[AJ56]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Interestingly, the S-Presso AGS is now the cheapest car to have dual airbags, ABS and ESP, retailing for 6.5-7.0 lacs. And while touch and feel is no marker for safety, for what its worth, I recently looked at an S-Presso and Wagon R and found the sheet metal on the S-Presso to be a bit more rigid all around, and especially the bonnet. So I don't know if there are any additional structural changes to the 2022 edition.

Like most Maruti’s it’s a death trap at only 2 out 5 stars for child protection and 3 out of 5 for adult protection by GNCAP standards, let alone the proper NCAP where it would get zero stars as it does not get side and curtain airbags. Side impacts make up a significant percentage of crash fatalities in T bone accidents.

Also at 750kg kerb it’s possibly one of the lightest cars you can buy and if you hit another car it will almost always be at least 1.5-2 times the weight, leading to the S-Presso occupants experiencing much higher crash forces. ESP is nice to see agreed.

Would like to add, touch and feel gives an idea about sheet metal thickness and resulting weight, which is a fundamental marker for safety.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Like most Maruti’s it’s a death trap at only 2 out 5 stars for child protection and 3 out of 5 for adult protection by GNCAP standards, let alone the proper NCAP where it would get zero stars as it does not get side and curtain airbags. Side impacts make up a significant percentage of crash fatalities in T bone accidents.

Also at 750kg kerb it’s possibly one of the lightest cars you can buy and if you hit another car it will almost always be at least 1.5-2 times the weight, leading to the S-Presso occupants experiencing much higher crash forces. ESP is nice to see agreed.

Would like to add, touch and feel gives an idea about sheet metal thickness and resulting weight, which is a fundamental marker for safety.

At the moment, there is much illiteracy about crash safety norms resulting in people going bonkers while even driving 5-star rated cars. The authorities too are being quite inconsistent in framing rules, resulting in manufacturers exploiting the market. I still think though that an S-Presso is safer than a 2-wheeler in the urban environment in the present circumstances. With respect to touch and feel of body, perceptions and facts may not always agree. The Honda City is by no means a "stoutly" built car, never gives that solid impression. In fact, some on this forum itself have commented on how the quality actually deteriorated over the years. Yet it has scored a decent 4-star crash rating. But just to further the interest some more, I would like to see the exposed front grill of the 2022 S-Presso. Because when I saw both the S-Presso and the Wagon-R recently, I felt that the horizontal cross bar on the S-Presso looked a bit thicker from whatever I could peek into the engine bays of the two cars.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

At the moment, there is much illiteracy about crash safety norms resulting in people going bonkers while even driving 5-star rated cars. The authorities too are being quite inconsistent in framing rules, resulting in manufacturers exploiting the market. I still think though that an S-Presso is safer than a 2-wheeler in the urban environment in the present circumstances. With respect to touch and feel of body, perceptions and facts may not always agree. The Honda City is by no means a "stoutly" built car, never gives that solid impression. In fact, some on this forum itself have commented on how the quality actually deteriorated over the years. Yet it has scored a decent 4-star crash rating. But just to further the interest some more, I would like to see the exposed front grill of the 2022 S-Presso. Because when I saw both the S-Presso and the Wagon-R recently, I felt that the horizontal cross bar on the S-Presso looked a bit thicker from whatever I could peek into the engine bays of the two cars.

You’re right, people drive like maniacs and that’s precisely the reason why one should invest in a safer vehicle and not a go kart like S-Presso.

Even a 0 star Nano is safer than a 2 wheeler, that’s not the discussion here. We’re comparing car to car safety, as OP mentions it’s a car that’s being considered not a 2 wheeler.

City has a 4 star rating against its own weight class, it’s some 1100kg which is almost the same as the Jazz (1063kg) in the video above, and that was a 5 star rated car and yet see how it gets crushed by a heavier vehicle. Star ratings only hold against their own weight class, that’s why the heavier the vehicle, the better it fares.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Star ratings only hold against their own weight class, that’s why the heavier the vehicle, the better it fares.

Isn't that against the laws of physics?

Things that stay rigid (cabin) vs things that deform (crumple zones) to absorb the energy, given an optimum design it would favour less weight.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Isn't that against the laws of physics?

