[sidindica]

Originally Posted by ACM

Sid Nice Review, Now given the Huge difference in price between the 1.2 Petrol Emotion Model (wihch is said to be close to the 1.4 petrol in practical performance) and Top end 90 HP Diesel which is close to the performance of 75HP Diesel

Sid/GTO
Which is better VFM and fun to drive?
1.2 Petrol - 5.2L
1.4 Petrol - Emotion Pack -6.3L
1.3 Diesel - Emotion Pack - 6.9L
1.3 Diesel - 90HP - Emotion Pack - 7.5L Estimated
1.2 i20 Astra - 6L (No Sun Roof version)
1.2 120 Astra O - 6.4L (with Sun Roof Version)
1.4 CRDI Astra - 7.5L

If the Fiat Petrol 1.2 Emotion at 5.2L can give 95% of the features and performance that the Hyundai 1.4 Diesel Astra/ Fiat 1.3 Diesel 90HP can manage then shouldn't that be the one to go for.

Infact alternatively with discounts the Vista Saffire Petrol Aura + would be even more value at about 4.9L

2.3L is a huge price differential to justify going for a diesel over petrol considering that the petrol versions are also quite fuel efficent and the rest of the car remains the same.

So a Fiat 1.2 emotion or a Saffire Petrol Aura + anyone? l

1.2 punto is horribly sluggish-like 0-100 in 18 odd seconds plus the engine is not that refined either. In fact, any car with a 1.2 petrol cannot really be called a fun to drive. In a tight price band, the figo 1.2 can be termed, if you go higher, than its the swift 1.2 and the punto 1.4 (the 1.4 has to be whipped for this.)

Who said that a diesel cannot be fun to drive? The 90 HP had a great potential, is absolutely rev friendly and revs to its 5200 rpm with ease. Only the absurd tuning is a let down, more so the awful interior fit and finish. The car is good granted, but still lacks finesse and polish.
Just if Fiat gives a copy paste of linea's interiors, the the scores will dramatically be altered. But no, it really sucks..

[sidindica]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Agreed that everybody is disappointed with the 15 horses missing.

Looking from cost perspective, to bring in the gearboxes that are plonked in Europe to India and make these hot hatches, there would be substantial capital cost involved. Agreed that they could have done better with the ratio and aid the performance. But FIAT has already learnt a lesson in a hard way of fuel guzzlers tag.

Now when they are trying to get rid of the fuel guzzlers tag, the performance issue creeps up. For FIAT is its not a bed of roses, rather a a bed of thorns.

All the best FIAT

Who said that a hard capital cost is involved? The box is not the problem, the ratios are. And any diesel which makes more torque at least rpm possible is actually very efficient since you don't have to rev the engine hard. Drive the 90 HP and see how there is severe turbo lag below 2000 rpm as per quoted max torque at 1750 rpm.
All it requires is ECU remapping, that's all. The car was simply struggling to accelerate in second gear below 2000 rpm and I could not go down below 3000 rpm at 60 kmph so that the engine performed at its best. The vista QJD engine is far better calibrated despite having an older FGT version.

And for me, I don't think that Fiat is such a big deal/company that I will be sensitive or give it a benefit of doubt. The competition is intense, and you have 8 choices of diesel hatches, not just your punto alone.

I am waiting for a full blown report by GTO. Just because I want to see some good pics taken by him.

[neoonwheels]

Originally Posted by sidindica

And for me, I don't think that Fiat is such a big deal/company that I will be sensitive or give it a benefit of doubt. The competition is intense, and you have 8 choices of diesel hatches, not just your punto alone.

I wonder why in the first place you went ahead with Punto then, given a lot of sensible hatches in the market?

[mnhegde]

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

I wonder why in the first place you went ahead with Punto then, given a lot of sensible hatches in the market?

He hasn't purchased Grande Punto, Friend. He owns a Honda Jazz .

Nice review, Sid.

EDIT: Sid, Sorry for the confusion, Will search for that thread.

[sidindica]

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

I wonder why in the first place you went ahead with Punto then, given a lot of sensible hatches in the market?

how many of there were launched in january?
And its all about perception.

