics of Ceevee -