Things that stay rigid (cabin) vs things that deform (crumple zones) to absorb the energy, given an optimum design it would favour less weight.

No it's due to the laws of physics, in a crash the kinetic energy of both bodies is shared equally among them, the lighter body owing to it lower mass, experiences a stronger deceleration and results in higher g forces being inflicted on the passengers, leading to more injury.

This is shown in clips like the one above, another one you can check out is S class vs Smart, both are 5 star rated cars with excellent crash scores independently, both made by Daimler but against each other there’s no contest, the S upon impact just slows down but the Smart car gets knocked out like a bowling pin, actually reversing direction.

The reason I highlight this is, you rarely crash into cars of the exact same weight as your own.

Found it here-

https://youtu.be/E_472L2kLp0

Forget S, even a compact C class is enough to make it reverse direction, owing to massive mass differences.

https://youtu.be/VcD4WeuiI3s

[AntPaul]

Originally Posted by AJ56

No it's due to the laws of physics, in a crash the kinetic energy of both bodies is shared equally among them, the lighter body owing to it lower mass, experiences a stronger deceleration and results in higher g forces being inflicted on the passengers, leading to more injury.

I agree with everything said above. Just want to add that what matters is the g forces experienced by people inside the car, and contact with objects(again sudden deceleration). A rigid and heavy car, not engineered for passenger safety(like a an old school SUV) will not have a survival cell and could cause serious injury to passengers.
I am not expert in physics or car structures, but I think the lighter car changing direction after offset crash actually takes energy away from the car's structure, that helps. What it does not help is in keeping the passenger secured and/or enabling airbags to protect them well and to prevent secondary collisions.

[RunGaDa]

Hello Reddy Garu,
You have stated very precise requirements. It seems AMT is the way to go. Since you are not particular about hatch back or sedan or mini SUV you can opt for Honda Amaze. My friend’s experience with Tata Tiago automatic is not good. Power loss when driving in Hyderabad is her main concern.
On second thoughts may I suggest you to consider manual. You will get wider options. I am driving in Hyderabad from 15 years and never found manual to be an issue. It’s a matter of getting used to it for you since it will be your first car.
Personally I feel once the technique is sorted out there is nothing like a manual car.
Good Luck.

[Raulspace999]

Alas, the poor guy has been banned. He won't be able to answer any of our queries.

[Chitta Pradhan]

Originally Posted by dvasudreddy

Hello all, this is my first in this amazing forum. From the forum threads and comments, i came to understanding that how good this group is.

I'm a 32 year old salaried employee with a wife and a kid of 2 year old. I'm planning to buy a car, my first car. Will all the things to consider around and so many options available in the market, I'm just stumped and unable to decide anything. Let me say my requirements first.

1) Budget is 10 lacs with 10% variation on both sides
2) It doesn't matter whether it is sedan, heatchback or compact suv
3) Car should be a safer car, and would be used as family car. Since I have no other way of understanding the safety of any car, I am just going by NCAP ratings. Please let me know if that's a wrong approach. And, definitely no to a car with 2 or lower ratings.
4) My commute is majorly in the city, hence, an automatic. However, once or twice in a quarter i may need to travel on highway ( 450 kms one side).
5) Mileage is not a major concern for my usage, however, a good mileage is definitely an add on.
6) Since I will be spending considerable time in the car, a good interiors and ride comfort would definitely sway my decision (including good infotainment system)
7) I live in Hyderabad, which has so many hills and accordingly many roads with considerable slopes. So, is it required to have hill hold control for an automatic. If so, that would also become part of my requirement.

One other thing, I'm a novice driver, well, pretty much basic.

Cars i have considered, why and why not?

1) Honda Amaze CVT
Why? Honda brand, post sales services, CVT under 10 lacs, smoother and reliable family car (as per reviews), safety ( 4 star ncap rating)
Why not? No hill hold control, poor infotainment system (relatively), poor engine response (as per reviews because of CVT), no cruise control.

2) Altroz DCA
Why? Good looks, good ingress and egress ( i have elderly parents), safety (obviously), good speakers (as per reviews),
Why not? Unreliable post sales services of tata, unproven DCA transmissio in for Tata, no hill hold control

I have only listed those two option as I didn't consider cars with AMT transmission (as they reportedly have not so smooth transmission). If any AMT cars are good, I'm open for them as well. Thought about new Baleno also, but, not so sure about marutis build quality.

