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Old 12th February 2016, 14:57   #631
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Hi all,

A very newbie question. Is a slipper clutch any boon on this kind of a bike?

If OT, mods please delete /move post.

Neel
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Old 12th February 2016, 15:17   #632
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

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Hi all,

A very newbie question. Is a slipper clutch any boon on this kind of a bike?
Any kind of an electronic or mechanical aid that helps the rider while riding(in terms of safety and comfort) is welcome mate provided the buyer is ready to pay for it as these riding aids costs money. Coming to the Himalayan it is a no frills bike which is built to a cost with minimalist features. As Sid Lal rightly put up saying it is a spartan utility bike which is simple to work on.

To answer your question, Yes a slipper clutch is indeed a boon on this kind of a do it all bike(in short ADV Tourers) as is the Traction Control, Riding Modes, Active Suspension, etc. These features can be found in most of the expensive ADV Tourers and yes they exist for a reason. I think there is enough explanation about advantages of a slipper clutch on KTM Duke 390 thread which you can read. The advantages will more or less remain the same for an ADV Tourer as much as a street fighter. Hope this helps.
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Old 12th February 2016, 15:37   #633
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

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Originally Posted by petrolhead_neel View Post
A very newbie question. Is a slipper clutch any boon on this kind of a bike?
For a road bike with a screamer engine and meant to be always ridden on tarmac, it makes sense. But on a comparatively light ADV bike with a comparatively lazy engine like this, not so much.

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Old 12th February 2016, 15:57   #634
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

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For a road bike with a screamer engine and meant to be always ridden on tarmac, it makes sense. But on a comparatively light ADV bike with a comparatively lazy engine like this, not so much.
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Originally Posted by navin_v8 View Post
To answer your question, Yes a slipper clutch is indeed a boon on this kind of a do it all bike(in short ADV Tourers) as is the Traction Control, Riding Modes, Active Suspension, etc. These features can be found in most of the expensive ADV Tourers and yes they exist for a reason. I think there is enough explanation about advantages of a slipper clutch on KTM Duke 390 thread which you can read. The advantages will more or less remain the same for an ADV Tourer as much as a street fighter. Hope this helps.
Doesn't slipper clutch negate engine braking? I don't know to what extent, as I've never rode a bike with slipper clutch, but wouldn't a slipper clutch cause problems during going downhill on off-road and even normal canyons sections?
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Old 12th February 2016, 16:17   #635
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

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Doesn't slipper clutch negate engine braking? I don't know to what extent, as I've never rode a bike with slipper clutch, but wouldn't a slipper clutch cause problems during going downhill on off-road and even normal canyons sections?
Mate slipper clutch will somewhat but not entirely negate engine braking if you are riding on lower gears while going downhill. It assists while quick shifting from higher to lower gears to prevent rear wheel lock due to sudden gear changes. This is the reason why MotoGP bikes come with slipper clutch as they have to quick shift while dropping gears quickly while taking turns. This prevents the rear wheel from locking while doing high speeds and even moderate speeds of up to 50-80 KMPH.

The technique while coming downhill is to use brakes while shifting to lower gears to reduce the speed and continue.
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Old 14th February 2016, 00:18   #636
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Spot the Himalayan!
http://royalenfield.com/motorcycles/...tthehimalayan/
Himalayan being displayed in various cities!
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Old 14th February 2016, 14:46   #637
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

The RE Brand Store folks told me that the Himalayan is on display today across different malls in Bangalore. It will be available in the showrooms for display and test rides in a weeks time. No official details of pricing as of now.


The new Himalayan based riding gear though has arrived. The Rev'it all season jacket has CE Level 1 protection (missing a back protector though) and retails for Rs 21,999. As you can see it has lots of pockets and appears to be very functional.

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Old 14th February 2016, 15:57   #638
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Yes I saw it on display today ... Near airlines and at ub city - very nice guy showing the bike - I stopped him and he explained the features to me - my car is standing behind 😊Name:  ImageUploadedByTeamBHP1455445508.229566.jpg
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Old 14th February 2016, 16:27   #639
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

Has anyone noticed that the video by RE that showed CS Santosh and the foot peg breaking off part has been silently removed by Royal Enfield! Was seeking too much attention even before the actual launch or media rides, that's why they deleted it I suppose.

