tubeless tyres

navin · 16th March 2004, 17:46

Q: What are the advantages of tubless tyres (and while we are it Alloy Wheels) over the old fashioned tubed tyres. Someone told me that they fit tubes in tubeless tyres too in India.

v12 · 16th March 2004, 18:15

THE TUBELESS REVOLUTION -
Advantages of a Tubeless Tyre over Conventional Tube Tyre
OVERDRIVE advocates the use of tubeless tyres. Why? How much importance do we place on the tyres we use in our vehicles? Where is tyre technology is to in the future? It is essential for vehicle users to be aware of the advantages of tubeless tyres compared to conventional tube tyres.

So what exactly are the advantages? The primary advantage of a tubeless tyre is in internal construction and materials used. A tubed tyre is vulnerable to friction and heat generated between the tube and the inner surface of the tube which reduces life of the tube. In a tubeless tyre the inner layer of the tyre is the tube itself. This layer is made of a material like halo-butyl/chlorobutyl which is basically resistant to heat and reduces permeation of air.

The weight of the tube inside a tyre adds to the unsprung weight affecting handling characteristics and overall performance. The lack of a tube reduces unsprung weight and improves dynamic ability. The lack of a tube also reduces rolling resistance caused by friction between the tyre and tube. The lower rolling resistance, lesser weight and the tubeless tyre's capability to uniformly retain air improve fuel efficiency.

Another important advantage from a safety point of view takes care of a problem none of us have control over: punctures! Ever experienced a high-speed blowout? There have been a number of gruesome high-speed fatalities on the Mumbai-Pune expressway caused by tyre blowouts.

At speeds in excess of 100kmph high temperatures are generated. These high temperatures expand (in some cases this tube is over-inflated too which only aggravates the situation) the tube and a sudden sharp penetration at high speed causes the tube to burst very easily. The air expelled at high pressure forces its way out of the tyre from around the rim and the tube valve hole. In some cases the pressure exerted by this escaping air is strong enough to rip open the tyre. A burst tyre causes a sudden loss in traction which is sufficient to throw the vehicle off course violently.

In a tubeless tyre penetrations into the tyre are sealed off by the rubber itself. As a result, leakage of air does not take place and if it does, it is minimal. Over-inflation can still cause grievous harm but the hazards from punctures in a tubeless tyre are greatly reduced. In case of a total loss of air inside the tyre, it is likely that the bead will collapse inside the rim-well rather than come off it.

Other tube troubles include ballooning, open splice, spurious tubes, pinholes, tube mounting damage and finally the cost of a tube and its maintenance, all of which are avoided with tubeless tyres.

Tubeless tyres present a very good case for themselves. They are a welcome foot forward in tyre technology that the world has accepted decades ago. Wonder why they have not found widespread acceptance in the Indian market as yet?

Source : Indiacar

Dippy · 16th March 2004, 18:51

Thats some real good info there V12.. Hope that helps you navin....

Cheers

Rehaan · 17th March 2004, 00:24

Hey Navin,

The above article states the basic advantages of tubeless tyres. To answer your other questions >

"Someone told me that they fit tubes in tubeless tyres too in India"> This is only worth doing if you happen to have a puncture in your tubeless tire and there is no-one around who can repair the tubless tire (small town along the highway or something), then a tube may be put in it just to get you to a proper facility for repairing the tubeless tires. Fitting a tube in a tubeless tire will not give any sort of added security against blow-outs or other such tyre failure, but instead will increase the possibility of it happening!

About the alloys, there are several advantages (maybe we will start a new topic about that) but i will tell u the advantages with regard to tubeless tires>
Tubesless tires require a good seal between the rim and the tire bead as they do not have tubes to retain the air. Alloys are superior for tubeless tires since>
1. The do not deform/dent/bend out of shape at the rim as easily as steel wheels do, hence the air seal is kept tight.
2. Alloys do not rust like steel wheels do, hence good seal.
3. Alloys tend to dissipate heat better and this prolongs tire life as heat is the tires enemy.

