2nd TD of VISTA & PUNTO - Quite Disturbing

Crimson · 15th July 2009, 11:25

Hi Guys,

I went for a second TD of the GP MJD and Vista yesterday.

Let me start with the GP MJD. Performance and handling wise everything was spot on. Just the same as the previous TD. However the disturbing fact was the noise and the vibration levels. They were on the higher side for the first TD itself but this time it was just excessive.
I could feel the vibrations on the clutch pedal and on the steering wheel. The noise was also quite loud in the cabin every time I pushed the car. A lot more than the noise that was experienced during the first TD.

I am now very concerned with this.
Is it something that they would fix sometime soon in the future?
Is it worth waiting for about a month before I put down my money for the car? Was planning to book one this week.
Is there anything that could be done after market to reduce the Noise and vibration levels?

I read on some other post that FIAT has used less noise insulation material on the Punto then on the Linea. If we can get information on where they have done this cost cutting, can we do something ourselves?

I am now inclined to test the Swift DDIS and compare the Noise and vibration.

Now for the VISTA Quadrajet: The car had clocked 15000 KMS. And it was in HORRIBLE state. The steering was not aligned, and felt so vague and rubbery. Clearly not like the earlier TD I had taken when the car was new. Gears were feeling clanky. When i accelerated to about 80 it started feeling a wobbly and definatley not confidence inspiring.
To top it all the drivers side door would not open. Finally someone had to take the key and unlock the door from the outside.

I guess this is all because of it being a TD car and being badly abused but 15K Kms is not a lot! And if the dealerships provide such a car for the TD then no one is going to want to buy it!
Does this also say something about the durability of the car?
May be some existing Vista QJD owners could comment on this.

ashthedivx · 15th July 2009, 11:33

One question : Is this the first time you are driving Diesel Hatch ??

Furious55 · 15th July 2009, 11:43

Quite suprising. When I TD'd the Vista, it was in pretty good shape. Didn't check the Km though. Regarding the vibrations, I found it smooth compared to the old Indica.

phamilyman · 15th July 2009, 11:46

You can put polyfill inside the bonnet damping material

kvish · 15th July 2009, 11:47

All three cars have same engines and cater to different requirements.
If you are very specific on Noise and Vibration levels, you should consider a petrol. Over a longer period of time, diesels will have more nvh levels in comparison.
People love the vista for the interior space. Its way ahead of all three in comparison.
You'll find disadvantage in each cars. And one disadvantage of buying Tata/Fiat is the Dealership experience. Some dealers are good, but quite a few are extremely laid back and dont really bother to sell

If you can highlight your specific requirements, owners of each of the shortlisted cars can give you their inputs. That would make your task easier. I know tata indica v2 users who have driven 75-100K without too many issues. So you could consider TD car as 'an abberation' especially since its just done 15K.

Crimson · 15th July 2009, 11:48

I know this is OT but definitely worth a mention! I popped in at Sanjay Hyundai when the I20 CRDI was launched. (could not get a TD).

Since then I have got 9 calls from the someone or the other at Sanjay Hyundai asking when I wanted a TD and tellingme the merits of the I20!

Even someone from Kothari Hyundai called!

Now I have been to the Fiat - TML dealer thrice, spoken at length to the sales guy etc etc, but not ONCE have i got a call!

amit · 15th July 2009, 11:48

Quote:

Is this the first time you are driving Diesel Hatch ??

Good question.

I just bought a Punto MJD and it's my first diesel car. Well, I had a Mark IV Golf Tdi in 2005 for about 30 days but I don't count that as a proper ownership. Anyway, I find the noise level's acceptable. In second gear at about 2500rpm it does get boomy as it would in any diesel but at cruising speeds the Punto is nice and quiet. In fact, at 2000rpm in 5th gear it feels like a Petrol. I have driven a Dzire DDis but it was too short a TD to judge noise so I think it's a good idea to test drive a Swift to be sure. Do note that the Punto's engine you drove was new so it could get smoother and more refined as the kilometer's build up.

The Vista seems like a clear case of abused demo car. Drive another car at a different dealer.

Quote:

being badly abused but 15K Kms is not a lot!

15K is enough to abuse a car. I can beat a car to crap in 5K kms if I want to

.

Crimson · 15th July 2009, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashthedivx

One question : Is this the first time you are driving Diesel Hatch ??

I don't own a diesel hatch. But as mentioned in my post I test drove the VISTA and the GP (diesels) earlier. So yes, my experience with diesels is very limited.

Also the points I mentioned are ONLY in comparison to my earlier TD.

Crimson · 15th July 2009, 11:53

I hope I am not taken wrong here. I WANT to buy the Punto. I just love it. But found the NVH louder on the second TD experience and that kinda worried me. I cant get the petrol as my daily commute is about 70Kms.

The Linea feels much better insulated from Noise and Vibration than the Punto. And its practically the same engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phamilyman

You can put polyfill inside the bonnet damping material

Thanks phamilyman!

Can I get some more inputs on the questions I had put up?

BTW: Saw my first Medium Grey Punto in Pune on Synagogue Street (opp Mahesh Lunch Home) on Sunday. Does that belong to a Bhpian?

balajird · 15th July 2009, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvish

All three cars have same engines and cater to different requirements.
...If you can highlight your specific requirements, owners of each of the shortlisted cars can give you their inputs. That would make your task easier...

I am in the same lines of Crimson, looking for a diesel hatch which will serve for a family of 4 adults (some times 5) and a kid. Will be mostly used on weekends and for highways and sometimes on weekends inside city. Will be hardly used during weekdays and in traffic condition

. I would be happy to get a suggestion for this kind of a requirement. I am already looking like a confused child in deciding what car to buy.

