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Old 4th March 2012, 12:57   #76
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Originally Posted by autocrat View Post
One question bothers me - if we leave out the XUV, aria numbers are about average in the segment, about 500 a month? I really wonder if tata can recover the R&D costs, tooling and die costs with these numbers. What would be a decent number for the aria in this segment?
Any idea you have on the R&D cost of developing new car/platform like Aria.
This should give you some stats.
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Old 4th March 2012, 15:06   #77
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

I knew that New fiesta is expensive, but had expected better numbers atleast for the styling and some nice features (referring to the voice control in particular).

Interesting to see what Ford does in this front.

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Originally Posted by riturajsharma19 View Post
Being a Punto owner, it's worrisome to note Fiat's sales figures
The numbers may be very less and worrisome, but have a look at my analysis below.

I found out that Fiat sales have actually improved although the figures show fiat on the top losers month-on-month list.

Owing to the 2012 model release, December was almost a "no-sale" month for fiat. And then in January, the bookings were cleared.
So we should average the sales of Dec'11 and Jan'12 for a fair idea of sales.

By doing that, below is what we come to...

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Fiat sales for Dec'11 and Jan'12 is 1251(366 linea+935 Punto).
This was a small improvement compared to Nov'11 figures of 1036(223+813)
Similarly, Feb'12 sales is also an improvement which is 1705(365+1340).
Compared to January, while Linea has reduced by 1 number, Punto has shown 43% improvement.

Last edited by hemanth.anand : 4th March 2012 at 15:09.
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Old 4th March 2012, 16:32   #78
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post one-liners that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the overall quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further.

Last edited by GTO : 4th March 2012 at 19:43.
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Old 4th March 2012, 18:10   #79
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

Visited Ford dealership with a friend for Figo Test drive. As per the sales executive, Ford has stopped production of New Fiesta (Diesel) till budget, awaiting Govt's excise/tax decision on diesel cars.
Those 77 units could be newly launched ATs.
Probably they will re-launch with corrected pricing post budget.
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Old 4th March 2012, 19:46   #80
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

Sorry guys, no numbers for Force (yet) or for the petrol:diesel split (which manufacturers refuse to provide).

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Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
Ohhh No, you turned to the dark side, using the dark fuel
Dude, my garage has been 3:1 diesel : petrol for the last 5 years. That said, my daily ride, the Civic, is still a high-revving petrol and I continue to insist that petrols beat diesels hands down when it comes to driving pleasure

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Originally Posted by Ashley2 View Post
Any idea you have on the R&D cost of developing new car/platform like Aria.
I'd say it's in the ballpark of 3,000 crore? True or false? Either ways, Tata has also learned a lot about new technology with the Aria. And that will inevitably filter down to its mass market cars.
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Old 4th March 2012, 20:12   #81
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

I guess most of us are familiar with the Scorpios '600 Cr frugal engineering' development budget, which I assume also included the cost for the major upgrade related to the engine (developed from a utilitarian tractor engine). Factoring in inflation and other costs that probably went north since the time of the Scorpio & a not-so-frugal approach - Rs 3000 Cr for the Aria (purely for R&D) seems quite steep IMHO, specially considering that the basic engine was already in production (2.2 Dicor) and only warranted a performance upgarde.
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Old 4th March 2012, 21:10   #82
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Dude, my garage has been 3:1 diesel : petrol for the last 5 years. That said, my daily ride, the Civic, is still a high-revving petrol and I continue to insist that petrols beat diesels hands down when it comes to driving pleasure
I agree that the Sunny will be chauffeur-driven but still no Vento-Rapid chosen by you sends a clear message.
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Old 4th March 2012, 22:48   #83
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Woah Maruti has just had an awesome month. They really understand the Indian market. Hats off to them.

The refresh didn't do A* any good. Haven't even see one Alto (thats India's A*) on London roads in the last month that I am here. Just saw an ad where its advertised for 6k pounds.

Nano seems to be recovering and Aria still making 400 units a months keeps me happy. Have a vested interest that Aria keeps on selling so as Tata A** gets better at maintaining Arias.

I just cant believe Honda City selling more than 6k. I guess it must be pent up demand or have they started discounting. Why would you buy a petrol A to B sedan when you can get a diesel Sunny for the same price. Any snob factor of a Honda City is long gone.

Overall cars are selling nicely. Lets see what the budget does in the next few days for the industry. Diesels just may go more expensive.