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The RE Brand Store folks told me that the Himalayan is on display today across different malls in Bangalore. It will be available in the showrooms for display and test rides in a weeks time. No official details of pricing as of now.
My RE showroom told me something else. He said that the display bikes would arrive sometime in March and test rides will start sometime after that. The option of booking will be there only after the pricing has been declared. Deliveries will take a month or so. Haven't cross checked the information yet with a reliable source. Dunno whether it is because I don't live in a metro city. The scene might be completely different in Kolkata itself, which is a mere 110kms away.

Himalayan, please don't disappoint us!

Neel
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Old 14th February 2016, 17:32   #640
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

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How long have you been in India?
Non Bullet REs:- add Fantabulous (though a scooter) to the above.
The Crusader I think had a Villiers engine.

Regards
Sutripta
Yes, they were Villiers-powered.

How long have I been around...? Not nearly long enough to have witnessed the intro/launch any of those listed above...! But long enough that I can remember vintage Jawa/Yezdi, Lambrettas, and any number of "orphan" models/makes etc, in running condition selling at around scrap metal value (Rs1,500) - I was told by a med student riding one in Vellore that even the mighty RD350's could be had for around Rs5,000 - nobody wanted them, as the mileage was so poor.

Back to rare Enfields: Some years ago now, I had a friend living in Katwaria Saria, Delhi, where in a narrow little back-alley I happened upon another mysterious, rather squarish-looking vintage RE - a two-stroke "EI 200". I was told later that this was actually the mini-Bullet (odd, as it looked a lot less like a Bullet than the Crusader did, so I'm a little skeptical. Perhaps someone out there could confirm this, or share something else about that model?). The owner wanted Rs4,000, and wouldn't bargain (it seemed a lot at the time!), as he planned to take advantage of one of those "trade in anything" deals on a new bike. Probably around the same time, I passed up a 350 Jawa, and referred a friend to the seller instead - who rode it home for Rs8,500...! But I digress.

At the risk of sounding OT (it'll be coming back around shortly, and by then the relevance should be obvious), let me say that in those days, in both places, one could still find a couple of running Crusaders and Fury's around, and I suppose some dozens / hundreds of Silver Plus/Explorer (which had been very popular in Tamil Nadu). The first time I saw an Explorer, it was a derelict, laying on its side near a scrap dealer - I loved the look and started searching for one, eventually purchasing the most clean/complete/original I'd seen, from a Bangy retiree. So within perhaps a year of my arrival in India, I was riding a 13-year-old 1987 Enfield Explorer (you may do the math now), bright red with the original little tail fairing / round bikini fairing-cum-windscreen up front... A neat little bike that would do a screaming 70kmph flat-out (on flat ground, with a tail wind I suppose) - felt fast at that modest speed, being about a 75kg machine. I enjoyed a year or so of lane-diving in Bangalore's rush-hour traffic, and later rode a little more freely on the old Grand Trunk Road that ran through southern A.P.

There was then exactly ONE spare-parts supplier for these remaining in Bangalore's two-wheeler market, and ONE specialist mechanic, too, on the backside of Lal Bagh. The RE showrooms themselves had forgotten them, of course, despite their being likable and quite reliable bikes. With the Fury, these Zundapps (the KS50/KS175 respectively) were unique in having a "lifetime" chromed cylinder bore and alloy "mag" wheels long before anyone else in the market; the Fury added a five-speed and disc brake (as did Euro-version KS50's, which also had liquid cooling; Early in the millenium, these "modern classics" were still commanding high prices in Holland).

Will have to dig up some of these old photos one day. For now, to get firmly back on topic, I'm just hoping that the Himalayan will NOT turn out to be another marginalized and forgotten market flop that was actually a great bike... It would certainly seem to deserve better.