Crimson · 15th July 2009, 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvish

If you can highlight your specific requirements, owners of each of the shortlisted cars can give you their inputs. That would make your task easier.

OK Here Goes:

1. Daily 70Kms.
2. I will be driving the car everyday through congested traffic.
3. Weekends - the odd the highway drive to a hill station.

Id like to mention here that my mind is quite made up on the Punto. I just want to see what options I have regarding the Noise and vibrations. Particularly this point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson

Is it worth waiting for about a month before I put down my money for the car? Was planning to book one this week.

Technocrat · 15th July 2009, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by phamilyman

You can put polyfill inside the bonnet damping material

Thats a nice suggestion

Quote:

=CrimsonThanks phamilyman!

Can I get some more inputs on the questions I had put up?

If there is a bonnet damping layer on inside of your bonnet(Swift has it), then simply open it & put polyfill or glasswool there & it would make the engine noise go a few notches down

Seeler_Rebeiro · 15th July 2009, 12:29

Hi,
I think the advantages of a diesel kicks in at around usage of 100kms/day or more . I could be wrong though.

Can someone please send Crimson the calculator used to arrive at petrol vs diesel decision ? I could not locate that thread.

Crimson,
Did you try a TD some other dealership ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson

OK Here Goes:

1. Daily 70Kms.
2. I will be driving the car everyday through congested traffic.
3. Weekends - the odd the highway drive to a hill station.

Id like to mention here that my mind is quite made up on the Punto. I just want to see what options I have regarding the Noise and vibrations. Particularly this point:

Technocrat · 15th July 2009, 12:33

Here you go The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel (The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel)

aks_karthik · 15th July 2009, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Thats a nice suggestion

If there is a bonnet damping layer on inside of your bonnet(Swift has it), then simply open it & put polyfill or glasswool there & it would make the engine noise go a few notches down

But Polyfill or Glasswool are pretended on fire na.
whether it is safe to use it in bonnet area?

15th July 2009, 11:25	#1
Crimson BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 224 Thanked: 0 Times	2nd TD of VISTA & PUNTO - Quite Disturbing Hi Guys, I went for a second TD of the GP MJD and Vista yesterday. Let me start with the GP MJD. Performance and handling wise everything was spot on. Just the same as the previous TD. However the disturbing fact was the noise and the vibration levels. They were on the higher side for the first TD itself but this time it was just excessive. I could feel the vibrations on the clutch pedal and on the steering wheel. The noise was also quite loud in the cabin every time I pushed the car. A lot more than the noise that was experienced during the first TD. I am now very concerned with this. Is it something that they would fix sometime soon in the future? Is it worth waiting for about a month before I put down my money for the car? Was planning to book one this week. Is there anything that could be done after market to reduce the Noise and vibration levels? I read on some other post that FIAT has used less noise insulation material on the Punto then on the Linea. If we can get information on where they have done this cost cutting, can we do something ourselves? I am now inclined to test the Swift DDIS and compare the Noise and vibration. Now for the VISTA Quadrajet: The car had clocked 15000 KMS. And it was in HORRIBLE state. The steering was not aligned, and felt so vague and rubbery. Clearly not like the earlier TD I had taken when the car was new. Gears were feeling clanky. When i accelerated to about 80 it started feeling a wobbly and definatley not confidence inspiring. To top it all the drivers side door would not open. Finally someone had to take the key and unlock the door from the outside. I guess this is all because of it being a TD car and being badly abused but 15K Kms is not a lot! And if the dealerships provide such a car for the TD then no one is going to want to buy it! Does this also say something about the durability of the car? May be some existing Vista QJD owners could comment on this.
	() Thanks

15th July 2009, 11:33	#2
ashthedivx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 1,356 Thanked: 24 Times	One question : Is this the first time you are driving Diesel Hatch ??
	() Thanks

15th July 2009, 11:43	#3
Furious55 BANNED Join Date: May 2009 Location: Margao Posts: 94 Thanked: 9 Times	Quite suprising. When I TD'd the Vista, it was in pretty good shape. Didn't check the Km though. Regarding the vibrations, I found it smooth compared to the old Indica.
	() Thanks

15th July 2009, 11:46	#4
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	You can put polyfill inside the bonnet damping material
	() Thanks

15th July 2009, 11:47	#5
kvish BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 627 Thanked: 195 Times	All three cars have same engines and cater to different requirements. If you are very specific on Noise and Vibration levels, you should consider a petrol. Over a longer period of time, diesels will have more nvh levels in comparison. People love the vista for the interior space. Its way ahead of all three in comparison. You'll find disadvantage in each cars. And one disadvantage of buying Tata/Fiat is the Dealership experience. Some dealers are good, but quite a few are extremely laid back and dont really bother to sell If you can highlight your specific requirements, owners of each of the shortlisted cars can give you their inputs. That would make your task easier. I know tata indica v2 users who have driven 75-100K without too many issues. So you could consider TD car as 'an abberation' especially since its just done 15K.
	() Thanks

15th July 2009, 11:48	#6
Crimson BHPian Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pune Posts: 224 Thanked: 0 Times	I know this is OT but definitely worth a mention! I popped in at Sanjay Hyundai when the I20 CRDI was launched. (could not get a TD). Since then I have got 9 calls from the someone or the other at Sanjay Hyundai asking when I wanted a TD and tellingme the merits of the I20! Even someone from Kothari Hyundai called! Now I have been to the Fiat - TML dealer thrice, spoken at length to the sales guy etc etc, but not ONCE have i got a call!
	() Thanks

15th July 2009, 12:33	#14
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	Here you go The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel (The financial Truth: Petrol vs Diesel)
	() Thanks