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Old 1st October 2013, 22:15   #31
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

There have been several updates. Jalopnik reports these:

Quote:
The New York Post reports that the SUV driver was hospitalized with stitches for being "slashed," according to police sources. The New York Daily News reports that no riders were harmed, and certainly no riders were killed (as some rumors claim). A police investigation is ongoing and no arrests have been made, the New York Post reports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye Witness Account
I saw these guys yesterday, the bikers, and what a pack of *******s they were. Splitting lanes on the highway at speed (70mph between 2 cars), cutting people off. They had me boxed in so I couldn't get out of an exit only lane so they could get off. Not saying they deserve to be hit, but they had it coming.

I had my blinker on and was handsignalling I needed to get out of the exit only lane. everyone kept passing on the left to cut me off in front of the exit, 4-5 of them flipped me off. I tried rolling slow but they had no inkling of how to ride well. I ride myself, and this was just heinous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Update 2
-The first motorcycle rider hit by the Range Rover got a broken leg (this is the only motorcycle injury the police have information on).
-The Range Rover driver has been released from the hospital with lacerations to his face and other bruises.
-The Range Rover driver was not charged by the police.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Update 3
The New York Post now reports that the driver was 33-year-old Alexian Lien, who did call 911 on the riders at 1:30 yesterday.
New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers-kubigpic.jpg

Quote:
28-year-old Christopher Cruz can be seen in the video (and in the screenshot above) in a white t-shirt slowing down in the middle lane of the West Side Highway, right in front of the now-famous black Range Rover driven by 33-year-old Alexian Lien with his wife and two-year-old in the car. Cruz got hit by the Range Rover for this brake check and was later hospitalized and released for minor injuries, reports the New York Post.

The police have since arrested Cruz and thrown the book at him, effectively marking him responsible for the half-hour chase that ended with Alexian Lien beaten and his car smashed. Police charged Cruz with reckless endangerment, reckless driving, endangering the welfare of a child, and menacing, reports the New York Post.
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Quote:
It's also in this first stop when Lien takes off for the first time, which is when one rider got his legs broken, according to earlier police reports. One Facebook group titled "Justice for Jay Meezee" however, claims that the rider was named Jay Meezee (pictured below in the purple shirt on the green motorcycle), and that his injuries extend far beyond broken legs.

Broken Spine, Broken Ribs, Crushed Lungs, Busted Aorta and the list is endless! Currently in a Coma and Paralyzed from the waist down!!
Alexian Lien, the driver of the Range Rover and his wife:

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Sources:

1. http://jalopnik.com/watch-nyc-bikers...s-o-1427168165

2. http://jalopnik.com/biker-at-start-o...ste-1433776499

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 1st October 2013 at 22:29.
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Old 1st October 2013, 22:32   #32
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Beats me why the bikers did what they did. Range Rover guy was just minding his own business. Bikers looked for an excuse to pick a fight. Which is strange. Could it be because the guy was driving a fancy foreign brand SUV? Heard of some patriotic Americans disapproving of "fancy" foreign brands. Especially the pricier ones like British/Germans. We have seen that in countless movies where hero takes on foreign brands in his American muscle car. Wonder if the bikers had done that to a guy driving a Chevy Suburban or Ford Explorer. But then it was NYC. A cosmopolitan city. Not some sleepy small town where you could be shown middle finger for driving a fancy brand. Further, the bikers themselves were riding all foreign bikes, Japs and Italians. No Harleys here. Really beats me. But yes, USA looked so India-like in this video.

Pic of couple conveys little something. But I did not expect this in cosmopolitan NYC.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 2nd October 2013 at 02:55. Reason: Merging back-to-back posts. Plz use the Edit button if posting within 30 mins of previous post. Thanks.
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Old 1st October 2013, 23:06   #33
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
From what I saw,it appears that the white biker picked up a fight,braked to slow down the Range Rover and then got run over. Immediately afterwards, the bikers started surrounding him like a herd/pack would do (just like the autowallas in bangalore ). Not trying to defend either group here as both are at fault.

The Range rover should have probably pulled over and let the biker pack pass, for the safety of his 5 year old and family. Most of the comments on YouTube are in support of the Range Rover though.

From what I've seen true bikers ride with a lot more discipline, they're not scattered all over the road, like in the video. There is a lead-bike and the convoy simply follows, no lane cutting, abrupt speeding up etc.

