[dvasudreddy]

Originally Posted by ron178

The GNCAP's offset deformable barrier crash test alone is today too narrow to be even close to an overall measure of relative safety. It also gives far too much attention to protection of less important body parts like the feet.

I'd recommending eliminating those cars that have problematic head or chest protection in the GNCAP's test, but what you should also be looking for - and what other safety ratings worldwide include - are:
-better safety assist technologies (electronic stability control, tyre pressure monitoring, etc.)
-better protection in more types of crashes (eg. side airbags for the torso and head)

Most likely the Indian one should be 5 stars. The test car was an African-market car which was disqualified from five stars only for not having a passenger-side seatbelt reminder (required by law in India). However it has very bad safety equipment otherwise. And...

In the GNCAP crash test of the Amaze the 1.5 year-old's child seat was ejected because the armrest struck it, and the 3 year-old's head made hard contact with the interior (this was using the Maxi-Cosi seats Honda selected in Africa). In the Altroz, the the backrest unlatched during the crash and the 3 year-old's head moved forward excessively (this was using a Britax seat).

Long story short, the dynamic performance of the child dummies was far from ideal in both the Altroz and Amaze. The Punch, Urban Cruiser and i20 had much better performance. The Amaze might do better with the Joyson Neo child seats Honda sells as an original accessory in India but we can't say that for sure yet.

Unfortunately in this segment you're going to have to compromise somewhere. The Altroz and Amaze have bad child dynamics and almost no safety assist technologies, the Punch and Jazz have almost no safety assist technologies, the i20 had problems with head and chest protection in the GNCAP's test, etc.

If I had to pick, the new Maruti Brezza might have more 'balanced' safety: the Urban Cruiser (based on the previous Brezza) did well for adults and children, and ESC is now standard equipment.

Thanks for taking pain in explaining things, it certainly did help in filling few knowledge gaps. Can you please direct me to somewhere when I can find more about safety assist technologies, and what should I have in my car. That would be of great help. Google searches are always resulting contradictory opinions from one piece to other.

[dvasudreddy]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Welcome to Team-BHP!

As a previous gen Amaze owner with the same 1.2L L12B petrol engine and 5 speed auto (CVT came in 2014) I can assure you it’s a very underpowered vehicle that can be outright dangerous in single lane highway overtaking manoeuvres, and I’m talking about the 5 speed torque converter auto, the CVT is even slower (look up 0-100 times). It’s also speed limited from the factory to just 145 km/hr. Finally, the Amaze (both 1st and 2nd gen) is also very unstable on highways even with a slight crosswind, or if a heavier vehicle passes you, it tends to sway and drift above 75 km/hr. At higher crosswinds it’s undrivable above 70-80.

Secondly, as a family car the emphasis is on safety, at a minimum I would consider side and curtain airbags and ABS + ESP non negotiables, and none of these cars sub 10L have these. Keep in mind, a NCAP 5 star rated small car is nowhere near as safe as an NCAP 5 star rated larger car, relative mass is very important in any crash.

Also, stay away from AMT’s, from poor reliability to poor performance and very noticeable shift shock on every single gear change make it a terrible transmission choice.

So in summary, if I was in your position I would only be looking at pre owned cars in the budget, which one is your call but if safety and reliability are top priorities consider Corollas from 2015-16, you’ll get excellent ones in 7-8L, also look at 2013 2.4 Accords, you’ll get them at ~6L with the balance 4L for maintenance/parts over the next few years (not that you’ll likely use all of it as it’s so reliable). The difference in performance, build quality, ride and handling, interior and boot space is night and day between my Amaze and Accord. Doesn't make sense to spend 10L of hard earned money on compromised products in my opinion. Cheers.

Well, that answer has definitely has come out of syllabus (in a good way). I was not considering pre owned cars because I was of the opinion the latest cars are having latest technologies (including safety features) like ESP, assisted braking, hill hold control (pardon me if they were older technologies and are now became cheaper to be a part of sub 10 lacs car).

Point I'm trying to make is, aren't the newer cars of 10 lacs segment better than the older (5 years or above) cars of 15 lacs segment when it comes to safety?

[sreerknair]

Originally Posted by ron178

The Amaze might do better with the Joyson Neo child seats Honda sells as an original accessory in India but we can't say that for sure yet.

Do you have more information on the Joyson child seats? I can't find it in Honda India website as well as anywhere in Google. I am looking for a child seat and if manufacturer is providing one as an accessory then I would like to check that first. If you have any links to this child seat, please share.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by dvasudreddy

Point I'm trying to make is, aren't the newer cars of 10 lacs segment better than the older (5 years or above) cars of 15 lacs segment when it comes to safety?

Not at all, in 15-20 years yes in some cases as the partial frontal overlap was not a standardised test back then in the NCAP range of testing, but not in the last 5-8 years definitely. No car sub 10L gets 6 airbags or even ESP, Amaze doesn’t even get hill hold, although that’s more of an assist feature than outright safety.