Any suggestion would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Vasudeva Reddy

Magnite/Kiger CVT in my opinion is the best option. I have driven Magnite CVT & got impressed. The engine & transmission combo is superb. It has 4 star safety rating too.

Please take a TD.

Thanks

[RijuC]

I am copying from one of my earlier post on similar subject:

Old Brezza in Toyota Urban Cruiser avatar is still available, with a discount. If you are okay with not so spacious rear seat (new Brezza rear seat area is substantially better now), and high end Automatic transmission is not a must, the last few batches of Toyota Urban Cruiser with 4 speed TC AT offer most Value for Money.

Plus points are excellent FE, better built (compared to other Maruti Suzuki cars), bulletproof reliability, sober look, great resale value, good service support of Toyota, most importantly readily available with discount.

Negatives are- modern features are missing, no sunroof, no ESP, only 2 airbags, cramped rear seat, comparatively lower FE than the new brezza, 4 speed Torque Converter AT (may not be a big problem for city driving style), to be discontinued very soon (maintenance, spare, support won't be a problem since it is Toyota).

Otherwise buy a new Brezza ZXi MT or AT as per your need and budget. Don't buy Ertiga/ XL6, these are very unsafe for highway trips.

Don't forget to opt for the maximum extended warranty. My colleague almost finalized Swift AMT for his wife (first car for her). I advised him to consider Toyota UC 4 Speed TC AT. He booked it with OTR 12.00 lakhs for High variant with 3+2 years warranty, mud flap and foot mats for free; on inclusive price for Gurgaon (got roughly 60-65k discount). Car readily available with 11 km on Odo.

[ravigupta000]

AMTs these days have become very smooth barring some implementation in TATA cars and entry level Marutis. Do test drive Grand i10 NIOS or Hyundai Aura to get a feel of good AMT transmission. In your budget, you can consider Nissan Magnite, Renault Kiger and if GNCAP rating is not an issue then check NIOS & Aura also. Hill hold feature won't be really necessary for driving in hills of Hyderabad.

Originally Posted by dvasudreddy

I have only listed those two option as I didn't consider cars with AMT transmission (as they reportedly have not so smooth transmission). If any AMT cars are good, I'm open for them as well. Thought about new Baleno also, but, not so sure about marutis build quality.

Any suggestion would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Vasudeva Reddy

[hanzt]

Originally Posted by dvasudreddy

Hello all, this is my first in this amazing forum. From the forum threads and comments, i came to understanding that how good this group is.

1) Honda Amaze CVT
Why? Honda brand, post sales services, CVT under 10 lacs, smoother and reliable family car (as per reviews), safety ( 4 star ncap rating)
Why not? No hill hold control, poor infotainment system (relatively), poor engine response (as per reviews because of CVT), no cruise control.

2) Altroz DCA
Why? Good looks, good ingress and egress ( i have elderly parents), safety (obviously), good speakers (as per reviews),
Why not? Unreliable post sales services of tata, unproven DCA transmissio in for Tata, no hill hold control

Hi Buddy, I was in the exact same situation a month back and had posted my 1st post as well on a similar dilemma. You can read about it here:

Let me help you on this:
1. plz note that Honda Amaze DOES have hill-hold. I have tested it myself during my test drive. So plz correct that in your pros-cons list.

2. Amaze is a tried and tested vehicle and the latest 2022 variant has all the refinements and a smooth engine-transmission combo.

3. Tata sales service, even during time of purchase/test-drive, has been horendous and i have been to two different showrooms for the same. I shudder to think how the after-sales service will be.

4. wet DCT on the Altroz is untested in harsh indian conditions, and historically (as per the Gurus here) it is not meant for start-stop city traffic, which as per you is going to be your major commute.

5. The only two downsides because of which i dropped the Amaze and went for the Urban Cruiser are -
a) CVT is less responsive than the Torque Converter of the UC, and the latter was enjoyable to drive.
b) The rear seat width (inner door-to-door) of the Amaze is the same as my Swift. So if you plan to use a child-seat for your toddler, then it will be slightly uncomfortable for 2 adults to sit behind (with the child-seat).