Originally Posted by mnhegde

He hasn't purchased Grande Punto, Friend. He owns a Honda Jazz .

Nice review, Sid.

I don't own, my parents own. We purchased a punto for my use, and it was totalled after 2 months. Why and how? See it on my thread and I will not be interested in discussing my punto ownership again and again.

[ntrack]

Originally Posted by recshenoy

totally disappointing stuff. car looks gorgeous from outside! Black roof also looks nice. But interior plastic quality "simply pathetic". Huge panel gaps are such a big let off. FIAT should learn from Hyundai for interior FIT and FINISH.

No way this is going to be a competitor to i20 FIAT you lost it!

Sure Fiat has to learn about better fit & finish from Hyundai. But then Hyundai has to learn many a things from Fiat - about ride, handling, suspension, driveability, braking etc. (i20 is no match to Punto in these departments)

Agree that fit finish gives u bad first impressions & Fiat needs to improve big time there - but drive the car for a few kilometeres & u'll forget the i20!!

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by ntrack

Sure Fiat has to learn about better fit & finish from Hyundai. But then Hyundai has to learn many a things from Fiat - about ride, handling, suspension, driveability, braking etc. (i20 is no match to Punto in these departments)

Agree that fit finish gives u bad first impressions & Fiat needs to improve big time there - but drive the car for a few kilometeres & u'll forget the i20!!

nice Short and crisp review Sid ,

Well said Ntrack , Between , I think The things which hyundai needs to learn are more imp, When compared to fiat . One can live with OK types interiors and plastics but cannot live without proper ride, handling, suspension, driveability, braking Abilities of Car. it's here that FIAT scores heavily, another reason that FIAT has a loyal following ( most enthusiasts and Auto lovers, Who understand' s the imp of these factors ) . At the end of day , your car should Save your life in case of mishap( Already proved with FIAT ) .

I am really unable to understand why everybody is More interested in plastics. do we buy our cars after seeing plastics & forgetting everything else or After seeing a CAR as a whole package . As a whole package and a value for money perspective , I have Always liked fiats / tata's or Mahindra's

others make good cars but some where only European cars inspire that confidence in me, when it comes to safety.

my personnel opinion with all respect to every one In the business.

As for performance goes, I like to wait for some body to cross at least 5000 KM on Odo and than comment on the same .

[ntrack]

Originally Posted by shivasuma

I dont know whats wrong with these guys at Fiat India. They seemed to be masters of screw-ups. They took what could have been the best hatch and made into an average hatch. Like GTO mentioned, where are those extra horses! Compared to the I20 the punto is lighter (i20 is 1222kgs while punto is 1190kgs I think), so they cannot say its the weight. When hyundai can do it, why can't fiat???? They have been in this business far longer than hyundai.

The 90 HP is all about better driveability, better torque & slighty improved performance - with BETTER fuel efficiency (20 km/l). It is no rocket!

I get amused by talks of comparisons with i20.The questions to be asked are
1. Do i20 / Swift offer such ride & handling as the Punto?
2. Comfort?
3. Do i20 / Swift have the sure-footed feeling of Punto at high speeds? (Try swerving these cars at 90kmph)
4. Do i20 / Swift have the robustness of Punto? (see a swift after 50k on the odo & compare it to a Punto - you'll have an answer)
5. Do i20 / Swift offer the equipment level at this price?

You can tweak power in the aftermarket - but can you improve handling or ride? You can tune the Punto that can beat any competition, but you can't do the opposite.

What will one do with extra performance of i20, when the handling is pathetic? The steering feels like a video game. I have driven many a sports cars - lambos, mustangs, beamers, corvettes, hence can relate the feeling Punto offers.

Punto has excellent good all round abilities. Yes, the interior fit & finish is very bad & no match for competition - but that's it!

Fiat engineers in Turin know best how to tune the engines they manufacture - for a balanced performance / efficiency & longer life. It costs them no money to tweak it here & there, you know!

BTW, Punto sells more diesels than i20, and its the Emotion & E Packs that sell most!!

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by sidindica

how many of there were launched in january?
And its all about perception.

