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Old 23rd January 2009, 07:43   #46
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Originally Posted by SuperSyn View Post
They have't even bothered to update their website so it is difficult to compare the specifications.
But so far: Discover's engine+5 speed gearbox+ XCD's chassis+different cosmetics==XCD-135. I guess this is a little better than Munjal Honda's sticker jobs.
Bajaj website is one of the industry worst website. They rarely are on time to update the website.
Are you sure this is Discover's 135cc engine, because the engine is not as powerful as we have in Discover and this is DTS-Si. I think this is just an expansion of the original 125cc engine that debuted in XCD, and hence the output of 10.5 bhp as against 12+ for Discover 135.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 10:04   #47
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Probably they want to test the waters through the CBU. If it generates a decent demand, then may be they will start assembling.
India is a very price sensitive market. Even the so called "well off" will tend to be put off by significant increase in price. Believe me I have a lot of empirical evidence across all segments of the society. I feel that the price drop for the CKD route could have generated a good demand.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 10:32   #48
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Probably they want to test the waters through the CBU. If it generates a decent demand, then may be they will start assembling.
India is a very price sensitive market. Even the so called "well off" will tend to be put off by significant increase in price. Believe me I have a lot of empirical evidence across all segments of the society. I feel that the price drop for the CKD route could have generated a good demand.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 18:24   #49
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Smile Bajaj have lost their way.

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They are saying its a CBU! That's crazy. How much would it cost to assemble it here and save big $$$.
I think the best thing for them would buy twenty baby Ninjas, reverse engineer and make a clone Ninja 250. Someday, they have to 'graduate' and start making bikes like that. CBU or kit assembly from Kawasaki's Taiwanese parts is not going to be competetive in the long term.

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Are you sure this is Discover's 135cc engine, because the engine is not as powerful as we have in Discover and this is DTS-Si. I think this is just an expansion of the original 125cc engine that debuted in XCD, and hence the output of 10.5 bhp as against 12+ for Discover 135.
aaggoswami saar, you are very likely correct! This engine looks like a bored 125cc motor. What are they going to do with Discover then? Least they could have "borrowed" the more powerful motor!

Bizzare.

"New" XCD-135 with weaker engine gets the 5-speed gearbox and is marketed as a 'Sporty Commuter'. Whereas, it is the Discover that has the more powerful engine but is crippled with a 4-speed gearbox!

The company needs a new CEO. Mr. Sridhar has been there for too long. A new personality with fresh ideas is needed.
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Old 23rd January 2009, 18:30   #50
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India is a very price sensitive market. Even the so called "well off" will tend to be put off by significant increase in price. Believe me I have a lot of empirical evidence across all segments of the society. I feel that the price drop for the CKD route could have generated a good demand.
Agree!

I think Bajaj have talked themselves into a corner and are bringing the baby Ninja as a 'token' bike only. To get some headlines and halo. They are not serious about sporty bikes at all!

With the CBU route, they will sell a hundred bikes, then say "lol we told you the market doesn't exist" and call it a day.
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Old 24th January 2009, 17:31   #51
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Agree!

I think Bajaj have talked themselves into a corner and are bringing the baby Ninja as a 'token' bike only.
If Bajaj is only trying to make a statement, i really wonder what it would be worth. We have had providers come in with such token offerings earlier too, but as most would agree, the market character did not change much.

Bajaj has just stepped out of a protracted family disagreement (if I may put it that way) and are faced with probably the worst slump in post liberalisation India. I really wonder whether the time is right for the launch of Ninja.

Please keep in mind, "Buying a Motorcycle" means differently for different people and in different countries. It is usually a function of the prevailing perceptions regarding motorcycles, the income levels, the infrastructure so on and so forth.

Just imagine: You can now buy an R1 in India. Ok!! What will you do with it on Indian roads, in the Indian conditions, and by the way how many R1s are going to sell. Ok it is not meant for volumes, but even then, how many???

If someone comes to India to sell something, it will always be for the sheer numbers!!