6. Plz steer clear of any AMTs, as they are jerky (cause motion sickness), and they are not meant for steep inclines/ghats unless you have hill-hold or use the handbrake (not easy if your wife too plans to drive it), read it here (Hill-driving in an AMT). They dont have 'park' mode either.

Plz test drive all the vehicles and IF the above pt#5 is not an issue for you, then plz go ahead with the Amaze without a doubt. But if you can increase your budget slightly, you can get a much bigger, punchier Urban Cruiser (dealers are offering 60-1Lac discounts on it to liquidate their stock). I believe RijuC also mentioned the same in a post above.

I hope this helps

[VikramCS]

I'll try to summarize your requirement briefly here and provide my 2 cents:

1) Budget ~10L
2) Safety
3) Reliable automatic
4) Good interiors and ride comfort
5) HHC preferred

=====

Suggestions:

1) Honda Jazz CVT (V and above variants come with Sports mode and Paddle shifters, go for this). I have driven new Amaze as well - same engine, gear-box as Jazz, but i felt Jazz is more stable and solid on highways compared to Amaze

2) Honda City CVT 4th Gen (again V and above variants) - if your inclined towards used-cars, and, can do proper background check before finalizing, this is a great choice

3) Kiger/Magnite CVT

Please thoroughly test-drive vehicles, and take an informed decision. Good Luck

Regards

[souvikjana83]

Go with Honda Jazz CVT over Amaze CVT. I know it doesn't sell much due to lack of features the competition provides, but the practicality you will get in the Jazz is phenomenal.

[yatesh.92]

Originally Posted by dvasudreddy

Hello all, this is my first in this amazing forum. From the forum threads and comments, i came to understanding that how good this group is.

I'm a 32 year old salaried employee with a wife and a kid of 2 year old. I'm planning to buy a car, my first car. Will all the things to consider around and so many options available in the market, I'm just stumped and unable to decide anything. Let me say my requirements first.

1) Budget is 10 lacs with 10% variation on both sides
2) It doesn't matter whether it is sedan, heatchback or compact suv
3) Car should be a safer car, and would be used as family car. Since I have no other way of understanding the safety of any car, I am just going by NCAP ratings. Please let me know if that's a wrong approach. And, definitely no to a car with 2 or lower ratings.
4) My commute is majorly in the city, hence, an automatic. However, once or twice in a quarter i may need to travel on highway ( 450 kms one side).
5) Mileage is not a major concern for my usage, however, a good mileage is definitely an add on.
6) Since I will be spending considerable time in the car, a good interiors and ride comfort would definitely sway my decision (including good infotainment system)
7) I live in Hyderabad, which has so many hills and accordingly many roads with considerable slopes. So, is it required to have hill hold control for an automatic. If so, that would also become part of my requirement.

One other thing, I'm a novice driver, well, pretty much basic.

Cars i have considered, why and why not?

1) Honda Amaze CVT
Why? Honda brand, post sales services, CVT under 10 lacs, smoother and reliable family car (as per reviews), safety ( 4 star ncap rating)
Why not? No hill hold control, poor infotainment system (relatively), poor engine response (as per reviews because of CVT), no cruise control.

2) Altroz DCA
Why? Good looks, good ingress and egress ( i have elderly parents), safety (obviously), good speakers (as per reviews),
Why not? Unreliable post sales services of tata, unproven DCA transmissio in for Tata, no hill hold control

I have only listed those two option as I didn't consider cars with AMT transmission (as they reportedly have not so smooth transmission). If any AMT cars are good, I'm open for them as well. Thought about new Baleno also, but, not so sure about marutis build quality.

Any suggestion would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Vasudeva Reddy

Hello Vasudeva,

Since it's your first car I'd suggest you start with a used car with MT if possible so as to polish your skills. A used car would be much lighter on your pocket. For ~3-3.5 lacs you should be able to find a well maintained hatchback and a sedan for ~5 lacs. Fellow bhpians, any leads from your end would also be quite helpful.

Use the car for a good 2-3 years and save up for the new car of your choice. By that time the semiconductor shortage issue should also be sorted and you can get delivery of the car of your choice much faster.