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View Poll Results: What should I buy based on my requirements?
Honda City 179 62.81%
Kia Seltos 28 9.82%
Hyundai Creta 21 7.37%
Something else 57 20.00%
Voters: 285. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 30th December 2020, 16:31   #76
rpm
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
I think some of these 10-20 kg differences may be attributed to what production spec car is actually used for government records, although the difference in GVW is interesting.Maybe they are allowed to haul more weight for any specific kind of luggage/cargo that is unique to the region-just a wild guess.
That sounds plausible.

Quote:
Also, going thru the SA-Hyundai website, I observed that all trims of the Creta have manual aircon, no premium 10.25in ICE/Bose speakers. Thats interesting.
Very Interesting indeed. Comparing Hyundai India and Hyundai Africa's brochure, I found that all the engines have the same power and torque outputs for the same rpm bands as the Indian Creta.
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Old 30th December 2020, 16:33   #77
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by rpm View Post
I concur. It's purely speculative on my part and the hypothetical question was aimed at considering the possibility of such a scenario;
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
I think some of these 10-20 kg differences may be attributed to what production spec car is actually used for government records, although the difference in GVW is interesting.
Let me simplify this game - I own the Maruti Ignis and it has a flimsy Build quality. The car has caught some dimples due to people leaning over it - such is the Build quality. (Nothing surprising given that most Maruti cars based on Heartect Platform are of the same quality)

Now the India made Ignis sold in SA got a higher safety score as per GNCAP (Link) as compared to Kia Seltos - so obviously we can infer that the Crash Safety is something else in terms of engineering as compared to a "Door Thud" or a "Bonnet Weight" or "Kerb/Gross Weight". So let us not start equating the "feel" of Build Quality to "Safety" during a crash.

It is not possible to easily make out where the Manufacturer has cut corners in terms of High Strength Steel as was observed from this thread here on the India made Seltos : > (Kia Seltos body structure facts & comparison with the Hyundai Creta)

Last edited by vsrivatsa : 30th December 2020 at 16:40.
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Old 30th December 2020, 16:48   #78
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post

It is not possible to easily make out where the Manufacturer has cut corners in terms of High Strength Steel as was observed from this thread here on the India made Seltos : > (Kia Seltos body structure facts & comparison with the Hyundai Creta)
In fact the whole argument of heavier vs lighter vehicle collision can be rendered moot under specific circumstances as shown in the real life scenario below where an Endeavour was knocked off by a puny Santro. Hence all "controlled environment" tests should be assessed in context.



I know this is getting a bit OT, but still overall in line with @sam264's decision making process.

Last edited by fhdowntheline : 30th December 2020 at 16:55.
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Old 30th December 2020, 17:57   #79
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by vsrivatsa View Post
Now the India made Ignis sold in SA got a higher safety score as per GNCAP (Link) as compared to Kia Seltos - so obviously we can infer that the Crash Safety is something else in terms of engineering as compared to a "Door Thud" or a "Bonnet Weight" or "Kerb/Gross Weight". So let us not start equating the "feel" of Build Quality to "Safety" during a crash.

It is not possible to easily make out where the Manufacturer has cut corners in terms of High Strength Steel as was observed from this thread here on the India made Seltos : > (Kia Seltos body structure facts & comparison with the Hyundai Creta)
With all due respect sir, I don't think any of us made the mistake of equating perceived build quality (read door thud/kerb/gross weight and so on) to actual build quality. The discussion started around the IIHS study which showed that, in case of all cars having a good crash rating, passangers in the heavier/bigger vehicle sustain less injuries as compared to the passengers of lighter/smaller vehicles, hence being better protected. Instead of the example given by you, a better estimate of the discussion at hand would be, if the Honda Mobilio collided with the African Ignis, both having a 3 star GNCAP rating and a comparable score of 9.85 (Mobilio) vs 9.99 (Ignis), it might be plausible to think that the Mobilio may offer better crash protection in case of collision by virtue of being heavier (Kerb weight 1131 Kg vs 850-860 Kg ) because these tests are designed to mimic a crash at 50km/h with the same/identical vehicle. The point I was trying to make was: without GNCAP ratings for both the City and the Creta, it may not be wise to consider Creta more crash worthy/safer just by virtue of its weight.

