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Old 30th August 2008, 08:06   #181
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Exclamation Grooving On Hyundai Sonata V6!

Hi Guys!

I had gone to Mysore to get the grooving done from Somender Singh himself! In case you did'nt know, he is the patent holder for grooving of cylinder heads.

Some Pics!
The last pic is of the man himself!
Attached Thumbnails
My Grooved Esteem FE is 14.5 Kmpl-imgp3009.jpg  

My Grooved Esteem FE is 14.5 Kmpl-imgp3024.jpg  

My Grooved Esteem FE is 14.5 Kmpl-imgp3029.jpg  

My Grooved Esteem FE is 14.5 Kmpl-imgp3022.jpg  


Last edited by 1self : 30th August 2008 at 08:07.
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Old 30th August 2008, 10:43   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Hi rider60,

Formula is

Stroke size (inches) x 1 1
[ ---------- - ------------ ]
( static CR -1 ) ( Desired CR -1 )

Your bore & stroke size is 57.3mm x 57.8mm and CR is 9.5 : 1 and desired CR is 10.5 :1 then

= 2.3 x 1 1
[ ----------- - ----------- ]
( 9.5 -1 ) ( 10.5 -1 )

= 2.3 x 1 1
[ --------- - -------- ]
8.5 9.5

= 2.3 X [ 0.1176 - 0.1052 ]

= 2.3 x 0.0124

= 0.02852 inches


= 0.724408 mm

You need to remove 0.7244 mm precisely from your head.

Will post photo later.



=


mate the CR of the unicorn is mentioned differently in different sites, but i just checked the manual its 9.1:1.

so i am changing the calculation,

= 2.28 x 1 1
[ ----------- - ----------- ]
( 9.1 -1 ) ( 10.1 -1 )



25.08
= [-------------------------]
(9.1-1)(10.1-1)


25.08
= [--------------------------]
73.71

= 0.34025


so what exactly should i do i think i went wrong with my calculation some where, please sort that out with the corrected values.

Last edited by rider60 : 30th August 2008 at 10:45.
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Old 30th August 2008, 11:14   #183
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I think formula is not clearly seen with post.Anyway I will PM u.WIth fiero & pulsar I removed just 0.5 mm.Bcz there is possibility of valves touching piston top if too much metal removed so I went for 0.5mm.But that was more then sufficient.

photos taken from mobile so no high resolution image.
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Old 30th August 2008, 11:16   #184
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dude post bigger pics they are too small for the grooves to be seen.
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Old 1st September 2008, 15:12   #185
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Dear Finetuning,

I have esteem 99 model, the groove calculation may be suitable for my car as you did for your car. if yes can you pl. give me your IC engine groove location depth, width & length.

thanks,
fanteen
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Old 3rd September 2008, 00:21   #186
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Hi,

Grooves will be between both valves pointing towards spark plug area.Its pointed on both sides.Extend it bit further down.It can be 2 to 3mm wide and 2mm deep.In your case its an MPFI esteem so I think you will have 2 quench pad per cylinder hence 2 grooves on each side as shown in earlier post by 1self.

You can refer my other thread of grooving maruti 1000 for more illustration.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ti-1000-a.html (Grooved Maruti 1000)
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Old 3rd September 2008, 19:41   #187
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Have you got anything to tell about the experience of nsf ? I am asking this because i am planning to got to mysore soon. Just wanted to know whether the effort will be paid or not ? Want to get first hand experience of those did it from Mr. Singh.
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Old 3rd September 2008, 22:39   #188
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Hi,

What can I say.My personal experience grooving marutis is very good including two wheelers.
I personaly think visit is a worth.Mr.Singh is having tremendous knowledge of IC engines in & out.
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Old 3rd November 2008, 09:36   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Hi rider60,

With grooves we have tremendous turbulance where O2 atoms are placed/mixed/strirred so well covering most of fuel molecues to start a very healthy,rapid flame front with high velocity.This is improvement in combustion resulting in complete burning of fuel & hence less emission,more power & so on.....
I can recall that this technology was used in LML bikes , anyone else remember?
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Old 3rd November 2008, 14:16   #190
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This sounds interesting. I have the following questions in this regards:

1). How much would it cost for a Swift Petrol?
2). Approximately how mych time it will take for the Grooving?
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Old 30th September 2009, 17:11   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finetuning View Post
Hi rider60,

Formula is

Stroke size (inches) x 1 1
[ ---------- - ------------ ]
( static CR -1 ) ( Desired CR -1 )

Your bore & stroke size is 57.3mm x 57.8mm and CR is 9.5 : 1 and desireCR is 10.5 :1 then

= 2.3 x 1 1
[ ----------- - ----------- ]
( 9.5 -1 ) ( 10.5 -1 )

= 2.3 x 1 1
[ --------- - -------- ]
8.5 9.5

= 2.3 X [ 0.1176 - 0.1052 ]

= 2.3 x 0.0124

= 0.02852 inches

= 0.724408 mm

You need to remove 0.7244 mm precisely from your head.

