My Grooved Esteem FE is 14.5 Kmpl

rohitbagai · 4th September 2006, 01:14

Thanks kaizer_sozay,
Any one here knows who can do it in Delhi?

finetuning · 4th September 2006, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

Can you let me know how you are calculating the new compression ratio. I am planning to inc the comp on my OHC and need to know how much material to remove and its effect on the compression.

There is formula by which we can come to know how much metal to remove form engine head.......we need to know the Engine Bore & stroke size in inches....

Consider Stock compression ratio ar Ct and desired compresson ration as Cd & engine stoke as Es

Mill Amount = Es* 1 1
{[----- -- ----- }] Ct-1 Cd-1

My Esteem has stoke size of 2.97 Inches......

Mill Amount = 2.97 * {[ 1 1
----- -- ----- ]}
9-1 10-1
= 2.97 1 1
{[---- -- ---- ]}
8 9

= 2.97 {0.125-0.111}

=2.97 * 0.014

= 0.04158 inches

= 1.056 mm

So I shaved 1 mm to get compression of 10:1 frm 9:1........

Enjoy...............

amit mohan · 4th September 2006, 20:04

Hi guys,

I am confused ? if the ECM is going to push more fuel, when the car runs cooler , in a MPFI engine then dont you think that we shud have Kaizer(the brave one) check his fuel efficiency before anyone goes ahead? Although as per his post he does feel improvement.

Kaizer, sir please clarify so that I may go ahead on my OHC

amit mohan · 4th September 2006, 20:07

Thanx finetuning for the calculation of the ratios and milling.

Kaizer Sozay · 4th September 2006, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit mohan

Hi guys,

I am confused ? if the ECM is going to push more fuel, when the car runs cooler , in a MPFI engine then dont you think that we shud have Kaizer(the brave one) check his fuel efficiency before anyone goes ahead? Although as per his post he does feel improvement.

Kaizer, sir please clarify so that I may go ahead on my OHC

Ok FE after 1 tank full & belive me it was with a lot of crazy driving with Ac on is 11KMPH..
Now the rest up to you. but i feel if i go back to my earlier driving with a light foot it definetly should increase. Also one tankfull is not a proper indication of FE.
I will be doing a long highway run next week & that should be able to give me a better picutre of FE.

Kaizer Sozay · 6th September 2006, 23:31

Hi Please find the pics of the Process.

1) The head after it was opened the black colour is on account of the carbon deposit's

2) The head being shaved by 0.5 mm on a surface grinding machine.

3) The head after being shaved by 0.5mm on the surface grinder

4) The head being polished by 0.2mm so that the total head is shaved off by 0.7mm

5) The head after 8 grooves 2 on each side of the valves and the carbon deposits cleaned

6) An Image of the grooves on one cylinder portion.to give a clearer idea.

speedmiester · 11th November 2006, 00:07

hi people i am interested in getting my engine grooved, does any1 know who can do it in bangalore??

Kaizer Sozay · 11th November 2006, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedmiester

hi people i am interested in getting my engine grooved, does any1 know who can do it in bangalore??

Why dont you just go down to mysore and get it done from the maestro himself.....
details at
www.somender-singh.com

elf · 12th November 2006, 18:34

Hey Kaizer Sozay, finetuning: Since you guys have had the grooving on your heads for a couple of months now, would it be possible for you to post a shortish long term report on the running of the vehicle? Just basic stuff, like fuel efficiency, engine running temperatures, bottom end torque & higher end power differences, joys & sorrows if any?

It would go a long way in clearing doubts / concerns that anybody (me included) might have.

Thanks.

finetuning · 12th November 2006, 22:06

Hi elf,

I had completed almost 8000Km with grooved engine.....I m so happy to say that I m very much benefited....I was so much worried initially as this concept was totally new & even no mechanic has any knwoledge of such thing.....but so many thanks to gentleman Mr. Somender singh to guide me........

After grooving head.....my esteem is like a bomb now....there is so much of torque al low end.....its really so much fun to drive this esteem.....I tested almost everything except top high end as I never got chance to test it on my stock tyres & suspension but I m pretty sure that its too on high side.......engine is very smooth & silent now......I used to drive on 4th gear & leave accelerator.....& car doesnt stops,vibrates or knocks at idle speed on 4th gear......this I tested repeated time.....this is known as "Direct Drive" by Somender Singh......just lock the car in 3rd or 4th & leave the pedal...it will move on.........& when we want to move fast then just press accelerator.....from 20 to 50 upwards is so smooth & fast.......this eliminated frequent gear changing......

I observed my engine temparature dropping by 15%......earlier my car used to show needle midway like other stock car but after grooving it shows only 35% even after very long driving.....reduction in engine temp. improves the useful life of engine.....