With respect to the the other thread, I have read it and a similar thread by BHPian RSR, and I do agree it is not easy to perceive the cost cutting in structural components without crash data available. Those threads did give insight into cost cutting in the form of absence of Ultra High Strength Steel components in certain Hyundai/Kia cars but also noted that it was perfectly possible to make a safe car with just high strength steel, as was the case with previous gen Creta tested by Latin NCAP (not the Indian model though), making it all the more difficult to discern without crash tests.

Sources for the kerb weights: Suzuki Africa's website, TBHP review of Mobilio (I could neither find the product on Honda India's page because of the model being discontinued, nor any owner manuals)

Edit: Just saw the above post by fhdowntheline and I agree with him about the controlled environment part. I would like to add that the crashes mentioned in all my posts refer to frontal crashes. Also, I profusely apologize to sam264_2000 because I realise that this is getting a little off topic.

Last edited by rpm : 30th December 2020 at 18:05.
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Old 30th December 2020, 18:42   #80
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

Hi sam264_2000,

I haven't gone through your entire thread. But looking at your requirements, Ciaz Petrol AT would also be a good option. It will provide you the space with 1.5 lit engine and give you a peace of mind during the ownership.

Petrol will make sense with your usage pattern (60,000 km running in 6 years and 80% in the city). And a sedan will save your family from the motion sickness.

Low end torque: hardly any car has high low end torque. But AT will adjust the gears accordingly. You won't feel shortage of torque in the city or on the highway. And 80% of your running is in the city.

All disc brakes: Don't worry. As long as the brakes are good, leave it to the manufacturer. There is a thread on this, which explains that just providing rear discs isn't enough. The front discs then need to be sized bigger. This attracts weight penalty and cost penalty too. In my decades of car ownership and lakhs of km under the belt with frequest highway trips over long distances, I never had problems with front discs and rear drums.

Hill hold: I think almost all AT boxes provide this. I haven't yet checked with Ciaz AT.

Traction control: With properly maintained tyres and brakes and with sane driving ( maybe fast but anticipative and not reckless), a good sedan with ABS and EBD will be safe in this aspect. Don't always go by the title of the feature. How it performs in crucial situations is another thing.

Will not suggest Honda City for quality reasons. Pre 2012 or Pre 2014 Honda City would have been a different thing.

Creta: Yes, big car. But luggage space?

Seltos: Luggage space again. And buy only if you want to look at the bling, ignoring safety. I hope that you have been reading the threads on the forum.

Last edited by Rahul Bhalgat : 30th December 2020 at 18:46.
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Old 30th December 2020, 18:53   #81
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm View Post
The point I was trying to make was: without GNCAP ratings for both the City and the Creta, it may not be wise to consider Creta more crash worthy/safer just by virtue of its weight.
Agree with your point of view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
I haven't gone through your entire thread. But looking at your requirements, Ciaz Petrol AT would also be a good option. It will provide you the space with 1.5 lit engine and give you a peace of mind during the ownership.
Agree Ciaz is definitely another VFM option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
Will not suggest Honda City for quality reasons. Pre 2012 or Pre 2014 Honda City would have been a different thing.
Unfortunately Pre-2014 City was not known for space and had an even worse bottom scraping problem as compared to the 2014 Model due to very low GC.

While it is true that there were issues reported, Honda sorted out the problems/niggles of the 2014 City by around the 2016 timeframe. I think in the 2014 Model certain batches certainly had several problems but the consistency improved a lot post 2016. Due to the high sales volumes during the 2014-16 period Honda certainly messed up the quality control.

Another positive is that in the current market scenario the Sedan sales are at a low point and it is easy for any manufacturer to improve quality levels when the volumes are low. So I would not worry about the quality levels in the 5th Gen City.
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Old 30th December 2020, 19:17   #82
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

I do not wish to discourage you from buying the City because every car has niggles and one-offs. I came across this video of a 5th Gen City owner a week or so ago, but forgot about it. I was reminded of the same when someone asked for the link on the Honda City thread. Have a look, may be of utility to you.

Last edited by rpm : 30th December 2020 at 19:21.
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Old 30th December 2020, 20:05   #83
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm View Post
I do not wish to discourage you from buying the City because every car has niggles and one-offs. I came across this video of a 5th Gen City owner a week or so ago, but forgot about it. I was reminded of the same when someone asked for the link on the Honda City thread. Have a look, may be of utility to you. https://Youtu.be/4YhWHZWra5s
Thanks rpm. I have seen this video. Honda has taken this City back for inspection.