EDIT: Also, assuming the SUV driver braked, I don't think he could've avoided hitting the biker. I don't think a 2 tonne+ SUV will stop that fast. Someone correct me if wrong.
Indeed - Agree with you 99% but if the RRdriver had his wits about him - he could've stopped in time. I mean come on - no biker is stupid that he will just brake so hard assuming that someone in a 3 ton truck will brake even harder and not run him over? That is why no one later got in front of him!! Hello - they may have been fighting but the biker wasnt being suicidal even when they were really pissed and were trying to hurt him BAD!

Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
No fault of the poor RR guy - the bikers were looking to pick up a fight. There's no way a 3 ton Range Rover can stop quickly enough when a biker does a brake check. What the RR driver did was in panic and self defense.

This entire gang of bikers deserve to be put in jail for assault.
Please see above. the video does not seem to support as if the biker did panic braking and the car couldn't stop despite his best efforts. Seems to be far from it - the speeds don't look that high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rikhav View Post
Anyone in place of the RR guy would have done the same because it's obvious from the video that the bikers were just waiting for an excuse to pick up a fight
Would you RUN OVER (i.e be ready to kill / maim) folks because of a misunderstanding or some stupid bravado? PS: You dont have the full footage so we DONT know where/how it exactly started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdp95 View Post
I'm with the RR guy. When it comes to the safety of your family, nothing else matters. ...

As far as I know, he did the right thing to protect his family and in the heat of the event, any normal human being would've acted in a similar way.

Speaking of guns, there is also a possibility that one of the bikers might have brandished a concealed one which prompted the RR guy to get the hell outta there.
Would you RUN OVER (i.e be ready to kill / maim) folks because of a misunderstanding or some stupid bravado? PS: You dont have the full footage so we DONT know where/how it exactly started.

Do you have any basis for the concealed weapon hypothesis? Or, are you making this up out of thin air?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
If you read a post somewhere on the forum, I got caught in a similar situation for breaching a Kerala bandh. Driving on was not an option. We adopted a firm but passive stance and would not communicate unless the police were involved.
Indeed - hats off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
It's clear the RR driver panicked. But what he needed to have done was stay calm. Especially since his wife and little child were in the car with him. Lock the doors, don't react to the provocation, call the cops and wait for help. It was NYC for God's sake, am sure they would have reached him pretty quickly.

By doing what he did he risked his own life and that of others, including his family, which is unacceptable. While it's easy to sit and pass judgement sitting in an armchair the fact is that people who panic have no business driving on the street. At one level I feel for the guy trying to get away from a bad situation where his family could have been potentially harmed, but strictly from a commonsense perspective, he should have stayed put.
Indeed - hats off to you. Completely agree with every word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARCUS_520i View Post
THAT was definitely not gonna help, after what we saw. Whether he ran over the bike or not, the bikers would totally have resorted to the helmet v/s glass strategy

IMHO, this is a very good demonstration of "How to put your big bad SUV to good use". No, seriously.

I'm in full support of the RR fellow here. As all of us can see in the beginning of the video, how the guy on the white bike creates a scene, escalating to the RR having to use it's might and run over one of the bikes.

If this were to happen to me, here in India, I'd do the same and zoom to the nearest police chowky. Of course, I'd also be making some phone calls on the way there, alerting my close ones as to what has happened.

The 'gang' of bikers in the video, exhibit nothing less than typical hooliganism. Many of them aren't even wearing helmets, leave alone necessary riding gear.

Another point to notice is how the person on the dirt bike, filming this video has edited it exactly at the point where it gets violent. Why does he not want to show us how much of testosterone is running through his friends' bodies who obviously must have beaten the RR driver black and blue, if not fractured a few ribs!

I just hope that the scene was interrupted by the cops and the RR guy got out of it safe.
a. Their gear/lack thereof doesnt make them hooligans. You need to pause to consider the video started AFTER the problem was developing, so u dont know how they had behaved before the incident.
b. Would you RUN OVER (i.e be ready to kill / maim) folks because of a misunderstanding or some stupid bravado? Since you are so confident on using your car as an offensive weapon to get out of a sticky situation - have mind sharing if ever done it ?

Maybe there's a basic ingrained respect for human life but I am simply disgusted at folks suggesting that its the right thing to run over folks, compounding what was a minor issue into full blown manslaughter and homicide.

By this logic, in a 3rd world country like India, where the police helpline itself may sometimes not work, the police may take hours to come - it is perfectly fine for some folks to quickly take the lives of as many people as they deem necessary "to defend one's family" from any possible threat. And then its a very short slippery slope away to total anarchy and jungle raj. If this is what some BHPians think - god save us from the rest of the folks on the road.

