[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by pjbiju

The child was only 2 years old. Do you think the child was old enough to understand that these people were only attacking the car and will do him/her no harm? What about the mental trauma/shock that the child has suffered. It may remain with this child for life. Isn't that damage enough?

As a parent of a two year old, I agree that this is not a good scenario at all.

That is exactly why my personal philosophy was stated earlier on Page 3. I'll just quote myself.

Personally I won't run over someone in such a situation. NEVER. What I take away from the thread is that there'll be others who'd react unpredictably and be ready to resort to fatal violence at the slightest imagined threat to their families. The best route is to avoid such fracas by being ultra defensive from the start and tolerate occasional abuses/ extortion. Reminds me of the standup comic who once likened our vehicles to assault weapons and joked about how people turn into completely aggressive and dangerous folks behind the wheel.

[asit.kulkarni93]

Why is everyone fighting on this thread?
Any amount of discussion over here wouldn't lead to any decision. We all know it was the situation then, which made the RR driver run over those bikes. Apart from the pune st bus incident last year, I haven't heard of anyone deliberately running over someone else. I mean those guys on the bikes are not even worth being labelled as bikers. Heck I everyday wear my basic gear on a 150cc bike and hardly any of them in the video have any riding gear on apart from a helmet. They have those big bikes so with more power comes more responsibility. It is very well Visible as to how responsible they were even prior to the incident.The RR driver should have had followed up with 911 instead of playing dhoom dhoom with those bikes. He is at mistake too, but he had a child in his car, which eventually helps him cover his deeds Infront of the law. The reality ofcourse differs. So everyone stop fighting. This will lead to nothing.
If this was in India we could have helped the victim in someway. Here I don't know
How are we/can help the victim. Let the law
Decide!

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Chetan,

None of that constitutes attacking a two year old, which is indeed a heinous act if it did happen. This thread is charged up as it is - it doesn't need more unsubstantiated angles.

As for the last underlined part, that gets into the "how could it have been avoided" territory, which is yet another slippery slope of "in a law abiding country, why should Lien back off?" (as duly expressed by bblost among others). Again, better not to go there.

Not the kind of response I'd expect from a responsible team-BHPian. They attacked a vehicle with a child inside, beating up its father and tried to assault its mother (refer the video in SDP's post immediately after my post you've quoted, the witness confirms around 1:45 that the bikers tried dragging the lady out of the SUV).

What constitutes attacking a 2-yr-old child in your book? Actually PHYSICALLY injuring her?

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

Not the kind of response I'd expect from a responsible team-BHPian. They attacked a vehicle with a child inside, beating up its father and tried to assault its mother (refer the video in SDP's post immediately after my post you've quoted, the witness confirms around 1:45 that the bikers tried dragging the lady out of the SUV).

What constitutes attacking a 2-yr-old child in your book? Actually PHYSICALLY injuring her?

Your needless personal comments aside - thanks for now explaining what you really meant, when you specifically said "attacking a 2-year old". I was only responding to that exact statement and had exactly the same impression when i read your post.

Since you really meant the two year old would be traumatized from this attack (which I agree happened), it would be helpful to use more accurate language in such charged up threads that leaves no scope for interpretation.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Your needless personal comments aside - thanks for now explaining what you really meant, when you specifically said "attacking a 2-year old". I was only responding to that exact statement and had exactly the same impression when i read your post.

Since you really meant the two year old would be traumatized from this attack (which I agree happened), it would be helpful to use more accurate language in such charged up threads that leaves no scope for interpretation.

I did think that was pretty obvious, but I agree it's my fault to assume it'd be obvious to everyone. I've repeatedly tried to be as clear on this thread as possible, and totally agree with you that's the best approach, because it's pretty obvious that a few posters on this thread are tending towards misunderstanding or intentionally twisting the slightest ambiguity (not aimed at your personally, just so we are clear).

Also, I'm sure you've seen the picture in SDPs post#188 on this thread. The biker is trying to open the right rear door of the SUV. I'm not jumping to any conclusions, but I somehow don't think any good intentions were involved there.

Everything else aside, I've continuously maintained that the complete set of facts has still not been established (and the NYPD have refused to rule out that they DEFINITELY won't charge the SUV driver), and even appreciated one of your posts highlighting the fact that charges against one of the bikers was withdrawn after further investigation, which was the right thing to do in the circumstances.

