[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by zeng

With gadgets on the front wheels only method of alignment, do you find the steering wheel slightly off centre to one side (left or right) whislt driving straight ahead with hand input holding on to the steering wheel?

Without steering wheel input, any drifting/pulling to one side whilst driving straight ahead in your car?

I have an OCD when it comes to wheel alignment.

I've understood both your questions and no, the steering is not "cross" nor does the car pull to one side

[audioholic]

For me, electronics all the way. Firstly, Modern cars need modern methods. Secondly, the overall result of the wheel alignment is due to a combination of a good machine and an experienced operator. Doesn't matter if it's a 3D aligner or a scale. So the old timer who has spent a few decades on a manual measuring equipment would swear by that and obtain a good result whereas a modern 3D aligner in it's perfect condition will be the modern technicians choice.

The other aspect is the precision. Most of the times my car requires a correction of less ten minutes, which is 1/10th of a degree in toe. I am not sure if manual alignment can achieve such perfection. That said, this is applicable to toe adjustment only. In my Innova, even camber and caster needs to be adjusted which is again in terms of a degree at most and yet it would immediately make a difference in the steering. Once I had got the wheel alignment done at Toyota with a 3D aligner, and immediately repeated in my preferred shop and it was pretty off which points out to either a faulty machine or poor workmanship. Premium cars with even complex suspension needs much more work and expertise and hence you will find higher chances of results not being satisfactory.

Hence, unless the computerised system has got messed up due to bad calibration or maintenance, or the operator is really poor, you can't match the sort of precision that the machine offers compared to using a manual scale. The max the manual scale can achieve is a correct toe setting and total toe which will resolve major pulling issues. But there is a lot more to alignment. So I would leave the manual machines to the Era of the Ambassadors and Padminis. In fact the only time my SX4 was aligned in a manual thread based aligner in Iyengar tyres which was once a major shop, it was a messed up job and they had to take trials multiple times to get it right. Compared to that, I have visited Madhus and Tyre professionals over 50 times now, and not a single time were my cars test driven after alignment for any rework and nor had I returned to them prematurely due to something not being right. Thats the precision of the machines.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by audioholic

The max the manual scale can achieve is a correct toe setting and total toe which will resolve major pulling issues. But there is a lot more to alignment. So I would leave the manual machines to the Era of the Ambassadors and Padminis. In fact the only time my SX4 was aligned in a manual thread based aligner in Iyengar tyres which was once a major shop, it was a messed up job and they had to take trials multiple times to get it right. Compared to that, I have visited Madhus and Tyre professionals over 50 times now, and not a single time were my cars test driven after alignment for any rework and nor had I returned to them prematurely due to something not being right. Thats the precision of the machines.

These scales do have caster, camber as well - you can see it if you zoom into the image on the earlier post. Most of the times people come here to correct problems that were created by some other alignment shop or service centers who get yelled at by customers for screwing up the alignment of their car.

I have come across very good technicians who uses digital machines too however most of them are not ready to test drive the vehicles 3-4 times as needed for a thorough job. There was one fellow who I met in Spectrum tyres - Kochi (Gulf return) who followed the same process as manual alignment guys but used a hunter hawk or some fancy machine - alignment job was perfect.

I think it's a combination of good machine and experienced technicians. You are more likely to find an old timer with a scale than a digital machine, that's all. In the event that you are exasperated with all the digital fellows - this is the last resort.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

These scales do have caster, camber as well
I have come across very good technicians who uses digital machines too however most of them are not ready to test drive the vehicles 3-4 times as needed for a thorough job. .

I still don't believe test driving the car is a necessity with a good machine. At least that has been my experience in the last 10 years of getting all the cars at home aligned regularly. Not even once was my car driven around and yet the results are perfect. I am someone who can feel the slightest change in toe and head to the shop and this usually happens after 5k kms or after driving through really bad roads.

[sagarpadaki]

I have never tried the manual alignment way on my cars although have come across shops which do it.

In FWD cars with torsion beam rear suspension setup, the only thing that can be adjusted corrected is the toe.

If caster is out, it is mostly due to a bent or damanged lower arm or the ball joint or the bushing. This can be fixed by replacing the lower arm or replacing the components of the lower arm.

If camber is out, then it is very difficult to fix if damage is to the chassis in modern monocoque cars. Because this is determined by the angle between the knuckle center the center of the strut mount on the chassis apron. The car must have taken some serious hit sideways for the camber to go out of spec.