Conclusion: Bajaj may be making a bad mistake at a bad time and if the market keeps getting exposed to "superbike misadventures", most other sellers and buyers will develop a cold feet.
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Old 28th January 2009, 23:32   #52
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Frankly I think the Ninja 250 is going to be a fiasco if they have to bring it by CBU . Import duties go against it being priced right , and at elevated prices it doesn't offer all that much hike in performance as it's already detuned to 33PS and could be further detuned for BSIII . And it lacks a twin-spar frame like a modern sportbike as well - the Ninja 250 is a cheap sportbike for the western world , for Indian pockets it's still a bit of an expensive dream .
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Old 29th January 2009, 07:27   #53
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are yaar why all this nonsense of launching new bikes and stuff, bajaj needs to learn a few new words from the dictionary and put them into practice,
1.Quality
2.Reliability

and a few more that i will post as i remember,

well the era of buying pulsars crazily has passed away and people are going back to their senses and have started buying the Honda and HH bikes, which epitomize these words in biking in India, and fooling public with new names and models and tipsy upgrades is all passe' now.

if bajaj honestly learns and practices these two words for real i would be their first customer and Honda and other counter parts would be wiped out of the country.

i am no bajaj hater mates, but i did greatly suffer when i had my V2 P180, alright tell me this how many bajaj bike's silencers are still on the bikes with out the need of repairs or replacements??? compared to the counter parts??? and the engine life of the bike? the quality of bike parts?

well that itself has shown the quality and reliability of these bikes.

so bajaj please learn these words and put them into practice and then may we talk about launching new models.

Last edited by rider60 : 29th January 2009 at 07:30.
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Old 29th January 2009, 08:59   #54
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are yaar why all this nonsense of launching new bikes and stuff, bajaj needs to learn a few new words from the dictionary and put them into practice,
1.Quality
2.Reliability
Well add to that A.S & S. They are the worst in country along with spare parts problem.

What bajaj also needs now is Kawasaki support. Till they had Kawasaki on their side, they produced reliable bikes that are still rated high. Examples are Caliber and Wind. They are the best, most reliable work horses from bajaj. Else every time and everything is messed up with them. The present Bajaj two wheeler we have is fourth in our family and all I can say is the quality has gone donw to rock bottom levels.

Give high quality, reliability and A.S & S., to win or else one day it will cease to exist.

The product line up is now so confusing that it need more than a major overhaul. Completely new products with new chassis and motors. Develop them from scratch and make them proper bikes, not mini bikes like XCD.

We had Caliber which lasted very long with a lot of abuse. The same cannot be said for the present line up.

The offering should be IMO:
1) 100cc FE bike with optional front disc. Box section rear swing arm for reduced longitudnal flex. Improves dynamics a lot.

2) 125cc product agian with sorted out chassis and motor like what original discover was.

3) 150cc pulsar with all issues regarding machine and support from manufacturer sorted out.

4) 180cc with all point of 150cc. This segment does exist as not everyone will go for 200.

5) 200+cc. Make them real sporty machines.

Now Bajaj must realize that what the common person wants is not a sporty commuter, but a reliable modest work horse ( CT100 was one ).
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Old 29th January 2009, 23:28   #55
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aaggoswami i am sorry but cant agree with a few things here, no matter how many issues they resolved mate, their bikes are good for only first 10K kms after that they all become a pain the neck and kind of LIKE makes the owner think "okay i bought this bike spending so much so let me use it till it lasts say one more year till it rusts off completely"

the main and alarming problem is they dont even last in an acceptable condition for 1-2 terms of their counter parts.

and all those rectification are what i call "tipsy improvements just to show off they are doing things!!!!!"

well as for the a.s.s. part let them make bikes that actually last as good as the counter part's and then let us think of the A.s.s., i say this because the honda's and the suzuki's A.S.S. are nothing good to write home about but its the bikes that have lasted and made the name.


No matter the segment that we get from bajaj let them just build bikes like the caliber,4Schampion which have more than 80K Kms on the odo and still running unlike the platinas ct100 which seased with around 30k kms on the odos.

and yes they can surely do with kawasaki on their side once again i guess.

the other awesome bikes from bajaj were the KB100, 4Schampion not the CT100,
Boxer CT and AT were fine to an extent.

Last edited by rider60 : 29th January 2009 at 23:31.
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Old 30th January 2009, 00:13   #56
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1) aaggoswami i am sorry but cant agree with a few things here, no matter how many issues they resolved mate, their bikes are good for only first 10K kms after that they all become a pain the neck and kind of LIKE makes the owner think "okay i bought this bike spending so much so let me use it till it lasts say one more year till it rusts off completely"

the main and alarming problem is they dont even last in an acceptable condition for 1-2 terms of their counter parts.

2) well as for the a.s.s. part let them make bikes that actually last as good as the counter part's and then let us think of the A.s.s., i say this because the honda's and the suzuki's A.S.S. are nothing good to write home about but its the bikes that have lasted and made the name.