Hopefully will get that alloy info up as soon as i have the time
cya
Rehaan

Revvmaster · 18th March 2004, 02:02

To add to what Rehaan has mentioned about alloys:

1. Alloys reduce the unsprung weight of the car, therefore dynamically improving the ride and handling of the car to a certain degree (depending on the type of alloys, the tyres)

2. Alloys also aid in better dissipation of heat, thereby cooling brakes and tyres faster than on steel rims.

Revvmaster

toyota · 18th March 2004, 08:23

The only reason why Tubeless is not popular is , the servicabilty .
Most often owners ask , what if , if it get punchered !!!
Even a with tube one get punchered .
But now slowly the tubeless is getting popular . So soon even a small puncture shops guys will know how to handle it .

navin · 23rd March 2004, 14:56

thanks guys....the reason i asked....my wife's opel sail was ordered with tubless tyres/alloy wheels. one evening she got a flat. she noticed it before she got into the car.

she managed to flag down a taxi driver who took the tyre to a petrol station a few yards down the road. when they opened the tyre there was a tube inside.

When I came to know of this I was livid. I called National Garage and told them that I had paid for tubeless tyres etc...and they told me that they had put a tube inside the tubeless tyre.

how am i supposed to determine if the they are tell the truth? Now I fear they have charged me for a allow wheel but might not have provided them either. These alloy wheels were expensive but i wanted original OPEL equipment. How can I determine if I got what I paid for?

What I can determine is that the tyres are 14" as opposed to the standard 13" tyres they usually sell the car with.

Rehaan · 23rd March 2004, 15:22

Hey Navin,

This should help you out>

"and they told me that they had put a tube inside the tubeless tyre."
This is a possibility, but it is worse in terms of safety than a standard tubed tire in my point of view.
The way to check if your TIRES are tubeless or not is to read on the sidewall of the tire...either it will say "TUBE TYPE" or "TUBELESS".

"Now I fear they have charged me for a allow wheel but might not have provided them either."
Navin, im not sure if you are asking how to check if you have alloys or they have just given you the standard steel wheels, but i shall tell you anyway ;-]
Alloys are solid metal, no plastic peices (except for the ~1"diameter plastic circle in the center), there should be large gaps in between the spokes through which you would be able to see through to the cars disc brakes.
If you have steel wheels they will be dull, not shiny unless there is hubcap placed on top, which can be felt and is very obviously made of plastic.

You did mention that the tires are 14" though (ie they probably say "175/60R14" or somehting ending in a "14" on the tire wall. My guess is that they have provided you larger tires as a result of fitting alloys.

"but i wanted original OPEL equipment. How can I determine if I got what I paid for?"
Navin, im not 100% sure but i think the "original opel equipment" in india is considered to be the alloys manufactured in india. That is, the dealers are linked with them and this is the original equipment they supply. Rest assured, the indian brands, Aura/Neo etc have good levels of quality control. Im having trouble remembering whats on the Sail...i seem to remember aura 5spokes? someone please help me out on this point.

Overall, i think the only issue is whether they have given you tubeless tires on not, check that out yourself as i mentioned above.
Get back to us on this and we'll be glad to help with further suggestions and advice.

Cya
Rehaan

v12 · 23rd March 2004, 15:55

U said u have a 14-in tyre. So i guess its an alloy wheel cos the standard Sail comes with 13 in steel wheels. 14 in alloys are optional.
So u only have to check the tyres. rehaan is right. check the sidewall.

v12 · 23rd March 2004, 16:00

BTW , heres a Sail with alloys.

toyota · 23rd March 2004, 19:49

it isnt looking that good

gamerno1 · 22nd March 2005, 20:16

i am getting new tyres for my zen tomorrow. mostly bridgestone 13" tubeless. any suggestions?

Shan2nu · 22nd March 2005, 21:01

Quote:

i am getting new tyres for my zen tomorrow. mostly bridgestone 13" tubeless. any suggestions?

Dude, if it's gonna be Bridgestone then it has to be the G3. Got them on my Vtec and the results are extraordinary. You gotta experience it to believe it.

You can select the tyre size from this table, depending on your car and need.

Bridgestone Potenza G3 - tyre size table

Shan2nu

gamerno1 · 22nd March 2005, 23:14

lets see shan. actually i am a bit low on budget. going to buy them tomorrow. any ideas how much will they cost(g3)? any other options to be considered? (apolo, ceat, jk)

Shan2nu · 22nd March 2005, 23:19

Quote:

lets see shan. actually i am a bit low on budget. going to buy them tomorrow. any ideas how much will they cost(g3)? any other options to be considered? (apolo, ceat, jk)

Well in Bbay, 195/60 R14 G3s cost 3300. What size are you looking for? For the Zen, you will surely get them for less than 3000 per tyre.

As for Apollo, Ceat and Jk, i have no experience with those.