Also I observed that car starts much better.........it starts in only one crank early in the morning.....currently I m running on LPG gas & beleive me I m getting 600+ Km for full tank of 45Kg......so getting FE of 13 to 15 in Mumbai city traffic with LPG...this speaks of the benefit I m getting......

My other mods also helping getting best out of my car......like kaizer sozay said that he relearned driving within a span of 72 hours after grooving his zen......same applies to me too.........my driving habit is changed with grooved engine....I now always used to move from 1st to 3rd gear whenever road permits & from 2nd to 4th without any hesitation......alll this helps to improve FE & gives relaxation in city driving.....

So in nutshell its a worth experimenting & if done correctly bound to pass on such benefits....there are thousands of people who had done grooves abroad themselves.....this speaks of the benefit of this technique as well as its simplicity......

Till now no sorrow from my side regarding grooves.....I m just enjoying driving....if anybody want to test my car...most welcome....just PM me.....

Enjoy.....

finetuning · 12th November 2006, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaizer Sozay

A PUC Report in a way vaildates the change in performance of the engine.

I got the PUC done today on a PUC machine called ULTRA-TEC the readings are as follows (Both the readings are from the same machine at the same petrol pump)
Reading ----- Today----- 1 Year Ago
CO: ----- 0.326% Vol -----1.459% Vol
CO2:----- 12.19%vol ------11.49% Vol
HC: ----- 135PPM Vol----- 234PPM Vol
O2: ----- 0.00% Vol -----3.24% Vol
Lamda: ----- 0.982 -----1.113
AFR: ----- 14.43 -----16.36

I do not know what these readouts like Lambda & AFR are but every reading shows a significant Drop
The Permissible limit for CO is 3% The reading now is 1/10th of that All I can gather from this is that the Engine is Much More Enviormentally Friendly.
This is only possible if the combustion process is Complete & there is no Un burnt fuel being thrown out from the exhaust,
Also There is a lot of water being thrown out from the tail pipe.

Can anybody analyse this emission reading after grooves....it shows tremendous reduction in emission....but wish some one explain comparing this with other regular readings.............this seems so unbeleivable to have only 0.3% CO & HC of only 135 ppm.........With grooves we have almost total burn so no carbon.....this might be showing efficient burning of fuel.....

Enjoy....

Mpower · 12th November 2006, 22:44

Stoich AFR is 14.7:1 and this translates to lamda=1.
Since the car is running lean current AFR is 16.36:1 and this is also verified by the new lambda (1.113*14.7 = 16.36)

Since the car is running lean there is excess oxygen to oxidise HC to H2O and CO to CO2 and therefore you see less HC and CO and more CO2.

The O2 reading doesent seem to make sense because you should see more of it now.

finetuning · 12th November 2006, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

Stoich AFR is 14.7:1 and this translates to lamda=1.
Since the car is running lean current AFR is 16.36:1 and this is also verified by the new lambda (1.113*14.7 = 16.36)

Since the car is running lean there is excess oxygen to oxidise HC to H2O and CO to CO2 and therefore you see less HC and CO and more CO2.

The O2 reading doesent seem to make sense because you should see more of it now.

Hi Mpower,

I m confused with above.......for Stoich AFR 14.7:1 shows lambda of 1...now lambda value more then 1 shows excess air hence lean mixture & below 1 indicates rich mixture......He is currently getting lambda of 0.982 compared to 1.112...means his car was running already leaner before grooves but now its showing exact lambda of 1.........infact there is reduction in lambda value from 1.112 to 0.982.....he is running slight rich mixture I think......correct me if I m wrong......

Enjoy.....

elf · 13th November 2006, 01:33

@finetuning: Thanks for taking the time to post. I have your number, shall call you one of these days.

kailashnj · 13th November 2006, 02:03

Finetuning and Kaizer, I am interested in this grooves mod. I am from mumbai and since you guys are also from mumbai, it would be a pleasure to meet you and talk to you about the mod. I have a automatice Esteem MPFi, which I plan to groove. Can you both help me with the mechanic and all the details. I would be grateful to you.