3)No matter the segment that we get from bajaj let them just build bikes like the caliber,4Schampion which have more than 80K Kms on the odo and still running unlike the platinas ct100 which seased with around 30k kms on the odos.
and yes they can surely do with kawasaki on their side once again i guess.
1) There is nothing to be sorry, everybody has his independent opinion. The quality of bikes have gone down significantly, that is what the response I am getting from everyone I know. I am shocked at this. Rajiv Bajaj took on the initiative to prove others wrong and so made his independent facility at some other location ( dont remember the name, but it was to prove others that his philoshphy was correct ). And after the initial good results, now things have turned the other way round.

2) I have Suzuki Zeus and infat the dealer experience has been the most positive aspect of the bike apart from good FE. The quality is bad. Less than 10K and two times front fork leakage. Brake hard and front wheels goes haywire. The service center now says " The wheel is bent, we will have to take it to leth ". Earlier they were the same guys to have fixed it without taking the wheel to someone else. But still its better than bajaj and that dealer is quite positive. The same is not the case with Bajaj. I wont hesitate to step in at Suzuki dealership again, but I will try my best to aviod Bajaj. That bad was experience. And they lost a customer as I was very much interested in Discover.

3) They need Kawasaki for this. Without their support Bajaj cannot stand. For some amount of time, they were able to survive and make a bang in the market, but now its proven that Bajaj needs support or else eventually I am sure it will shut down like Girnar did once.
I think I wont be wrong if they let in Kawasaki have more control over entire production line and QC.
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Old 30th January 2009, 04:04   #57
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Bajaj went their own way because they don't want to pay royalties to Kawasaki. And they source parts from the cheapest suppliers in India or China without seemingly any concern for long term quality. No one at Bajaj has heard of one Mr. Deming.

A bike should not turn into junk after ten thousand kilometers or three years (whichever is earlier). The HMSI Unicorn is proof that quality bikes can be made in India with Indian parts. HMSI dealers might not be decent people, but the quality of Unicorn itself is undeniable and unchallenged even after all these years.

HMSI gets away with poor A.S.S. because the products are strong. Bajaj, not so much.

The Bajaj A.S.S. is truly unforgivable. The engineers and accountants might mess it up, but they should still provide good post sales support. It helps in customer retention and positive word of mouth.

Bajaj was riding a wave. Their approach of building flashy but inadeqautely engineered bikes seems to have burnt too many people.

It is back to Munjal Honda and HMSI for the masses, while Yamaha and Suzuki continue to nibble away and grow stronger. You can quote me on this: Trying to win back the customer's trust back with flashy new models is not going to work. दूध का जला...and all that.

Bajaj must launch the largest A.S.S. improvement program in the industry and set new standards. Unfortunately in this industry A.S.S. is seen as a liability and a job suitable only for 'beta' managers and engineers. This culture has to be changed too.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Staff : Abusive language – whether used directly or indirectly - is STRICTLY prohibited on Team-BHP.

Last edited by Technocrat : 30th January 2009 at 17:37. Reason: See note in post
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Old 12th February 2009, 13:48   #58
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Source: Vicky.in | Indian Automobile Blog | Website | Reviews | Pictures | Wallpapers | Download | Test Drive | New Car Launch

Bajaj new low cost Bike Steel with pictures. Is Bajaj losing it??

http://www.vicky.in/straightfrmtheheart/bajaj-low-cost-bike-steel-pictures/

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Old 12th February 2009, 16:10   #59
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if they want the rural market so bad, why don't they just make 5000 buck 50cc mopeds intead?
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Old 16th February 2009, 12:49   #60
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Hey chaps, its Bajaj .
Remember that Indian manufacturers are segmentation kings
So dont be surprised if this is the line up of 6 new bikes in 2009 from Bajaj

cc Model
135 - "sporty king"
137 - "super sporty king"
138.09345 cc - "little more super sporty king"

139 - "Power King"
141.549 - "Explosion King" (because engine bored out to beyond maximum to get extra cc)
Last model for year 2009

Bajaj DTFSI-JKLMNOPQRST - 139.0999999 cc (with high swirl technology which is better than whirl technology of earlier model where gas in engine moves left right AND center instead of LEft right only !!!) Upgraded now to have kill engine switch and super stainless steel side stand. ) JKLM.....T all new technologies added -

J - just in time fuel delivery to carb (saves 13 drops of fuel )
K - KLEEN burn - burns so clean that one can suck the exhaust fumes and still survive
L- New Lovely BUTT technology - extra foam in seat
M- Music Tech - exhaust made with 3 specially designed holes to sound like harley davidson exhaust beat

and so on and so forth till the end of flippin time !
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