Many of the bikes I've been most attracted to in the years of my Indian experience (the Zundapps, the Hero Honda Sleek, Kinetic GF150, Hyosung Comet, Boxer 150, Unicorn, Pulsar 200NS and most lately my Hero Impulse), turned out to be modest sellers at best (at least the regions I was familiar with), with the least (if any) dealer support... which scares me just a little re: the Himalayan, which I also feel quite attracted to. My only consolation / hope is that the domestic market has changed ("matured"?) quite a lot in recent years. But peruse Indian two-wheeler sites and you'll still find a lot of would-be customers who even now can't seem to wrap their minds around anything too far out of the box or ahead of the curve or "different". Some, understandably, have been earlier burned; others are just closed-minded. RE was right in keeping it relatively conservative, but it's still a bold step for them, and it'll be very interesting to see the market's response.

I also wonder about regional preferences, etc. Up here in Kullu Valley few young men for years wanted anything but a Pulsar, and technically "competing" CBZ/Extreme/Apache/FZ hold extremely small market shares and are an absolute pain re: servicing. Moreover the NS200 has failed in favor of the more conventional P220. In another hill state, Mizoram, by contrast, Karizmas for years were the number one bike with literally probably 50% market share (of ALL bike sales), and lately the new Vespas can be found there in massive quantities at every turn; Whereas I can't remember seeing even one of these Italians on my last, albeit brief, visit to Delhi. The people to whom I passed on my old Enfield Explorer ended up having to take it to Tamil Nadu for servicing, since none of the local mechanics in AP had the expertise or spares available - a couple hours' distance by road and similar landscape and conditions, but a big seller in one place and not the other...?

Bullets had the distinction of indeed being a kind of image-enhancing "dream bike" for Indians everywhere... I suspect the Himalayan, though almost certainly a better bike in a number of ways, will struggle to hold that sort of appeal / image as universally. I suppose it doesn't need to... but I want to know I'm buying something the factory will not disown the memory of a decade from now.

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 14th February 2016 at 17:54.
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Old 14th February 2016, 19:35   #641
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Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post



The new Himalayan based riding gear though has arrived. The Rev'it all season jacket has CE Level 1 protection (missing a back protector though) and retails for Rs 21,999. As you can see it has lots of pockets and appears to be very functional.



.

Anything on those fuel jerry can pricing? Were they also available?
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Old 14th February 2016, 19:40   #642
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

The EI200 was advertised as a mini bullet, in an effort to drum up sales I guess. (Remember Escorts dressing up the Rajdoot as the RD175?) I'll see if I can dig up a picture!

There is/ was an interesting rumour about the Fury:- why it did not have a water cooled engine. Heard that one?

Regards
Sutripta

Last edited by Sutripta : 14th February 2016 at 19:42.
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Old 14th February 2016, 20:42   #643
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

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Originally Posted by sanjaykk View Post
Spot the Himalayan!
http://royalenfield.com/motorcycles/...tthehimalayan/
Himalayan being displayed in various cities!
What a disappointment!
Was hoping to catch a glimpse of the Himalayan in Phoenix Market City mall, Bangalore. Nobody could tell me where the bike will be displayed. There was an mini auto show there with lots of cars and bikes like the Indian being displayed. No traces of the Himalayan though. Waited from 7pm to 8pm, which was the time mentioned in their website.
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Old 15th February 2016, 00:08   #644
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Default re: The Royal Enfield Himalayan, now launched!

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
The EI200 was advertised as a mini bullet, in an effort to drum up sales I guess. (Remember Escorts dressing up the Rajdoot as the RD175?) I'll see if I can dig up a picture!

There is/ was an interesting rumour about the Fury:- why it did not have a water cooled engine. Heard that one?

Regards
Sutripta
RD175, a.k.a Excel-T (rode one in rural Bengal a bit for some months)... only ever saw a single one with the RD labeling, and wondered if it was owner-applied - so you've solved another mystery for me, thank you. Anyway, now that you've reminded me, that Excel-T later morphed into the Rajdoot ACE (entertainingly test ridden), another of my highly preferred, total market-failure bikes (big brakes, great power-to-weight with lots-o-torque, oil injection, nimble handling with 18" wheels, simple design and low maintenance, good FE, and yet totally unloved... oh why, oh why...???).