And to be fair, today you would compare the Amaze (10L) to say the Camry (50L) if comparing new as 10 years ago Amaze was 5-6L and Camry/Accord were 20-25L.

One more point, we got the 8th gen American Accord in India which was a 5 star NCAP + top safety pick for IIHS for many years consecutively during the time it was sold.

The Amaze on the other hand scores 4 stars in the Latin and GNCAP tests which are much less stringent than the NCAP used to evaluate cars for developed markets like ENCAP for EU markets. For eg. a 4 star GNCAP car for developing countries may only score 2-3 stars in the stricter ENCAP and IIHS tests. Also, GNCAP does not test for side impact, pole impact and rollover/roof strength. So how the Amaze does in a side impact is completely unknown

Also, the heavier car always does better in a crash with much lower deceleration and resultant g forces sustained by the passengers leading to lesser injury. See this, both are 5 star rated cars with 6 airbags and yet the Jazz gets crushed.

https://youtu.be/wnLrgIBa2Pg

[ron178]

Originally Posted by sreerknair

Do you have more information on the Joyson child seats? I can't find it in Honda India website as well as anywhere in Google. I am looking for a child seat and if manufacturer is providing one as an accessory then I would like to check that first. If you have any links to this child seat, please share.

I'm not sure if Honda recommends the same ones for the Amaze, IIRC the user handbook recommended getting in touch with a dealer. I think they used to be called Takata Neo if that helps. They're the ones Honda selected for the 4th-gen City crash test.

Originally Posted by dvasudreddy

Thanks for taking pain in explaining things, it certainly did help in filling few knowledge gaps. Can you please direct me to somewhere when I can find more about safety assist technologies, and what should I have in my car. That would be of great help. Google searches are always resulting contradictory opinions from one piece to other.

Unfortunately there aren't many India-specific resources for consumers in this regard. The closest I can find is this guide from the Australasian NCAP but a lot of the technologies on the page are hard to find in this segment in India, at least all at once. Please keep in mind you can't use ANCAP's safety ratings for Indian cars that may look identical.

Originally Posted by AJ56

For eg. a 4 star GNCAP car for developing countries may only score 2-3 stars in the stricter ENCAP and IIHS tests.

Zero. to meet the one-star threshold in the safety assist box you'd need at least some meaningful safety assist tech. This is even in Latin NCAP. Heck, even the Renault Zoe and Dacia Jogger, which are infamous for flunking Euro NCAP, are better equipped than most GNCAP five star cars. Technically, it's not even zero stars, because to be tested by Euro NCAP the Amaze/Altroz etc. would first have to meet legislative safety requirements in Europe, which they most certainly don't.

[dvasudreddy]

Originally Posted by AJ56

One more point, we got the 8th gen American Accord in India which was a 5 star NCAP + top safety pick for IIHS for many years consecutively during the time it was sold.

The Amaze on the other hand scores 4 stars in the Latin and GNCAP tests which are much less stringent than the NCAP used to evaluate cars for developed markets like ENCAP for EU markets. For eg. a 4 star GNCAP car for developing countries may only score 2-3 stars in the stricter ENCAP and IIHS tests. Also, GNCAP does not test for side impact, pole impact and rollover/roof strength. So how the Amaze does in a side impact is completely unknown

https://Youtu.be/wnLrgIBa2Pg

Now, that's a revelation to me. I was under misconception that GNCAP(carrying 'global' in its name) rating is same across the globe. I thought it was the rating people follow 'globally'. Thanks for the heads up. Now, pre-used cars have become a serious consideration.

[dvasudreddy]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Not at all, in 15-20 years yes in some cases as the partial frontal overlap was not a standardised test back then in the NCAP range of testing, but not in the last 5-8 years definitely. No car sub 10L gets 6 airbags or even ESP, Amaze doesn’t even get hill hold, although that’s more of an assist feature than outright safety.

https://Youtu.be/wnLrgIBa2Pg

Is ESP the same as ESC ( Electronic Stability control)? I can see some new cars around 10 lacs bracket is offering the same. Likes of Venue, Magnite (with the nomenclatures Vehicle Dynamic Control and traction control system etc.). Are they same? Or they are just another technical jargon just to confuse buyers?

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Bhupesh_2628

Hyundai i20 has 3 star rating from GNCAP.

Sorry my bad, had missed this somehow.
Thanks for correcting

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by dvasudreddy

Is ESP the same as ESC ( Electronic Stability control)? I can see some new cars around 10 lacs bracket is offering the same. Likes of Venue, Magnite (with the nomenclatures Vehicle Dynamic Control and traction control system etc.). Are they same? Or they are just another technical jargon just to confuse buyers?

Yes ESC stands for electronic stability control, ESP stands for electronic stability programme, same thing. Honda calls it VSM in the Accord (vehicle stability management), it’s the same thing just different names.