Clearly cool heads like ajmat displayed in Feb (Road Rage Victim & Theater Personality AN Ramesh Dies), are in terrible short supply. Or Suhaas, should've run over the extorting roadrage chap (Victim of Road Rage + Extortion!). Or this other incident (Delhi road rage).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdp95 View Post
A couple of black eyes and bruises on the face and chest that needed stitches. He was discharged from the Columbia University Medical Center later.
What about the bikers?

Damn - just read about https://www.facebook.com/pages/Justi...11664345601619 via Gannu. May Alexian Lien's karma catch up with him and he suffers for the injuries he has inflicted on others.

Anyways, lest this thread too degenerate into a pointless free-for-alllike the Delhi stunter shooting, I will now defer to XKCD: http://xkcd.com/386/ - Personally I won't run over someone in such a situation. NEVER. What I take away from the thread is that there'll be others who'd react unpredictably and be ready to resort to fatal violence at the slightest imagined threat to their families. The best route is to avoid such fracas by being ultra defensive from the start and tolerate occasional abuses/extortion. Reminds me of the standup comic who once likened our vehicles to assault weapons and joked about how people turn into completely aggressive and dangerous folks behind the wheel.

Last edited by phamilyman : 1st October 2013 at 23:10.
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Old 1st October 2013, 23:29   #34
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Early on in the fray, as Lien initially sped off to try to escape the menacing pack, he ran over 26-year-old biker Jeremiah Mieses of Lawrence, Mass., sources said.

Law-enforcement sources told The Post that Mieses' spine was crushed and that he may now be a paraplegic.

"He was intubated and placed on a respirator last night in preparation or surgery. He couldn't talk," one source said.*

*:http://nypost.com/2013/10/01/cops-bust-bike-thug/
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Old 1st October 2013, 23:51   #35
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To all those questioning the RRs driver speeding off after the initial slowdown and taunt by the biker. Please understand that it was a Panick situation, It is completely normal for a person not respond as they normally would or what we would consider as sane. This is further exaggerated by the fact a loved one is involved.

The others involved in the run down have paid for their association with the first Imbecile, Harsh but true.

Last edited by Maky : 1st October 2013 at 23:53.
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Old 1st October 2013, 23:53   #36
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Arrow Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Indeed - Agree with you 99% but if the RRdriver had his wits about him - he could've stopped in time. I mean come on - no biker is stupid that he will just brake so hard assuming that someone in a 3 ton truck will brake even harder and not run him over? That is why no one later got in front of him!! Hello - they may have been fighting but the biker wasnt being suicidal even when they were really pissed and were trying to hurt him BAD!

Please see above. the video does not seem to support as if the biker did panic braking and the car couldn't stop despite his best efforts. Seems to be far from it - the speeds don't look that high.


a. Their gear/lack thereof doesnt make them hooligans. You need to pause to consider the video started AFTER the problem was developing, so u dont know how they had behaved before the incident.

Maybe there's a basic ingrained respect for human life but I am simply disgusted at folks suggesting that its the right thing to run over folks, compounding what was a minor issue into full blown manslaughter and homicide.

By this logic, in a 3rd world country like India, where the police helpline itself may sometimes not work, the police may take hours to come - it is perfectly fine for some folks to quickly take the lives of as many people as they deem necessary "to defend one's family" from any possible threat. And then its a very short slippery slope away to total anarchy and jungle raj. If this is what some BHPians think - god save us from the rest of the folks on the road.
What speeds do you think they were doing?

Obviously, the biker was a freaking idiot to slow down lin front of a speeding SUV. Usually, they do that to block traffic so they can pull wheelies. It happens often and is not an uncommon thing - drag racers pull similar stunts.

The bikers lack of gear doesn't make them hooligans, it just makes them stupid. What makes them hooligans is the way they ride in packs with complete disregard for traffic rules & safety of others on the road.

Being born in a first world country doesn't make anybody a first class citizen. The elder Parsis in Bombay are extremely safe drivers even though they live in a third world country.

Unlike Hollywood movies, the police don't come here in force within a couple of minutes of a call. In many cases they can't because of traffic.

You're absolutely right when you say that had the Range Rover driver backed down when first confronted none of this would have happened - but it did. Did they bikers deserve what happened to them? I think so, yes.

As far as calling out kdp95 on the guns issue, they might have been carrying guns in which case it would have been illegal, or they might not have.
What basis do you have on making the argument that they weren't?
You're probably right in this case as there weren't any reports of shots being fired.