I'd love to be enlightened re: the Fury... I'd assumed it was cost/complexity for this market (liquid cooling having now come only recently), but you're sounding as though it's more interesting than that...

-Eric

And P.S. "Fantabulous" is just a wonderful name. THAT's a photo I'd like to see...

Last edited by ringoism : 15th February 2016 at 00:14.
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Old 15th February 2016, 01:22   #645
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In the interests of simplicity RE has chosen not to offer EFI. That is fine, but are they also going to offer a factory option/solution for owners who choose to take their bikes to the higher rarified reaches? They should, for they've used Leh in their launch campaign.
I've commented elsewhere on this, but besides cost it was likely a decision in favor of enhanced reliability, for which all the Keihin FI-equipped RE's to date have been notoriously bad, at least here in the Himalayas - that besides the fact that they don't generally run any better than (and sometimes do worse than) the old, carb'd RE's of any era up in the high ranges, and generally get poorer mileage as well. Oh, did I mention that they break down A LOT ("Japanese engineering" notwithstanding)?

Why is FI preferable anyway? 1971 Honda CT Trail 90 actually had a switchable carburetor that compensated for high altitude with the simple pull of a knob on its side. How many times up above 10,000ft. have I wished my subsequent bikes had one of those, and wondered why the idea died forty years ago!

Anyway, the bikes that presently do the best up there are those with some excess power (particularly in the low-end) to begin with, so that even if they're not running quite "right" -whether carb or FI - they still have ample power to get up over the passes. You feel the lack a lot more on the average 350 vs. the 500's, which are a lot more at ease whether they're running perfectly or not. Let's hope the intermediate 410cc likewise provides that extra bit needed. If moreover the pilot (idle) jet has been sized with the idea of providing some leeway in terms of tuning the air-idle bypass screw on the go (the old traditional CI RE approach), that would also prove helpful.

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RE should focus on getting their production models totally sorted and not make scapegoats out of their initial customers while making every effort to shake off their legacy and start anew.
On that point (not unrelated to the above), I am 110% agreed, and reading through the thread, that seems to be a deal-breaker for most, as well as RE's greatest challenge today:

Even if the Himalayan turns out to be the most reliable, trouble-free bike they've ever built, it's going to take awhile for the evidence to be observable, and even longer for them to redeem themselves from the penalty of their past "sins" in this realm. Meanwhile too many would-be customers will remain in a "wait-and-see" mode and sales figures will be lackluster. The Bullets have for years sold on the basis of a kind of sex-appeal (for lack of a better term), one that could tolerate / overlook an awful lot of nonsense. The Himalayan is trying to appeal on wholly different bases. As long as the company has got a strong determination for self-improvement, and can afford to wait for the tide of public perception to shift, things can eventually come around. Hero in comparison saw anemic Impulse sales for a season or two, probably knew there were some good reasons for it that they were unwilling to address (excessive seat height, smallish engine when a more appropriate one existed in-house, horrific high-altitude performance and more than one technical glitch), and pathetically just gave up.

In a more positive historical example, Hyundai (this was in the 1980's/early 90's) once had a bad reputation in the U.S. market as being poorly built, problematic and lacking in service life. But the company largely got their act together, started offering unprecedented 100,000 mile (160,000km), ten year drivetrain warranties, and with improved products and the willingness to stand behind them, eventually improved their image as well. It is certainly possible for RE to do the same. We can only hope.

On a final note, I DO find the lack of a kickstarter concerning for these climates. Many a time, even with a seemingly strong enough battery, a bike (of any brand) seems unwilling to fire on the self-starter, but then starts up readily with a single subsequent kick. Only thing I can think is that the high current draw from the starter motor is reducing the spark intensity in the cylinder. Whatever, I've seen it time and again in cold weather up here on RE's/Pulsars/Dukes and even my own Impulse, and unless RE has taken this into consideration and rectified it, it's going to be a real pain up here.

-Eric

Last edited by ringoism : 15th February 2016 at 01:42.
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