I would prefer a digital alignment because I get to see the values and also get a printed report of the specs before and after.

[Cresterk]

I have heard some knowledgeable people abroad swear by manual alignment, especially the old string method and how it's better than any new fangled laser machine. Maybe there is some truth to it.

[Sankar]

Its the alignment tech's skill is what matters for a perfect wheel alignment, and he/she can be using either oldschool method or computerised aligners. Properly calibrated computerised aligners are more precise than manual aligners.

Long ago manual alignment was the norm and when computerised alignment devices were being introduced the shops which could afford the modern computerised equipment had that in bold in front of their shops to attract customers. Now computerised alignment is the norm and manual aligners and their operators are almost extinct. But those who remain only remain because they are probably very skilled and experts at what they do and they still get business.

And these experts who use manual aligners could repeat the same awesome job if they are given a computerised alignment machine and basic training on how to operate it. The alignment is done using brain, hands and hand tools; the john bean or hunter or servex is a scale that shows readings and experts who can read it properly and knows what to do next to get the intended readings will do that irrespective of the machine.

It boils down to the tech doing the alignment and not the machine. Modern alignment machines are superior and precise and its a shame if the tech cannot use it properly.

[JediKnight]

I don't care about the tools as long as I get the results. As someone who works on cutting edge technology day in and day out, I am not awed by technology. What matters most is understanding of basic principles that never change. You can achieve terrific results by using simple tools if you know what you are doing.

[Nalin Kumar]

My bad! My daughter had swimming classes last summer in the Floating Arena which is the very next compound, and I used to park my car longer right here, and always noticed some higher budget cars around. But never thought this to be wheel alignment in the classic way. Great learning, thanks!

BTW, I get it done from my tyre dealer (Yokohama) and has good personal connect with them and appear to have good knowledge. I pay 400 and if I am not okay with, they are always willing to do multiple times till I get the smile on my face. If a Fiesta doesn't align its steering, then it is better to stop driving. Ironically, I had horrible experience with Ford ASC alignment, charges high, great looking print outs of values given, but always pulls to the side, and jerks more.

[sidzz]

I got my XUV500 wheel alignment done the manual way at Deluxe wheel alignment at Bhattrahalli, Bangalore.

2 places with computerized wheel alignment were not able to fix the left pulling issue. One of them said, this is how all XUV500 behave.

Naumaan, at Deluxe wheel alignment did the magic.

[rahul_kej]

Just few months back I had an issue of right pull in my Tata Punch.
During 2nd free service I had ask the service centre for wheel aligment.

They could'nt find any fault while checking up the alignment in the system. Finally they used the old school method of using string to align the tires and it was perfectly fine after the minor adjustments.

[srh]

Given the way the mechanics operate equipment at the 'computerized' wheel alignment centers, I have my doubts whether the calibration of equipment is what it needs to be to give accurate outcomes. Thus a manual setting by an experienced hand is certainly a good option.

[mugen_pinaki27]

Recently got my WagonR manually aligned from the local FNG. The guy, Wasim, was courteous and aligned the car so well that it ran like a factory-fresh car without any left-side pulling or quirkiness. My friend also got his Alto aligned from Wasim and he had only good things to say post driving the perfectly aligned car. Wasim is based out of Mohan Singh Market, INA, New Delhi. His brother, Faizan, does the wheel balancing out of a petrol-pump outlet in Chanakyapuri, just opposite of Chanakya mall.

[jeeva]

None of the fancy wheel alignment shops atleast in Bangalore will dare to fix camber and castor. Its just the toe values that they are interested in, and its all alignment done!
These guys (Vijay/Deluxe and similar ones) have been around since a very long time, and they know their stuff. All my vehicles with IFS and offset rims (Thar/Bolero/Scorpio/Safari/Sierra) had to pay Vijay or Deluxe, the customary visit to correct camber and caster values. And that is a painstaking process in itself (camber bolts/adding, removing shims). I'd any day trust these guys over the fancy computerised wheel alignment shops, atleast for SUVs with IFS.

About the printouts in digital wheel alignment shops, if you observe carefully, they first "print" it out or show you the display (all green and within tolerance), and then proceed to torque the bolts. They never show you the values after that, and the reason is obvious.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by jeeva

About the printouts in digital wheel alignment shops, if you observe carefully, they first "print" it out or show you the display (all green and within tolerance), and then proceed to torque the bolts. They never show you the values after that, and the reason is obvious.

Sorry, I did not understand. Why do they do this?