4th September 2006, 01:14	#91
rohitbagai BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 410 Thanked: 259 Times	Thanks kaizer_sozay, Any one here knows who can do it in Delhi?
	() Thanks

4th September 2006, 20:04	#93
amit mohan BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: new delhi Posts: 40 Thanked: Once	Hi guys, I am confused ? if the ECM is going to push more fuel, when the car runs cooler , in a MPFI engine then dont you think that we shud have Kaizer(the brave one) check his fuel efficiency before anyone goes ahead? Although as per his post he does feel improvement. Kaizer, sir please clarify so that I may go ahead on my OHC
	() Thanks

4th September 2006, 20:07	#94
amit mohan BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: new delhi Posts: 40 Thanked: Once	Thanx finetuning for the calculation of the ratios and milling.
	() Thanks

6th September 2006, 23:31	#96
Kaizer Sozay BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 333 Thanked: 5 Times View My Garage	Pics of The Process Hi Please find the pics of the Process. 1) The head after it was opened the black colour is on account of the carbon deposit's 2) The head being shaved by 0.5 mm on a surface grinding machine. 3) The head after being shaved by 0.5mm on the surface grinder 4) The head being polished by 0.2mm so that the total head is shaved off by 0.7mm 5) The head after 8 grooves 2 on each side of the valves and the carbon deposits cleaned 6) An Image of the grooves on one cylinder portion.to give a clearer idea.
	() Thanks

11th November 2006, 00:07	#97
speedmiester Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: bangalore Posts: 2,387 Thanked: 6,631 Times	hi people i am interested in getting my engine grooved, does any1 know who can do it in bangalore??
	() Thanks

12th November 2006, 18:34	#99
elf BANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	Hey Kaizer Sozay, finetuning: Since you guys have had the grooving on your heads for a couple of months now, would it be possible for you to post a shortish long term report on the running of the vehicle? Just basic stuff, like fuel efficiency, engine running temperatures, bottom end torque & higher end power differences, joys & sorrows if any? It would go a long way in clearing doubts / concerns that anybody (me included) might have. Thanks.
	() Thanks

12th November 2006, 22:06	#100
finetuning BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 394 Thanked: 13 Times	Hi elf, I had completed almost 8000Km with grooved engine.....I m so happy to say that I m very much benefited....I was so much worried initially as this concept was totally new & even no mechanic has any knwoledge of such thing.....but so many thanks to gentleman Mr. Somender singh to guide me........ After grooving head.....my esteem is like a bomb now....there is so much of torque al low end.....its really so much fun to drive this esteem.....I tested almost everything except top high end as I never got chance to test it on my stock tyres & suspension but I m pretty sure that its too on high side.......engine is very smooth & silent now......I used to drive on 4th gear & leave accelerator.....& car doesnt stops,vibrates or knocks at idle speed on 4th gear......this I tested repeated time.....this is known as "Direct Drive" by Somender Singh......just lock the car in 3rd or 4th & leave the pedal...it will move on.........& when we want to move fast then just press accelerator.....from 20 to 50 upwards is so smooth & fast.......this eliminated frequent gear changing...... I observed my engine temparature dropping by 15%......earlier my car used to show needle midway like other stock car but after grooving it shows only 35% even after very long driving.....reduction in engine temp. improves the useful life of engine..... Also I observed that car starts much better.........it starts in only one crank early in the morning.....currently I m running on LPG gas & beleive me I m getting 600+ Km for full tank of 45Kg......so getting FE of 13 to 15 in Mumbai city traffic with LPG...this speaks of the benefit I m getting...... My other mods also helping getting best out of my car......like kaizer sozay said that he relearned driving within a span of 72 hours after grooving his zen......same applies to me too.........my driving habit is changed with grooved engine....I now always used to move from 1st to 3rd gear whenever road permits & from 2nd to 4th without any hesitation......alll this helps to improve FE & gives relaxation in city driving..... So in nutshell its a worth experimenting & if done correctly bound to pass on such benefits....there are thousands of people who had done grooves abroad themselves.....this speaks of the benefit of this technique as well as its simplicity...... Till now no sorrow from my side regarding grooves.....I m just enjoying driving....if anybody want to test my car...most welcome....just PM me..... Enjoy..... Last edited by finetuning : 12th November 2006 at 22:09.
	() Thanks

12th November 2006, 22:44	#102
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,730 Times View My Garage	Stoich AFR is 14.7:1 and this translates to lamda=1. Since the car is running lean current AFR is 16.36:1 and this is also verified by the new lambda (1.113*14.7 = 16.36) Since the car is running lean there is excess oxygen to oxidise HC to H2O and CO to CO2 and therefore you see less HC and CO and more CO2. The O2 reading doesent seem to make sense because you should see more of it now.
	() Thanks

13th November 2006, 01:33	#104
elf BANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,039 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	@finetuning: Thanks for taking the time to post. I have your number, shall call you one of these days.
	() Thanks

13th November 2006, 02:03	#105
kailashnj BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 958 Thanked: 375 Times	Finetuning and Kaizer, I am interested in this grooves mod. I am from mumbai and since you guys are also from mumbai, it would be a pleasure to meet you and talk to you about the mod. I have a automatice Esteem MPFi, which I plan to groove. Can you both help me with the mechanic and all the details. I would be grateful to you.
	() Thanks