Shan2nu

16th March 2004, 17:46	#1
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,517 Times	Q: What are the advantages of tubless tyres (and while we are it Alloy Wheels) over the old fashioned tubed tyres. Someone told me that they fit tubes in tubeless tyres too in India.
	() Thanks

16th March 2004, 18:15	#2
v12 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 6,754 Thanked: 7,451 Times View My Garage	THE TUBELESS REVOLUTION - Advantages of a Tubeless Tyre over Conventional Tube Tyre OVERDRIVE advocates the use of tubeless tyres. Why? How much importance do we place on the tyres we use in our vehicles? Where is tyre technology is to in the future? It is essential for vehicle users to be aware of the advantages of tubeless tyres compared to conventional tube tyres. So what exactly are the advantages? The primary advantage of a tubeless tyre is in internal construction and materials used. A tubed tyre is vulnerable to friction and heat generated between the tube and the inner surface of the tube which reduces life of the tube. In a tubeless tyre the inner layer of the tyre is the tube itself. This layer is made of a material like halo-butyl/chlorobutyl which is basically resistant to heat and reduces permeation of air. The weight of the tube inside a tyre adds to the unsprung weight affecting handling characteristics and overall performance. The lack of a tube reduces unsprung weight and improves dynamic ability. The lack of a tube also reduces rolling resistance caused by friction between the tyre and tube. The lower rolling resistance, lesser weight and the tubeless tyre's capability to uniformly retain air improve fuel efficiency. Another important advantage from a safety point of view takes care of a problem none of us have control over: punctures! Ever experienced a high-speed blowout? There have been a number of gruesome high-speed fatalities on the Mumbai-Pune expressway caused by tyre blowouts. At speeds in excess of 100kmph high temperatures are generated. These high temperatures expand (in some cases this tube is over-inflated too which only aggravates the situation) the tube and a sudden sharp penetration at high speed causes the tube to burst very easily. The air expelled at high pressure forces its way out of the tyre from around the rim and the tube valve hole. In some cases the pressure exerted by this escaping air is strong enough to rip open the tyre. A burst tyre causes a sudden loss in traction which is sufficient to throw the vehicle off course violently. In a tubeless tyre penetrations into the tyre are sealed off by the rubber itself. As a result, leakage of air does not take place and if it does, it is minimal. Over-inflation can still cause grievous harm but the hazards from punctures in a tubeless tyre are greatly reduced. In case of a total loss of air inside the tyre, it is likely that the bead will collapse inside the rim-well rather than come off it. Other tube troubles include ballooning, open splice, spurious tubes, pinholes, tube mounting damage and finally the cost of a tube and its maintenance, all of which are avoided with tubeless tyres. Tubeless tyres present a very good case for themselves. They are a welcome foot forward in tyre technology that the world has accepted decades ago. Wonder why they have not found widespread acceptance in the Indian market as yet? Source : Indiacar
	() Thanks

16th March 2004, 18:51	#3
Dippy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 7,601 Thanked: 2,785 Times	Thats some real good info there V12.. Hope that helps you navin.... Cheers
	() Thanks

17th March 2004, 00:24	#4
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,294 Thanked: 35,323 Times	Hey Navin, The above article states the basic advantages of tubeless tyres. To answer your other questions > "Someone told me that they fit tubes in tubeless tyres too in India"> This is only worth doing if you happen to have a puncture in your tubeless tire and there is no-one around who can repair the tubless tire (small town along the highway or something), then a tube may be put in it just to get you to a proper facility for repairing the tubeless tires. Fitting a tube in a tubeless tire will not give any sort of added security against blow-outs or other such tyre failure, but instead will increase the possibility of it happening! About the alloys, there are several advantages (maybe we will start a new topic about that) but i will tell u the advantages with regard to tubeless tires> Tubesless tires require a good seal between the rim and the tire bead as they do not have tubes to retain the air. Alloys are superior for tubeless tires since> 1. The do not deform/dent/bend out of shape at the rim as easily as steel wheels do, hence the air seal is kept tight. 2. Alloys do not rust like steel wheels do, hence good seal. 3. Alloys tend to dissipate heat better and this prolongs tire life as heat is the tires enemy. Hopefully will get that alloy info up as soon as i have the time cya Rehaan
	() Thanks