Cheers
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Old 5th March 2012, 09:53   #84
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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I agree that the Sunny will be chauffeur-driven but still no Vento-Rapid chosen by you sends a clear message.
Having burnt my fingers with two European cars (Mercedes) & 1 Indian (i.e. old Indigo), reliability is of paramount importance to me. I firmly believe that if a manufacturer cannot build reliable cars, well, it's failure. Plain & simple. Many people get their smile from the "thud"; well, I get my kick from watching the car perform day after day without issue. My 5 year old pre-owned Civic hasn't visited the workshop since March 2011 (it's last scheduled annual service).

My priorities are hassle-free ownership & minimal downtime. Weekdays don't allow a single minute to waste on sorting out broken cars / co-ordinating with mechanics, and weekends are for fun.

As of today, only Japanese & Korean (Hyundai) cars can provide me with the kind of ownership experience I am looking for.

Now, let's avoid going further off-topic. Let me get the Sunny Diesel, use it for ~2k kms and upload a review. We'll continue then

Last edited by GTO : 5th March 2012 at 09:55.
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Old 5th March 2012, 12:12   #85
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Originally Posted by Zed View Post
Rs 3000 Cr for the Aria (purely for R&D) seems quite steep IMHO, specially considering that the basic engine was already in production (2.2 Dicor) and only warranted a performance upgarde.
Hyundai claimed that they spent Rs.900Cr to develop the Eon when it's more or less a re-skinned Santro, plus a downgraded Santro engine. Whereas Mahindra said that it cost only Rs.550Cr to develop the XUV.
The biggest claim was Hyundai saying that they spent 1.1billion USD to develop the Kappa 1.2 engine.
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Old 5th March 2012, 16:46   #86
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

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Hyundai claimed that they spent Rs.900Cr to develop the Eon when it's more or less a re-skinned Santro, plus a downgraded Santro engine. Whereas Mahindra said that it cost only Rs.550Cr to develop the XUV.
The biggest claim was Hyundai saying that they spent 1.1billion USD to develop the Kappa 1.2 engine.
If memory serves me right the development costs associated with the Kappa 1.2 was about $ 500 mil. A lot of money, I agree.

The impression I have, from reviews & reports, is that the Eon is a brand new platform. Pls do correct me if im wrong.
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Old 5th March 2012, 17:17   #87
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

Impressive month for many manufacturers. Specially for Maruti. They are again on top & gained momentum for more in the year. Tata & Hyundai are fighting for 2nd spot. I think Tata needs one new model all together. People are bored with Indica now (That includes Vista as well) Tata should try to give people something new altogether. They need one more hatch in their portfolio. Maruti & Hyundai has more than 2-3. Tata has only one that is Indica.

Why GM is still selling Aveo brand is out of my Imagination. They are hardly able to generate any volume for more than year now.

One great thing to notice is Ambassador sells more than New Ford Fiesta )))))))))))))
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Old 5th March 2012, 17:25   #88
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

Look at Mahindra figures. They are doing serious business. The least of their models being the Renault borrowed Verito at 1.7K. Their homegrown models are doing fabulous. 2.8K units being the least here.
Should someone learn business from the Mahindras? !Phew!
All they have is an old ladder platform for their Utilities and the new one on their XUV. Can it be any better for them?
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Old 5th March 2012, 17:59   #89
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Default Re: February 2012 : Indian Car Sales & Analysis

Ford Figo: Dummies guide to how to sell a car in India.
Ford Fiesta: Dummies guide on how NOT to sell a car in India.

Seriously, 77 Fiestas in February is just horrible.
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Old 5th March 2012, 19:48   #90
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
...or for the petrol:diesel split (which manufacturers refuse to provide).
It simply isn't fair. Manufacturers should and ought to provide petrol:diesel figures. When the government has plans to tax diesel cars, these manufacturers immediately cry hoarse that only x% of the cars use diesel. If these diesel figures can be made available to the government, if and when necessary, what stops these manufacturers from making them available to the public?

Besides, given the huge price difference between petrol and diesel, it is but desirable for manufacturers to inform public of the number of cars being sold using the subsidized fuel.

Hopefully, there will come a time when RTO records of new vehicles sold all over the country would be available on the internet. It would then be possible, though laborious, to compile the petrol:diesel list of cars on a monthly basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Ford Figo: Dummies guide to how to sell a car in India.
Ford Fiesta: Dummies guide on how NOT to sell a car in India.
To add another one:

Maruti: Dummy's Guide on how to sell cars in India.
Fiat/HM-Mitsubishi: Dummy's Guide on how NOT to sell cars in India.

Last edited by misquitas : 5th March 2012 at 19:50.
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