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Old 4th March 2009, 14:38   #1
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Default 'Grooving' my UNO 1.0 FIRE

Hi All,

I have been using a FIAT UNO 45 1.0 FIRE for quite some time around. With almost no resale value and with 2 years of MBA coming up, I don't plan to invest in another vehicle as of now.
So, on a routine check up yesterday, I had a talk with the owner of the garage I go to.

My basic problem is of driveablilty. The 1.0 FIRE is a good enough for driving without the A/C, but with the A/C on, the drivelabilty suffers a lot. On talking (read interrogating) to the owner about this and how to overcome it, I was directed to another gentleman in Mysore, Mr.Somender Singh.

Mr. Singh seems to have patented 'groove' for the cylinder head, which greatly increases the torque of an engine. On a google search, I found out that the claims seem to be true.

I'll be paying him a visit pretty soon to discuss the potential of his patent to the 1.0 engine. He claims that it can be done easily and will give me the necessary driveability and low end torque required.

Anybody has any idea about this 'groove' thingy and how genuine is it? I searched for 'singh grooves' and got a lot of hits related to 'grooves' and performance tuning.

Any help and ideas would be greatly welcome...
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Old 4th March 2009, 14:46   #2
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hi prateek im from mysore too, spent a better part of my entire college life with somendar singh in his garage. iv known him from my uncles rd350 days. you can check out his website out to get a better idea about him somender-singh.com. he has his workshop near chamundi vihar stadium. his design basically creates turbulence in the cylinder/combustion chamber prior to combustion. talk to him.
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Old 4th March 2009, 15:28   #3
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Hi Prateekswarup,

Finetuning from Bombay has grooved his Esteem and so have some other members on this forum too. Please see the link below

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1038057 (My Grooved Esteem FE is 14.5 Kmpl)

I wanted to do it myself on my Santro, but always got terrified of messing with it, since its doing just great so far. But, if you do decide to take the plunge on your UNO, please do post your experiences and your mileage figures pre and post grooving.
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Old 4th March 2009, 15:50   #4
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hey dude prateek,

Infact i had a chat with Somendar Singh sometime in February about grooving my 1.0 ltr Uno. He said that this can be done, but he has stopped grooving carbueretted engines as its hard to find spares for them.

I am copying the exact reply he typed out to me below

"
We have done many Uno's 999cc Fire Engines in the past ! The torque goes up and the car pulls away with ease ~ MPG or KMPL is in the way you use this extra torque !
The carb on the Uno is finicky ! We have more control on the later 1198 cc MPFI Fire Engines ! Coming on the Palio !

Today i only take up New cars for Grooving ! As older cars have so many critical parts eaten away ~ The will keep running till some thing gives up !

When you strip it half way for mods ~ You need to scrape a lot of muck ~ And replace many small components to make sure ~ Which are not available ~ even if they are ~ OE parts don't come cheap ! Today the manufacturers want to phase out 5 to 6 year cars with In-built ~ " Weak link " ~ To name a few Spring a leak in the cooling system and see the engine Lock up ! Or the fan doesent come on in traffic ~ Whistles start to blow before every thing comes to a stand still !

So why would the OEM's like to see the grooves ~ Which will keep the engine healthy forever !?
That is the catch 22 ! Today the whole lot of OEM's are in the gutter ! Serves them right ! Not to forget every ones Else's investments that went into buying their passion is also buried ! Net result ~ Non performing assets on either side of the Foot path !
Think about it ???
sing !!

" - Somendar Singh
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Old 4th March 2009, 15:54   #5
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I follwed this mail up with my following query -

"
My engine comes with a Weber TL32F carb. please explain to me the pros and cons of getting this head grooved. i am keen on improving the torque, will be very interested. Again this is subject to the cost of the entire project. i request you to please let me know a rough estimate as well.
" - Sharan

To this email, the replied with the following msg

"Parts on the Webber are rare ! The electric connection is the weak link ! i have stopped doing carb cars ~ You will have to attempt it your self i guess!
It is time consuming ~ Car has no re-sale after all the investment ?
The bore & piston tolerance also plays a very important aspect after grooving !
All the best !
sing !!!
" - Somendar Singh

So if you do manage to convince him, let me know as i too am very keen on getting this done.

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Old 4th March 2009, 15:59   #6
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That means, he is open to doing this on a Palio. I wonder if someone with a Palio has got it done yet and what have been their experiences post the mod.
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Old 4th March 2009, 23:15   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prateekswarup View Post
Mr. Singh seems to have patented 'groove' for the cylinder head, which greatly increases the torque of an engine. On a google search, I found out that the claims seem to be true.
I have sampled some of Singh's work, and while its a good improvement, I wouldn't call it a "great" increase in torque.

You might consider an engine swap which isn't particularly hard on the Uno, one because its carburetted, two because the engine bay is quite spacious.

A good mechanic worth his salt should be able to hook you up. You might wanna talk to Mr. Ravi Kiran of JB motors, his garage is on the road between bamboo bazar and idgah maidan. Very knowledgable and atypical mechanic, I spent most of my final year in NIE at his garage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by howler View Post
hi prateek im from mysore too, spent a better part of my entire college life with somendar singh in his garage. iv known him from my uncles rd350 days. you can check out his website out to get a better idea about him somender-singh.com. he has his workshop near chamundi vihar stadium. his design basically creates turbulence in the cylinder/combustion chamber prior to combustion. talk to him.
gana is that you man?

Last edited by ananthkamath : 4th March 2009 at 23:16.
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Old 5th March 2009, 12:22   #8
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I pressume Mr. Ravi Kiran is also based outta Mysore (there is a Bamboo bazaar in bangalore as well).