As far as talk of keeping cool heads, why didn't the bikers keep a cool head when their bikes were run over and call the cops instead of going after a guy in a SUV and cutting him up?
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Old 1st October 2013, 23:55   #37
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

We dont really know what was going on between the bikers and RR prior to the start of the video. It is possible that the RR guy got boxed in by the bikers and he missed his exit and honked at them. It is possible that the RR guy was angry with the bikers for occupying all lanes and preventing him from passing. Maybe he honked at them and they got mad. Maybe they got upset that someone who does not look american dared to honk or even give them a glare. We dont know! But under any of these circumstances, coming to a stop was not really a safe option. In fact, he did come to a stop first time around and got his tire slashed. I doubt the bikers at that point were being polite!! Maybe the knife that slashed the tires was waved at him and that is the point where he decided to take off.

I dont think anyone here has enough information to sit in judgement and say that he should have just stopped after hitting the biker. By the way, he did not actually "hit" the biker. It was a minor brush post which he did stop.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 00:26   #38
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

Totally agree with you Amit and aah78

If someone is pointing fingers at the RR guy, he is wrong because same applies to the bikers.

No one would just wait to get killed or hit by a group of 50 to 60 hooligans unless and until he is Tony stark

When they are riding in such a big group it's their first and foremost responsibility to drive safely and not to block other cars. By not doing so it makes them completely at fault. They forced a person to react the way he did.

Of course this is my personal opinion
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Old 2nd October 2013, 00:45   #39
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

By most accounts the RR driver stopped after he hit the moron who was brake checking him. After he stopped, the other bikers around him tried to break his windows and slashed his tires. He panicked and started driving away. In my opinion, there was nothing wrong with his decision making.

Continuing on the highway would not have been an option with slashed tires. Not very safe for him or for the others on the interstate.

This also makes me glad I got a dashcam. The RR driver would have been in trouble if there wasn't video footage of the incident.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 04:19   #40
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

NY times has added interviews from other bikers who claim the RR was the cause for the incident to start with.

All this just earns the biker community a bad name and puts them to shame.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 08:53   #41
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

The bikers would obviously defend their gang. From the video, it does look like the bikers got into an altercation with the driver because at the start of the video, the Range Rover appears to be peacefully driving. The situation might have gotten worse and the driver was tensed, panicked, lost his cool and drove ahead to protect his wife and 2 year old daughter. Now a member of the gang is dearly paying for all this trouble by fighting for his life. They clearly messed with the wrong guy at the wrong place.

The driver could have called the cops instead. Hard to believe this happened in NYC of all places! It is still unclear what started all this.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 10:03   #42
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

There is a reason why the SUV driver isn't charged. That video is proof enough to acquit him of charges.

The response by either wasn't civil, but ganging up against someone carrying his family with others being 50-60 in numbers wasn't helping either.

Bikers in forums on US say, had they been on that SUV, either they would have shot few or run over 'em. I really do not know as to how things function (over there) so I really cannot comment.

And they really smashed his window & him.

Taxi & auto wallas are the same everywhere, you stop one & you will be outnumbered, gagged, beaten & bruised before you can catch your breath.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 12:05   #43
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

Hi Friends,

another link from the Facebook forum which is initiated for the injured biker.

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Old 2nd October 2013, 12:15   #44
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Default Re: New York: Road Rage / Accident between Range Rover & Bikers

Came across more footage videos of the RR - Bikers incident. Appears like the biker who captured videos has removed from his YouTube account.

If you look at the videos, its evident that these bikers were looking a fight. Its really bad on the way these bikers were riding. They are just all over the places.

We crib about bikers on Indian streets, these are none the less.
All videos:



RR incident



Biker arrested for starting NYC motorcycle melee

Biker in coma after NYC motorcycle road rage incident

More info can be found on BikerPost FB page
https://www.facebook.com/BikersPost


Mods: Unable to remove Thumbnails of the link. Can you possibly remove it?

Last edited by 500ContyCruiser : 2nd October 2013 at 12:17.
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Old 2nd October 2013, 12:18   #45
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Update : The biker who braked in front of the SUV was arrested and the biker who was run over by the SUV may not walk again, as the doctors were unsure themselves. The driver of the RR was not charged for the incident.

I feel what the police did is right.Anybody has the right defend their and their family's lives.

Link for the same.
Autoblog
Motorcyclist injured, another arrested in aftermath of NYC Land Rover chase [w/video]
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/01/m...usaolp00000599

Last edited by Koenigsegg220 : 2nd October 2013 at 12:20.
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