Ron is spot on by the way, Amaze would score 0 stars in ENCAP testing. Just test drive the Accord once and you’ll forget about Amaze/Venue/Sonnet I assure you.

[Hispaniola]

Don't exactly remember the post, but somewhere on this forum there is quite a good explanation why Honda CVTs doesn't need hill hold. And I being Amaze Petrol CVT owner, and having done 3.5k+ KMs (1000+ Km in Himachal - MacLeod Ganj and Dalhousie), I can assure you that some sort of Hill hold is there. On very rare occasions car rolled back that too by just few CMs before I accelerated.

And ofcourse on flyovers and speed breakers, there is no rollover given the enough torque by the gearbox. Do take test drive and let us know if you really missed hill hold.

[petrolHead_1609]

Hi,

Reliability seems to be on top of requirement.
Amaze CVT really would be my pick if I were to buy a new car today. 1.2 CVT in amaze is way better than any other 1.2 CVT out there (I've extensively driven i20 AT)

2 alternatives :
1. Can look for pre-owned 5th gen Honda City V CVT. A great package with all the features, 1.5 i-vtec is a gem.
2. A gentleman had suggested you to consider MT if it's your first buy, I feel the same. With 4th gen Honda City out there selling for 9.9L ex-showroom, it just seems to be the most VFM proposition given its NOT a sub 4m pseudo SUV.

[dvasudreddy]

Originally Posted by petrolHead_1609

Hi,

Reliability seems to be on top of requirement.
Amaze CVT really would be my pick if I were to buy a new car today. 1.2 CVT in amaze is way better than any other 1.2 CVT out there (I've extensively driven i20 AT)

2 alternatives :
1. Can look for pre-owned 5th gen Honda City V CVT. A great package with all the features, 1.5 i-vtec is a gem.
2. A gentleman had suggested you to consider MT if it's your first buy, I feel the same. With 4th gen Honda City out there selling for 9.9L ex-showroom, it just seems to be the most VFM proposition given its NOT a sub 4m pseudo SUV.

Now, thats an interesting proposition. New amaze CVT vs City MT 4th gen. I think City would be better than Amaze in every possible way. But, when I see purely specifications, 1.5 lt IVTEc in City 4th Gen is not much better than 1.0 lt turbo in Magnite (raw performance)

[petrolHead_1609]

Originally Posted by dvasudreddy

when I see purely specifications, 1.5 lt IVTEc in City 4th Gen is not much better than 1.0 lt turbo in Magnite (raw performance)

Speaking in isolation for Magnite and City.
Magnite is a VFM offering and offers you more bells and whistles (especially ESP) with AT!

City 4th gen will be more of a refined, reliable, spacious and better lasting in my opinion. Plastics and materials used are not segment leading but better than magnite. It has necessary features but misses out on AT and ESP

If I were you, given all the parameters you mentioned, my considerations would be in below order.
1. Pre owned 5th gen V CVT (all of them are still under warranty)
2. New Amaze VX CVT
3. Magnite XV premium turbo CVT (if amaze is skipped for lack of features, might as well go all out with magnite and get top end)
4. 4th gen City V MT

Wild card, pre owned polo GT TSi - nothing is as much fun and well built as this even when we look at couple of segments above. Wish it were still on sale.

[k_ajay]

Originally Posted by dvasudreddy

Hello all, this is my first in this amazing forum. From the forum threads and comments, i came to understanding that how good this group is.

I'm a 32 year old salaried employee with a wife and a kid of 2 year old. I'm planning to buy a car, my first car. Will all the things to consider around and so many options available in the market, I'm just stumped and unable to decide anything. Let me say my requirements first.

1) Budget is 10 lacs with 10% variation on both sides
2) It doesn't matter whether it is sedan, heatchback or compact suv
3) Car should be a safer car, and would be used as family car. Since I have no other way of understanding the safety of any car, I am just going by NCAP ratings. Please let me know if that's a wrong approach. And, definitely no to a car with 2 or lower ratings.
…………………...

Any suggestion would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Vasudeva Reddy

Hi Vasudeva Reddy,

I would also recommend you to try and evaluate Renault KIGER Turbo CVT RXZ sub-compact SUV. It might be near your budget or a bit more, but it is an extremely value for money car, with very good suspension and a smooth CVT gearbox. Do check it out, if it fits your needs in a vehicle.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Secondly, as a family car the emphasis is on safety, at a minimum I would consider side and curtain airbags and ABS + ESP non negotiables, and none of these cars sub 10L have these. .

Interestingly, the S-Presso AGS is now the cheapest car to have dual airbags, ABS and ESP, retailing for 6.5-7.0 lacs. And while touch and feel is no marker for safety, for what its worth, I recently looked at an S-Presso and Wagon R and found the sheet metal on the S-Presso to be a bit more rigid all around, and especially the bonnet. So I don't know if there are any additional structural changes to the 2022 edition.