Will post photo later.

=
Hi Finetuning,
Nice that you had inspired a lot of folks to get their engines grooved. Well I am also in the line.
One clarification on the abovge formula - Why would you need to convert mm - inches and back to mm while you got the stroke already in mm?
You can simply proceed with the calculation with the stroke value entered in mm, which directly gives the desired result in mm.

Ok, for people puzzled about what the ECU is going to do while the engine runs at a lower temperature here is something what I could think of. Might be right or wrong too.
The cooling fans are activated by a signal from the ECU. As well there is a thermostat in the coolant line, which remains closed until temperature reaches a minimum level. So when the engine is already running cool, the need for fan might be avoided - 1 place for fuel saving. Additionally the enriched fuel mixture comes to play only at idle, and in all cases there is a closed loop fuel control through the lambda sensor. After start enrichment is mainly to achive emission requirements at the least time. When the emissions are already met, there would not be a need to enrich for cold idle. At any case the ECU will try to maintain idle at the set level. SO reducing the idle speed with a diagnostic tool will bring out the benefit of grooving at idle.

Since almost all MPFI vehicles are equipped with a knock sensor and a programmed ignition advance mechanism, I wonder what benefit resetting the ECU is going to bring in.

People with grooved MPFI cars please post your experience after lowering the idle speed.

ECU experts please comment.

-Ilango
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Old 30th September 2009, 17:33   #192
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Thumbs up Grooved my Esteem without changing the compression Ratio

Dear Bhpians,

I just wanted to share my experience with regards to grooving.

Why I went for it?

I bought an Esteem 2001 MPFI model a few months back, and I felt the low end torque was pretty low compared to my old vehicle - The Zen 99 model. Once, the rpm increases, it simply races away. But, at low end, the torque was pathetic. I couldn't climb an incline in first gear at low rpms without the aid of clutch. So, I started researching on improving low end torque, and finally saw this thread.

How I did it?

I'm from Kochi, and the first workshop that came to my mind was Autoteam, because the management there is driven by tech savy people. I emailed them through their contact page regarding this thread and Somender's website, and their tech savy director - Rajan replied back to me after a few days saying this can be done. But he didn't recommend increasing the compression ratio of the engine, as he said it's done more on rally cars and for people who need long life for engines, increasing the compression ratio is not the best option. Since, I was a bit concerned about the life of engine, I went for the "groove only" option.

Also, called up Somender to know, whether this is fine. He told me that if the mechanic is not confident enough, then just grooving should be fine. He mentioned that I may not feel a great increase in power, but I would definitely get better performance at low rpms.

So, Autoteam performed this mod for me.

Please note that I also upgraded my spark plugs to Iridium IK along with this upgrade. So, that may also have an affect on the performance difference.

Did it work

The answer is a big YES! .

I instantly got the feel of low rpm torque, the instant I rolled the car from the workshop. I was able to glide through the inclines at the workshop without pumping up the rpm which was a nice feel to have. Another thing I noticed after grooving is that water was getting sprinkled from the exhaust at idle. ( May be due to complete combustion. But, I'm not 100% sure about it ). It could also have to do with the timing adjustment of the engine.

How much did it cost me?

It didn't cost me much since, I had to do another work on the groove where spark plug is attached ( not the somender's groove.). Spark plug was not attached tightly and it caused missing. So, I had to redo the groove over there. So, since the head already had to be opened, I didn't have to do anything extra apart from just filing the head with a triangular file. This job was done by the director of Autoteam himself. ( Man, he is a very technically passionate person, even after getting into the managerial role ). Once the groove was done, the mechanics in Autoteam carefully adjusted the valves, set the timing, replaced the spark plugs with Iridium IK and started the engine successfully on first attempt. The autoteam people were all very cooperative.

The total bill for me for the following jobs

1) 85,000 km service
2) Iridium Spark Plug - ( Costs around Rs. 2600/- )
3) Silencer Welding
4) Timing Belt Change and Tensioner Change ( Around Rs. 2000/- ) [ Since, my engine was nearing 1 lakh kms ]
5) Spark Plug Groove ( not Somender groove ) work using lathe ( Which also needed the head to be removed and gaskets to be changed )
6) Finally Somender's groove

just costed me Rs. Rs. 11,000/-

And all this wouldn't have been possible without team-bhp members like finetuning, who shared his experience over here. My sincere thanks to Somender who invented this technology as well.