Has anyone tried polishing their cylinder heads, and installing high lift cams on an Uno?
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Old 5th March 2009, 12:46   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
I have sampled some of Singh's work, and while its a good improvement, I wouldn't call it a "great" increase in torque.

You might consider an engine swap which isn't particularly hard on the Uno, one because its carburetted, two because the engine bay is quite spacious.

A good mechanic worth his salt should be able to hook you up. You might wanna talk to Mr. Ravi Kiran of JB motors, his garage is on the road between bamboo bazar and idgah maidan. Very knowledgable and atypical mechanic, I spent most of my final year in NIE at his garage.



gana is that you man?
AZZ KIKR! yup its me, saw your rides knew it had to be you soory
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Old 5th March 2009, 21:01   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharanramesh View Post
I pressume Mr. Ravi Kiran is also based outta Mysore
thats correct, he's in mysore.
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Old 6th March 2009, 09:17   #11
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Hey Guys,

@sharanramesh:

I have talked to him through the garage owner I go to. The owner, Mr. Prabhakar is going to do all the work on the Uno aprat from the grooves that Mr.Singh will undertake. Mr. Prabhakar has been servicing my Uno quite regularly and is able to procure parts for me from Mumbai. Also, since the Uno is quite prevelant in Assam, I'm also able to get spares from there too thanks to my Dad being posted there.
So, Mr.Prabhakar is ready to undetake the project along with Mr.Singh. I still have to go for a visit to meet Mr.Singh, probably will do it sometime next week with the car.

An initial estimate of around 12k-17k was put forward. What say?

@ananthkamath:
I thought of a possibility of an engine swap, but even a 1.2 FIRE engine that does duty on the MPFI Uno or the Palio is going to cost around 70k-80k. Too much of an investment on a car that I shall be using for maximum of another 2-3 years. Also, shifting from a Weber carb to MPFI will require a lot more work too.
If U can find a cheaper 1.2, I might think about it.
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Old 11th March 2009, 14:31   #12
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do not shift to an mpfi unit, a carb unit works really well.

if it works out, let me know. i will also want to do the same thing.

if ur gonna meet him this week let me know i would not mind driving up to mysore.
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Old 12th March 2009, 06:26   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prateekswarup View Post

An initial estimate of around 12k-17k was put forward. What say?

@ananthkamath:
I thought of a possibility of an engine swap, but even a 1.2 FIRE engine that does duty on the MPFI Uno or the Palio is going to cost around 70k-80k. Too much of an investment on a car that I shall be using for maximum of another 2-3 years. Also, shifting from a Weber carb to MPFI will require a lot more work too.
If U can find a cheaper 1.2, I might think about it.
Who said it has to be a 1.2 from the palio? It could be anything - even a simple esteem engine transplant should be able to get you what you want - for about 20k. All it needs is a trans-adapter plate and believe you me, Kiran has done $hitloads of those.
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Old 12th March 2009, 09:30   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ananthkamath View Post
Who said it has to be a 1.2 from the palio? It could be anything - even a simple esteem engine transplant should be able to get you what you want - for about 20k. All it needs is a trans-adapter plate and believe you me, Kiran has done $hitloads of those.
@ananthkamath: i hadn't thought of those options. Let me have a talk with Somender Singh and then get back. If I'm not convinved with him, I'll look for Mr.Kiran's options.

@sharanramesh: I plan to go this Sunday to meet Somender Singh. I'm going to call him up today and ask for a convinient time for Sunday. PM me if you are interested.
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Old 12th March 2009, 17:51   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharanramesh View Post
hey dude prateek,

Infact i had a chat with Somendar Singh sometime in February about grooving my 1.0 ltr Uno. He said that this can be done, but he has stopped grooving carbueretted engines as its hard to find spares for them.

I am copying the exact reply he typed out to me below

"
We have done many Uno's 999cc Fire Engines in the past ! The torque goes up and the car pulls away with ease ~ MPG or KMPL is in the way you use this extra torque !
The carb on the Uno is finicky ! We have more control on the later 1198 cc MPFI Fire Engines ! Coming on the Palio !

Today i only take up New cars for Grooving ! As older cars have so many critical parts eaten away ~ The will keep running till some thing gives up !

When you strip it half way for mods ~ You need to scrape a lot of muck ~ And replace many small components to make sure ~ Which are not available ~ even if they are ~ OE parts don't come cheap ! Today the manufacturers want to phase out 5 to 6 year cars with In-built ~ " Weak link " ~ To name a few Spring a leak in the cooling system and see the engine Lock up ! Or the fan doesent come on in traffic ~ Whistles start to blow before every thing comes to a stand still !

So why would the OEM's like to see the grooves ~ Which will keep the engine healthy forever !?
That is the catch 22 ! Today the whole lot of OEM's are in the gutter ! Serves them right ! Not to forget every ones Else's investments that went into buying their passion is also buried ! Net result ~ Non performing assets on either side of the Foot path !
Think about it ???
sing !!

" - Somendar Singh
I'm trying to analyse what mr.sing is saying here. First of all is your carb working properly and do you have good compression? Is your electric fan working?
If so, then I dont think grooving with cause any ill effects or cause you to replace parts.
You may need to replace head gasket and intake-man gasket if they have to be scraped out.
Also, its the valve to piston clearance you need to worry about because he increases comp, rather than piston to bore.

Has anybody put a Mikuni from a maruti on a Uno?
If you can find a good price for a Mikuni from anyone of the different Marutis in the 1.0 - 1.1 liter disp, its might be worthwhile to adapt it for the Uno.
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