[Absar]

hi finetuning. I still haven't done grooving on my ikon. Still the search for a good mechanic hasnt been successful. Oh yeah i did get the recommendation of Elektra automobiles, but that place is for performance mods and they'll charge high as well as its located way way far away for me. Perhaps someone in Chennai who has done grooving could recommend me the same mechanic if successful or could help me on getting a good mechanic?

-Absar

[finetuning]

Hi all,

Again grooved another Esteem of my friend......this car was having FE issues in LPG as well as petrol.....car is now very peppy & smooth...idling is really smooth....this friend will be travelling 800Km so he will have excellent test of his modified car....Engine temp is down by 8 to 10% as per temperature gauge.....FE not tested yet but will soon come to comclusion.....

Enjoy.....

[swathyd]

I will ask people who has done grooving in their engines to sent the pics of the entire process.

[TURBOSAM]

hi kaizer !
can u please p.m. me mr. sominder singh's adress, email etc.
there is a lot more to learn in i.c. engines i want to learn through one of the sources.
thanks a lot

Originally Posted by Kaizer Sozay

Hey what was the difference in FE that your friend got out of his Zen.
Is it an MPFI or carb?
Also any update on the pics from his workshop.
With petrol costing me a fortune this seems to be worth trying out.

[TURBOSAM]

am planning to groove my 280000+km nov 86 m800 .
how should i go about it !
is more the better in grooves?
how long ,how deep and how many grooves per cylinder?
what should be their included angle between them if more is better >
the compression ratio should be including the volume added by the grooves or not ?
kindly advice.

[BUSA]

Turbogsam - I think he has mentioned what to do in this thread or another.

Anyways here goes.
Here is what you need to do...
1)Open Engine head...
2)Take head to machine shop & remove just 1 mm precisely from head surface...
3)Clean head surface & mark boundaries with head gasket as shown else in this thread....
4)With the help of a small trianguler file start making groove pointed towards spark plug area...grooves must be pointed at both end.....width may be 2to 3 mm & 2 to 3 mm deep.....end of groove on flat head surface must be few mm away from marked surface.....
5)Head to be fitted &if needed can change timing belt.....
6)If yours mpfi car then need to open negative battery terminal during such work.....
7)If everything is fine then its ready to roar......feel the difference at low as well as at high end....

[diabloo]

Why don't the manufacturer do this while manufacturing???

[TURBOSAM]

thanks a lot BUSA .
as am gonna do it myself its going to take longer time till i get some spare time .
but ill come back soon with the positive reports!

Originally Posted by BUSA

Turbogsam - I think he has mentioned what to do in this thread or another.

Anyways here goes.
Here is what you need to do...
1)Open Engine head...
2)Take head to machine shop & remove just 1 mm precisely from head surface...
3)Clean head surface & mark boundaries with head gasket as shown else in this thread....
4)With the help of a small trianguler file start making groove pointed towards spark plug area...grooves must be pointed at both end.....width may be 2to 3 mm & 2 to 3 mm deep.....end of groove on flat head surface must be few mm away from marked surface.....
5)Head to be fitted &if needed can change timing belt.....
6)If yours mpfi car then need to open negative battery terminal during such work.....
7)If everything is fine then its ready to roar......feel the difference at low as well as at high end....

[finetuning]

Hi TURBOSAM,

Sorry for late reply..its good news that you are thinking of grooving..few points I want to add..

1)Head surface must be extremely flat after grinding.What machine operator do is they rub some abrasives on head surface after removing head from machine on a long truck head to remove grinding(milling) imperfections.This leads to uneven surface.So this must be avoided.This job is done by two persons holding head from each end & rubbing it on another long truck(lorry) head.

2)Grooves must be pointed.I have seen grooves done by machines but they are not pointed & I think they dont pass on desired benefits.It must be pointed at both ends and preferably done with small 10cm trianguler file.Triaguler Shape of file gives nice pointed cut needed for best result.

3)So far I tried only single groove per cylinder and it worked best.I grooved pulsar 150 and fiero f2 with single grooves and they are working excellent.There is no end to experimentation but we need time & resources.I have seen many people in doing 3 grooves per cylinder with different intentions.I dont know how they are working.As per Mr.Singh a single groove is just sufficient for maximum benefits.

4)Grooves promots turbulance inside cylinder when its approaching TDC in compressin stroke.When air fuel volume is compressed,grooves promots a jet of hot streams of air fuel mixture with too high velocity which encompasses entire mass of mixture making air & fuel well mixed.This highly turbulant mixture enhances combustion process.Squish pads are designed to work this way.Doing grooves on squish area further enhances its benefits.Highly turbulant air & fuel particles are excellent for combustion which results in total burning of every drop of fuel resulting in lesser pollution & increased FE apart from excellent drivability.

If you need any help do not hesitate to ask.All the best for grooving.

[dustDevil]

If it makes the flame propogation and hence the combustion faster... why doesn't it require a change in ignition timing? And if the combustion process is quickened... shouldn't it be an advantage for high revving?
Faster combustion = more combustion cycles per unit time??
Will a groove in the combustion chamber greatly affect the flow into and from the cylinder to the ports?

[finetuning]

Hi dustdevil,

I think Grooves doesn't promotes faster flame propagation.In fact too fast flame is not good from efficient combustion point of view.It promotes total burning of fuel by turbulence....now during compression stroke air fuel mass is compressed and rushed into squish pad area where there is tight clearance between top of piston & squish pad.Bcz of grooves they gives jet stream of mixture when piston reaches TDC and starts moving down after spark plug fires.This air fuel mixture that takes part in combustion is different due to grooves.Its very turbulent,having higher kinetic velocities.This mixture burns very well as indicated by rise in torque & reduction in emission.

Increasing ignition timing is good for any mods without getting knock or pinging.Grooving is beneficial for high reving application too as experienced by many racers.I think with grooves we need to take care of inlet as well as exhaust port setting.

Increased combustion do result in faster excavation which we can take care of by increasing exhaust valve setting.

[dustDevil]

@finetuning
Should work fine without readjusting the port/valve timings!??
anyway thanks!

[finetuning]

Hi all,

Recently it was time for PUC as usual.Casually I obtained small green laminated card showing my puc readings looking at the figure I was wondering why so much difference?

My carburetor was having slow jet problem and idling was not steady in petrol mode.But it was rectified and there after puc reading were taken.I used to get this readings in lpg mode.

Carbon monoxide CO = 0.038

Hydro Carbon HC = 48

PUC guy told me his machine is unable to detect exhaust so please increase acceleration.

I m reaping benefits of grooving & boron treatments in best way.

[NSF]

Hi all

Just got ny lancer grooved from Mr Somender singh at Misore.
The engine has become smooth.As for the performance part I didnt feel any differnce .Will ve to drive a stock Lancer and check.

[im_srini]

Hi guys, do you have to "shave" the head for "grooving" ? But that's also what you do to increase compression right ? From what I know, to bump up compression, about 0.1 mm or so is removed from the head. Removing 1 mm is 10 times more, won't it like increase compression like crazy ? Can the perceived benefits of "grooving" simply be explained by increased compression ? Has anybody tried grooving without shaving the head ?

If I have a 4-valve head, with the plug in the middle, will I still see any benefits by grooving ? Has anybody tried "grooving" in Chennai ? I meant the mechanical kind