Between, this is my first post on team-bhp. Thank you moderators for approving my statement of purpose on 3rd attempt. I've been a follower of team-bhp for years, but got the membership only now. It feels great to be part of this community.

Kind Regards,
Amal

Last edited by Jaggu : 25th October 2010 at 20:01.
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Old 27th October 2009, 23:09   #193
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Dear Team,

I just wanted to give you an update regarding the change in mileage after doing the grooving. Eventhough marginal, there is certainly an increase in mileage.

Earlier, I used to get 400 to 430 kms ( per 48 liters of LPG ). Now, I'm consistently getting above 480 kms ( per 48 liters of LPG ). I've done around 3 refills after the grooving. So, the mileage increase is around 14%. But again, that could be due to the combined effect of

1) Grooving
2) Iridium Sparks
3) Engine timing adjustment.

The low end torque has improved a lot. Now, I'm able to climb the daily inclines in my neighborhood without touching the clutch.

Regards,
Amal
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Old 28th June 2013, 10:52   #194
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Default Innova G4 - Somender's Grooves for 3K and 85K on the odo

There are several posts on the longer term ownership of the Innova and i would not talk much about the ownership experience in this post. However i would want to articulate the accessories and mods done to my Innova G4 (D4D). Mods, while I thought this was the most appropriate section, please help me move it to the right one if it is not.

I used to ride an Accent GLE up until early 2007. It was a great car and met all my requirements. However, we had a new addition in our family, my second son and soon real estate within the car was a challenge. After a little looking around there were three options the Safari, Scorpio and the Innova. Safari did not meet my needs from a seating perspective. Scorpio was too jeep like (my personal opinion). Although I did not quite like the looks of the Innova, I was quite impressed with its car like interiors and practicality. I bought one home in May 2007. It has done 85000 kms since then and still going strong.

Accessories: I went in for the G4 model with addition of alloys (aura the only ones available then), body graphics, door beadings, rear spoiler, Toyota music system and a cobra auto lock. In a short span of time I got 3M sun films for the sides (RE35) and RE 70 for the front. Has been an excellent choice since then. Stock headlamps were inadequate and I upgraded them to 100/90 in addition to fog lamps. With the addition of the sun film in the windscreen, I realized the brightness of my headlamps were not perceived effectively from inside the car. So upgraded them to 130/90. Although bright, they started fading my reflectors from within. So finally changed by headlights to 6000K Philips hid and the fogs to 4300K P8. While the P8 continues to be an awesome fitment, the Philips lasted only for a couple of years. Finally got them changed to P8 4300K. I must admit, these are probably the best hid lights I have seen so far. I also changed my alloys to Neo after about 50K kms and changed the stock bridge stones to Michelins XM1+. Terrific tyres and strongly recommended.

Performance mods: In addition to these accessories, I changed my air filter to KnN and added a tunit kit about 3 years back. There has been a significant difference in the way the engine sounded and drove. I also changed to full synthetic oil. The lower end torque had gone up, the engine lot more responsive and the acceleration lot more linear. Soon, I felt the need for a better driving dynamics and comfort. I get the ultraracing stabilizations bars fitted about 3 years back. I would recommend these for every large vehicle. The rocking has reduced considerably and I feel cornering has improved significantly.

Couple of months back I met Mr. Somender and decided to get his groves done on my car. Left behind my car with him for a week in Mysore and eagerly awaited the following weekend to collect the car. Post the modification, the car seems to be transformed. Lower end torque has again gone up (I would say considerably), although I have not quantified it yet. With AC on and 4 people in the car, the vehicle pulls on 3rd gear below 30kmph and I change to 4th at 40kmph and the vehicle still seems to pull effortlessly. The engine at idle is extremely quiet and equally quite at cruising speeds 60-80kmph. You can barely hear the engine growl at this speed. I read somewhere that diesel engine oil turns black after just 10-20 kms of driving. I have done more than 3000 kms and the engine oil is still the same color as it was new. This clearly indicates that there is more efficient combustion happening and little to no carbon residues. I am thoroughly enjoying my modified Innova and I would strongly recommend it to everyone who owns one. Ofcourse this would void warrantly.
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Old 28th June 2013, 16:17   #195
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Default Re: Innova G4 - Somender's Grooves for 3K and 85K on the odo

Congrats on the jobs done, but please post some pictures of your ride.
BTW, what is a "tunit kit" ?
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