Last edited by sam264_2000 : 30th December 2020 at 20:05. Reason: Formatting
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Old 4th January 2021, 19:48   #84
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
You could also take a look at the Duster CVT which has a slightly squarish boot space (475 litres)…
Thanks fhdowntheline. I like Duster for its rugged looks and ride quality but find it expensive as a package. I would rather pick Creta over Duster if crossover was a must for me or in fact just retain Zest With the dated interiors and lack of some of the must have features in my list, I’m not considering it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat View Post
Hi sam264_2000,
I haven't gone through your entire thread. But looking at your requirements, Ciaz Petrol AT would also be a good option. It will provide you the space with 1.5 lit engine and give you a peace of mind during the ownership…..
Thanks Rahul Bhalgat. Ciaz is a lovely VFM sedan with loads of space and comfort. It would have been a serious consideration but for the 4 speed TC. I am not too rigid on “All disc brakes” requirement.
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Old 4th January 2021, 20:56   #85
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

I thought the Duster CVT , is, pound for pound, equal or better than Creta/ Seltos at the 16-17 lac OTR price point. The only thing it lacks is an ergonomically mounted ICE.
It is more powerful than either the diesel or petrol Creta/ Seltos, is equally spacious and more off- road worthy. The higher variants of the Koreans is where the value is obtained with 17in alloys, 10.25 ICE with the Bose system, sunroof , DCT etc. And of course, 6 airbags.
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Old 4th January 2021, 21:55   #86
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
I thought the Duster CVT , is, pound for pound, equal or better than Creta/ Seltos at the 16-17 lac OTR price point. The only thing it lacks is an ergonomically mounted ICE.
It is more powerful than either the diesel or petrol Creta/ Seltos, is equally spacious and more off- road worthy. The higher variants of the Koreans is where the value is obtained with 17in alloys, 10.25 ICE with the Bose system, sunroof , DCT etc. And of course, 6 airbags.
Right. I am considering only top variants, so I am comparing only those. That's what my comment referred to.
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Old 9th January 2021, 14:11   #87
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

Update: Looks like the Hyundai and Kia dealers close to my home are not too eager to make a selling effort. Hyundai dealer couldn't offer a TD for 2 weeks (2 weekends to be exact) whereas Kia didn't budge to get the TD car at my apartment which is a must for me to validate the parking requirements. In fact Hyundai was like book the car now just by looking at the showroom car as the waiting period is 6 to 8 weeks. Will get in touch with other dealers now. Let's see how things move from here.
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Old 9th January 2021, 15:01   #88
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by sam264_2000 View Post
Update: Looks like the Hyundai and Kia dealers close to my home are not too eager to make a selling effort. Hyundai dealer couldn't offer a TD for 2 weeks (2 weekends to be exact) whereas Kia didn't budge to get the TD car at my apartment which is a must for me to validate the parking requirements. In fact Hyundai was like book the car now just by looking at the showroom car as the waiting period is 6 to 8 weeks. Will get in touch with other dealers now. Let's see how things move from here.
Same thing happened to me in Dream Hyundai, Noida. Salesman was least bothered to show me cars and refused a test drive for any of the cars. I think Hyundai dealers are getting too smug about their market share like Honda earlier.
Decided to skip Hyundai for now as I haven't driven a Creta yet.
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Old 10th January 2021, 23:09   #89
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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Originally Posted by sam264_2000 View Post
Update: Looks like the Hyundai and Kia dealers close to my home are not too eager to make a selling effort. Hyundai dealer couldn't offer a TD for 2 weeks (2 weekends to be exact) whereas Kia didn't budge to get the TD car at my apartment which is a must for me to validate the parking requirements. In fact Hyundai was like book the car now just by looking at the showroom car as the waiting period is 6 to 8 weeks. Will get in touch with other dealers now. Let's see how things move from here.
Yes, I too had the similar experience with most Hyundai dealers (Kia was better off) in Pune. One of them even had the audacity to say we don’t offer test drive for any car. No one even tried calling back to check after my initial enquiry. The only exception was Kothari Hyundai who offered multiple test drives (3 in all). Ended up booking from them.
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Old 11th January 2021, 10:33   #90
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Default Re: Upgrading from a Tata Zest - City or Creta or Seltos?

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The only exception was Kothari Hyundai who offered multiple test drives (3 in all). Ended up booking from them.
Thanks, will check with Kothari Hyundai.
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