All of them or lets say all those who you think are better than the Punto EP. Not that it matters to me because requirements differ from person to a person.

[rbp]

Originally Posted by ntrack

BTW, Punto sells more diesels than i20, and its the Emotion & E Packs that sell most!!

Source? We have 4 i20's in our office 3 diesels and 1 petrol.

[sidindica]

Peace please!

Is something cooking here at fiat's India website?

[ntrack]

Originally Posted by rbp

Source? We have 4 i20's in our office 3 diesels and 1 petrol.

Hey rpb - no offence, but the market in bigger than your office. 4 cars is not even a sample size, Sorry!

Please refer to industry figs.

[shivasuma]

Originally Posted by ntrack

The 90 HP is all about better driveability, better torque & slighty improved performance - with BETTER fuel efficiency (20 km/l). It is no rocket!

The driveability isn't that better according to Sid. About the fuel efficiency, we need to wait for the car to be launched.

I get amused by talks of comparisons with i20.The questions to be asked are
Why amused??? They are competitors. People will compare them.
1. Do i20 / Swift offer such ride & handling as the Punto?
No. But one of the competitors does. Figo.
2. Comfort?
I find the i20 good enough. The ride maybe not be as good as Punto but good enough for me.
3. Do i20 / Swift have the sure-footed feeling of Punto at high speeds? (Try swerving these cars at 90kmph)
Why would I swerve at 90kmph??? I always drive safe, keep a safe distance. Also the i20 has one of the best brakes.
4. Do i20 / Swift have the robustness of Punto? (see a swift after 50k on the odo & compare it to a Punto - you'll have an answer)
The I20 feels robust. I find nothing wrong with it. Dont know about swift.
5. Do i20 / Swift offer the equipment level at this price?
I20 does offer a lot of equipment(not as much as Punto maybe). I think the diesel is overpriced by about 50K.

You can tweak power in the aftermarket - but can you improve handling or ride?
Yes you can improve ride & handling by fitting aftermarket products. Why not?
You can tune the Punto that can beat the s**t out of any competition, but you can't do the opposite.
Good for punto that it can beat the "s**t" out of competition. The competitors suck!!!!

What will one do with extra performance of i20, when the handling is pathetic? The steering feels like a video game.

The handling of i20 isnt "pathetic". Not as good as Punto but definitely not "pathetic". I never played video games so cannot correlate to that. But yes the steering lacks feel and is very light, but unfortunately the mass market prefers that over say a steering like on the punto or fiesta.

I have driven many a sports cars - lambos, mustangs, beamers, corvettes, hence can relate the feeling Punto offers.

I have never had the privilege to drive/own any of these. If I feel I cannot buy a sports car like Lambo/Beamer/Mustang/Corvette, I will definitely buy the Punto.

Punto has excellent good all round abilities. Yes, the interior fit & finish is very bad & no match for competition - but that's it!

Fiat engineers in Turin know best how to tune the engines they manufacture - for a balanced performance / efficiency & longer life. It costs them no money to tweak it here & there, you know!

Never said Punto as a car was bad. Its very good. It could have been better, but.....

BTW, Punto sells more diesels than i20, and its the Emotion & E Packs that sell most!!

Good for Fiat India.


My answers in bold.

P.S: I dont intent to start a fight. Just wrote what I thought.

[amoghchaphalkar]

Originally Posted by rbp

Source? We have 4 i20's in our office 3 diesels and 1 petrol.

I don't know ntrack's source but I know that he is right. I was told by Hyundai salesmen in Pune that they are struggling to sell 1.4 CRDi's and the petrol variants to diesel variants sales ratio is 7:1 (in festive - peak sales season it goes to around 10:1)

Don't think office parking space can be an indicator of sales figures !!

if anything : have a look at the number of 1.4 CRDi's and 1.3 MJD's on TBHP and you will probably have your answer. But even that is not a good sample size I will say.

Anyway : let's not go here

[MutantX]

Sid, FIAT india website hasnt been QA'ed properly. Did you try selecting Hybrid/CNG/Electric/LPG to check if you have got any results?