18th March 2004, 02:02	#5
Revvmaster Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,190 Thanked: 96 Times	To add to what Rehaan has mentioned about alloys: 1. Alloys reduce the unsprung weight of the car, therefore dynamically improving the ride and handling of the car to a certain degree (depending on the type of alloys, the tyres) 2. Alloys also aid in better dissipation of heat, thereby cooling brakes and tyres faster than on steel rims. Revvmaster
	() Thanks

18th March 2004, 08:23	#6
toyota BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: bangalore Posts: 148 Thanked: 3 Times	The only reason why Tubeless is not popular is , the servicabilty . Most often owners ask , what if , if it get punchered !!! Even a with tube one get punchered . But now slowly the tubeless is getting popular . So soon even a small puncture shops guys will know how to handle it .
	() Thanks

23rd March 2004, 14:56	#7
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 25,324 Thanked: 9,517 Times	thanks guys....the reason i asked....my wife's opel sail was ordered with tubless tyres/alloy wheels. one evening she got a flat. she noticed it before she got into the car. she managed to flag down a taxi driver who took the tyre to a petrol station a few yards down the road. when they opened the tyre there was a tube inside. When I came to know of this I was livid. I called National Garage and told them that I had paid for tubeless tyres etc...and they told me that they had put a tube inside the tubeless tyre. how am i supposed to determine if the they are tell the truth? Now I fear they have charged me for a allow wheel but might not have provided them either. These alloy wheels were expensive but i wanted original OPEL equipment. How can I determine if I got what I paid for? What I can determine is that the tyres are 14" as opposed to the standard 13" tyres they usually sell the car with.
	() Thanks

23rd March 2004, 15:22	#8
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,294 Thanked: 35,323 Times	Hey Navin, This should help you out> "and they told me that they had put a tube inside the tubeless tyre." This is a possibility, but it is worse in terms of safety than a standard tubed tire in my point of view. The way to check if your TIRES are tubeless or not is to read on the sidewall of the tire...either it will say "TUBE TYPE" or "TUBELESS". "Now I fear they have charged me for a allow wheel but might not have provided them either." Navin, im not sure if you are asking how to check if you have alloys or they have just given you the standard steel wheels, but i shall tell you anyway ;-] Alloys are solid metal, no plastic peices (except for the ~1"diameter plastic circle in the center), there should be large gaps in between the spokes through which you would be able to see through to the cars disc brakes. If you have steel wheels they will be dull, not shiny unless there is hubcap placed on top, which can be felt and is very obviously made of plastic. You did mention that the tires are 14" though (ie they probably say "175/60R14" or somehting ending in a "14" on the tire wall. My guess is that they have provided you larger tires as a result of fitting alloys. "but i wanted original OPEL equipment. How can I determine if I got what I paid for?" Navin, im not 100% sure but i think the "original opel equipment" in india is considered to be the alloys manufactured in india. That is, the dealers are linked with them and this is the original equipment they supply. Rest assured, the indian brands, Aura/Neo etc have good levels of quality control. Im having trouble remembering whats on the Sail...i seem to remember aura 5spokes? someone please help me out on this point. Overall, i think the only issue is whether they have given you tubeless tires on not, check that out yourself as i mentioned above. Get back to us on this and we'll be glad to help with further suggestions and advice. Cya Rehaan
	() Thanks

23rd March 2004, 15:55	#9
v12 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 6,754 Thanked: 7,451 Times View My Garage	U said u have a 14-in tyre. So i guess its an alloy wheel cos the standard Sail comes with 13 in steel wheels. 14 in alloys are optional. So u only have to check the tyres. rehaan is right. check the sidewall.
	() Thanks

23rd March 2004, 16:00	#10
v12 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 6,754 Thanked: 7,451 Times View My Garage	BTW , heres a Sail with alloys.
	() Thanks

23rd March 2004, 19:49	#11
toyota BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: bangalore Posts: 148 Thanked: 3 Times	it isnt looking that good
	() Thanks

22nd March 2005, 20:16	#12
gamerno1 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Andheri (w), Mumbai Posts: 408 Thanked: 0 Times View My Garage	i am getting new tyres for my zen tomorrow. mostly bridgestone 13" tubeless. any suggestions?
	() Thanks

22nd March 2005, 23:14	#14
gamerno1 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Andheri (w), Mumbai Posts: 408 Thanked: 0 Times View My Garage	lets see shan. actually i am a bit low on budget. going to buy them tomorrow. any ideas how much will they cost(g3)? any other options to be considered? (apolo, ceat, jk)
	() Thanks