All the evidence so far points to the bikers being at fault for causing the situation being discussed. If that changes, the authorities would be right to charge & prosecute whoever is deemed to be at fault.


Edit: for spelling and grammar.

[SDP]

Uploading 3 images which shows that front-right, rear-right and rear-left tyres were damaged/flattened :

Front-Right tyre missing.


Rear-Right tyre punctured.


Rear-Left tyre punctured.


Right side tyres I can understand. Can't think of a logical reason why the left tyre is flat. I am tending towards the tyres-slashed-with-knife claim.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by E63

That is the weirdest thing I've heard all my life.

So now, whem I'm on a bike, I will not overtake buses and trucks, because I've got suicide on my mind.

Keep it down Mister. Don't get too excited. Do not start launching personal attacks and using superlatives. You are free to differ from my views but refrain from getting too much carried away,. Where did I say you should not overtake a bus/truck? Read again. Or do you see some invisible words ingrained in there? I said it is suicidal ( I will say again ) to brake so hard just in front of the bumper of a big vehicle. What is so wierd about it? Why don't you do pull this stunt in front of a Safari or something? May be you will get your answer.

[AbhishekB86]

Originally Posted by E63

Like I said, if I were in USA, I would lock the RR from inside, call 911, and wait.

I would not, run over a biker, no matter what the scenario.
And I dont get how he felt threatened.
Because clearly, the glass was shattered after the moron forgot to brake and rear-ended the biker, and the proceeded to run over another.

They did not. And they should have.
I said the SUV guy called 911, but did not have the patience to actually wait for the response.

And as the bikers parked, isnt it obvious that they were all standing there when the guy decided that he has the bigger vehicle, so he has a right to way.


And to all those who say the bikers slashed the tyres, give me evidence of them doing so.
I dont see it in the video, and I dont think a kitchen knife can achieve that.
Maybe the tyre got burst going over the bike's fairing.

That is the weirdest thing I've heard all my life.

So now, whem I'm on a bike, I will not overtake buses and trucks, because I've got suicide on my mind.

What sort of a parallel universe do you live in where SUV's at a certain speed can come to a complete halt so quick?

You're saying he rear ended the biker? So according to you Cruz had no role in it all? Cruz & you would like us and the police to believe changing lanes to look for his friends is acceptable? Like come on just a harmless biker looking for his mates so they can follow rules together and enjoy the great ride on the highway.

I mean why was the RR in that lane? When he saw Cruz changing lanes perhaps he should have pressed the take off button and be airborne like a helicopter??

You call Lien a moron because he should have known via that the innocent rider ahead will look for his friends and might brake in the middle of the highway by changing lanes and Lien should have seen it coming?

Secondly did you have a word with the bikers? When some of them were going towards his car they were just going to reason and not to attack him? How do you know for sure? Have you spoken to any one of them personally?

Or can we safely say that good people like Chance & Mieses who have criminal records half the size of a newspaper are people who believe in reason and peace?

Yes Lien made a mistake. Perhaps he should have accelerated slowly but asking him to wait there is more suicidal than you pulling off a stunt in front of any bus truck or whatever inspires you.

This is a country where 911 responds quickly but is also the country where mad men enter schools/defense buildings/movie theaters and shoot people randomly without provocation.

I am assuming you have never been caught in a tight situation before and hence do not understand. So if men are attacking his car he should stay calm and call 911 and till the police units respond wait patiently. Who cares about the wife and kid..911 will take care of them.

Self defense..sorry what's that? Emergency Doctrine??

Having a point of view which differs from others is one thing. phamilyman has shown immense maturity in doing that but taking it personally and skewing facts and making statements out of nowhere is wrong.

You want evidence of things ..take your post..search for youtube videos or abcnews/cnn/new york times and check out the police statements.

[aah78]

Note from Support: Thread closed.

[GTO]

Thanks to Sheel for sharing this.

The biker pleads guilty: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.2095957

[Technocrat]

The undercover detective involved in this incident gets 2 years sentence

NYPD DETECTIVE GETS 2 YEARS IN WEST SIDE HIGHWAY BIKER ASSAULT CASE